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Old 29th November 2016, 21:41   #76
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by samyakmodi View Post

1. Keep calm and put on the hazard lights.
2. Put the car in neutral. Neutral will simply disengage the gears driving the wheels of your car as well as engine.
3. Let your car reduce its speed of its own
4. Once below 60 kmph try pumping your brakes - there are chances they might have cooled down enough to respond now. Keep doing that till the time you are able to stop your car on a kerb.
5. If the brakes do not respond - then try your handbrake but only when your speed has substantially reduced (maybe 40kmph) and while trying it out - do make sure to engage it and disengage it in quick intervals to avoid locking up your rear wheels and going into an involuntary drift. (Caution : use the handbrake only at much lower speeds and while making sure your car is going straight)

Hope this helps
I'm sorry!
I disagree.
The very basic and fundamental thing that is taught while learning to drive a car is to no matter what, never let the car coast in neutral!
Unless there is an upward slope, this procedure takes a lot of time to bring the pace of the car down, and also hope that the road is free of traffic and is long enough so that you can get the car down to your desired speed(without colliding with other road users) so that you could bring the vehicle to a standstill.
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Old 29th November 2016, 21:41   #77
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
Does it have push start?
Yes. Our i20 Active has engine start stop button.
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Old 29th November 2016, 21:47   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dushyanth View Post
I'm sorry!

I disagree.

The very basic and fundamental thing that is taught while learning to drive a car is to no matter what, never let the car coast in neutral!

Unless there is an upward slope, this procedure takes a lot of time to bring the pace of the car down, and also hope that the road is free of traffic and is long enough so that you can get the car down to your desired speed(without colliding with other road users) so that you could bring the vehicle to a standstill.
One should never coast the car in neutral in normal circumstances. Situations where cruise control or accelerator are stuck are not normal.

And I'm sorry I wasn't clear while typing the above post. This method is purely for automatic cars in which cruise control usually is. In the few manual cars where cruise control is present - usually it disengages the moment you press the clutch.

In manual cars engine breaking while releasing the clutch slowly is the best way to slow down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Get in your car. Unlock the steering, but do not start the engine. Turn the steering wheel: the front wheels move, right? Power-assisted-steering cars can be steered without the engine on.

Try a similar experiment with the brake. With the car on a slight slope, steering unlocked (just in case) and engine off, put your foot on the brake hard, and release the handbrake. Control the car's roll with the footbrake. The footbrake works with the engine off.

Please do these tests with plenty of space: obviously I have not driven all the cars in the world: maybe there might be some in existence without these basic failsafe mechanisms. And, as I have said before, the amount of pressure needed on the brake pedal comes as a surprise.


😊 the car can be steered, but needs a lot of muscle. There are chances of steering locking when you switch off the car - and that itself might be another threat. Brakes can be used but you almost have to stand on them. At times they don't and most importantly like I had mentioned - with those high speeds with the cruise control/accelerator stuck - I have serious doubts brakes would help slow down.

I vaguely remember watching a series of national geographic- do or die, where a lady's accelerator pedal was stuck. Here is the link


Last edited by SDP : 29th November 2016 at 22:32. Reason: Merging back to back posts
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Old 29th November 2016, 22:16   #79
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

A very enlightening and relevant thread pertaining to the same topic has been started here:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...dules-ecm.html (How safe are modern Engine Control Modules (ECM)?)

Jeroen
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Old 30th November 2016, 00:36   #80
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dushyanth View Post
I disagree.
The very basic and fundamental thing that is taught while learning to drive a car is to no matter what, never let the car coast in neutral!] ...
Sure! The reasoning behind this is that it reduces control. In this unique situation, you have no control with the gear engaged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samyakmodi View Post
One should never coast the car in neutral in normal circumstances. Situations where cruise control or accelerator are stuck are not normal.
Exactly. In this situation neutral does make sense. It's like stopping the oxygen reaching the fire. At least one is taking the power away from the wheels.
Quote:
😊 the car can be steered, but needs a lot of muscle.
Have you tried a car without power-assisted steering recently? The only time it takes some muscle is when parking it. And if that becomes the problem in a case like this thread: we're winning!

(I rate power-assisted steering as being the least-needed gadged on modern cars: but that's another discussion)
Quote:
There are chances of steering locking when you switch off the car - and that itself might be another threat.
One would have to be very careful, and, yes, we are panicking already!
Quote:
Brakes can be used but you almost have to stand on them.
I keep stressing this as something people should be aware of. The out-of-control runaway is not that common, but drivers should be ready for other failures requiring them to stand on that brake pedal.
Quote:
I have serious doubts brakes would help slow down.
The video says no: not fighting red-lining 175hp, at least. That's interesting.
Quote:
I vaguely remember watching a series of national geographic- do or die, where a lady's accelerator pedal was stuck.
Very interesting. Thanks.

(my only complaint is that it finished before I found out what to do when faced with that Hawaian tsunami! )
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Old 30th November 2016, 03:10   #81
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

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Originally Posted by samyakmodi View Post
�� the car can be steered, but needs a lot of muscle. There are chances of steering locking when you switch off the car - and that itself might be another threat. Brakes can be used but you almost have to stand on them.
This is true - even in my dzire, it was very very hard for me to turn the steering or press the brake when the car was off. I suppose it must be the same way for modern day cars.
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Old 30th November 2016, 09:43   #82
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

With advent of technology, majority of the stuff in our vehicles is getting computer controlled. Even the throttle is drive by wire and the power steering is electronically assisted. Although the manufacturers do a rigorous testing, it's prone to failures because it's a computer software after all!

I didn't read the whole thread, so not sure if anyone has posted this before. But here is a video, wherein hackers hacked a car's software/firmware and play with it when it's in motion. Have a look at what can be done remotely:


But after seeing these kinds of possibilities and may be software prone to bugs, I keep thinking we're better with older tech (hydraulic power steering/cable operated accelerator/Manual gearbox).

Thanks!

Last edited by pkulkarni.2106 : 30th November 2016 at 09:45.
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Old 30th November 2016, 10:48   #83
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

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Originally Posted by pkulkarni.2106 View Post
But after seeing these kinds of possibilities and may be software prone to bugs, I keep thinking we're better with older tech (hydraulic power steering/cable operated accelerator/Manual gearbox).
Thanks!
I think that is not taking things far enough. Hydraulics fail, start to leak, cables snap, mechanical linkage freeze up. Itís back to horse and carts surely if we follow your logic!

But then again, even the odd horse will/might not always do what we want to do.
Better stay at home in bed!

Jeroen
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Old 30th November 2016, 12:38   #84
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

After reading this thread, I checked the Engine start/stop switch on my Swift ZDi. Upon pressing the switch once nothing happens while the car is running. However, keeping the switch pressed for about 3 seconds while the car is running successfully kills the engine. Moreover, even if the car is left rolling in gear, the engine doesnt restart on momentum and helps the car slow down. Surprising, if Skoda doesnt have this safety feature.
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Old 30th November 2016, 12:40   #85
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

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Originally Posted by J.Ravi View Post
Sorry, it is not so. Just now, I tested my son's Hyundai i20 Active 1.4 CRDi SX of November 2015 make. I sat on the driver's seat and my son with the car's key fob on the rear seat. I started the car. He left the car and went inside home. I took i20 Active for a spin around home without the key fob. No problem.

But, our i20 Active did not start, when the key fob was outside the cabin.
Thanks. This was exactly the behaviour that i was expecting and the normal behaviour for most (if not all) cars.
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Old 30th November 2016, 14:58   #86
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

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Originally Posted by aditya79india View Post
Surprising, if Skoda doesnt have this safety feature.
AFAIK, Skoda has this feature too.
To successfully kill the engine, you either hit the Stop/Start button twice in under a second (rapidly) or keep it pressed for 2 seconds.
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Old 30th November 2016, 22:48   #87
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
Wouldn't this depend upon:
1. Is the car FWD or RWD?
2. How is the weight distribution of the car (engine in front or rear)?
3. Handbrake controls which set of wheels?
Hand brakes always control the rear wheels on almost all cars. And no, there is no co-relation with whether the car is fwd or rwd or what the weight distribution is. The fact of the matter is if the rear wheels are locked, they can go left or right because they have very less grip. So, even if the car is slightly out of line, the momentum pulls the car in that direction and the spin begins. And from the transcript of the recording of the accident, I recall it asking for has he tried to use handbrake and then the line went silent.

The weight distribution only decides how much violently the car spins. If it is perfect, you have a balanced car and so the angle it takes in a drift is maintained throughout making it a joy. If you have the wrong weight distribution, the respective side always tries to overdo and you have to correct it either with more throttle or more brakes.

As for the fwd/rwd debate, it is when you want to drift by breaking traction because of extreme high power output from the engine i.e. if you have front wheel drive and you spin up your wheels breaking traction, then you have effectively no steering and the car ploughs straight on into understeer. If it is rwd, then the rear wheels loose control and some steering input is overdone due to lack of grip in the rear tyres to keep it tracking straight which results in oversteer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dushyanth View Post
I'm sorry!
I disagree.
The very basic and fundamental thing that is taught while learning to drive a car is to no matter what, never let the car coast in neutral!
Unless there is an upward slope, this procedure takes a lot of time to bring the pace of the car down, and also hope that the road is free of traffic and is long enough so that you can get the car down to your desired speed(without colliding with other road users) so that you could bring the vehicle to a standstill.
First thing is that we were debating about the crash in which his car was not shifting back into neutral. And by the way, the debate of neutral or not is because of the ghat roads and the temptation to turn off the keys.

When you are driving on a ghat road, people often hold the clutch, put it into neutral and apply the brakes. The brakes cook after sometime and you loose braking (which is the most important part of the car). Hence, they suggest you never to hold clutch frequently, not to shift into neutral and to practice engine braking. Also, if you encounter some emergency situation and you have to accelerate into the nearest exit to avoid mayhem, precious seconds are lost when you try to slot it in gear and then move away. Hence, don't coast in neutral. Also, people have the temptation to turn off the engine if it is in neutral(the next logical step for fuel savers which is entirely wrong). If the engine is turned off, we loose brake and steering assist. The car is still manageable but you need some power. It is not one finger light and people are surprised by that (by the way, it does not need tremendous power like wrestling a man but it needs two hands to turn). The brake too is hard and you may have to push it too hard to even make a difference.

I drive a non-power steering and a non-boosted brake Maruti 800 and I would still argue about whether we need to have power steering at all and the world is speaking about cruise control and rushing towards automation. I recently drove an activa and due to the absence of gears, it was tremendous joy. But I noticed how there was a lack of discipline even in my driving because of lack of any sense of parameters. When I had a bike, I knew the gears and hence I knew the speed I was going and stopped myself from going that extra bit hard. When there was a lack of any sense of speed or braking, I saw a gap and was racing down like in a video game. I often see the same behaviour in gearless scooty drivers.

BOTTOM LINE: The more isolated we are from the mechanical bits and feedback, the lesser educated and more helpless our reactions and driving becomes. So, for that reason, I hate automatic gearboxes because it robs the control from our car. It is solely my view and I do not want an argument on that in this thread.
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Old 1st December 2016, 05:48   #88
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

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Originally Posted by aveemashfaq View Post
I drive a non-power steering and a non-boosted brake Maruti 800 and I would still argue about whether we need to have power steering at all and the world is speaking about cruise control and rushing towards automation.
Your points are valid for a light narrow-tyred car like a M800 but I once tried to steer and park my 1,600 kg Cruze with 205/60/16 tyres without power steering and it is nearly impossible to turn the steering at slow speeds!

Last edited by SDP : 1st December 2016 at 06:48. Reason: fixing quote tag
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Old 1st December 2016, 06:42   #89
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

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Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
Your points are valid for a light narrow-tyred car like a M800 but I once tried to steer and park my 1,600 kg Cruze with 205/60/16 tyres without power steering and it is nearly impossible to turn the steering at slow speeds!
Just imagine the plight of truck drivers without power steering, then. It is a necessary feature to have in my book.
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Old 1st December 2016, 08:25   #90
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia: Cruise Control malfunction! Mumbai-born UK-based driver dead

I don't know when power-assisted steering became common, but it was certainly not there on the cars that I drove in my youth. One thing we learnt was not to turn the wheel when the car is stationary. Not because we couldn't, but because it wears the tyres. Now, with power steering, all that is forgotten.

I inherited my mother's Micra and drove it for a few weeks in UK before coming home to India. For the first day I wondered how an 89-year-old lady had handled the steering when parking. Next day I forgot about it as it became normal. Over five or ten MPH the difference is not noticable. OK, that was a tiny car --- but not all the cars I drove many years back were.

Steering weight in a fast-moving car is not the issue, and hardly seems worth talking about. But, of course, accidentally locking the steering is very much the issue.

Lack of power-assisted braking is certainly an issue. The difference is huge. I don't remember if I ever drove (regularly) a non-assisted car, but I have certainly experienced braking without the engine.

My guess is that the few cars that do not have this feature would have much greater leverage built into the system? Anyway... off-topic I suppose.
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