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Old 1st April 2017, 20:30   #1
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Default Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

30% of DLs in India are Bogus, says Union Road Transport Minister

See Link for full article

Salient Points

DLs to be issued under the umbrella of e-governance, which makes it impossible for a person to have another license from another state/place.

DL to be issued within 3 days of passing the test. This to be made mandatory for all RTOs

DL test to be made compulsory for ALL people. Nobody can skip taking the test.

Cabinet has approved Motor Vehicles amendment (2016) Yesterday.

Read full article:

Link :
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bus...i-2251217.html

Last edited by haria : 1st April 2017 at 20:31.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 00:16   #2
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Default re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

Quote:
Originally Posted by haria View Post

DLs to be issued under the umbrella of e-governance, which makes it impossible for a person to have another license from another state/place.

DL to be issued within 3 days of passing the test. This to be made mandatory for all RTOs.

DL test to be made compulsory for ALL people. Nobody can skip taking the test.
Didn't understand.

Were the above points optional before?
Driving test was mandatory earlier also.

India does not have shortage of laws. The shortfall is in Enforcement of the laws.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 00:48   #3
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Default re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

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Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Driving test was mandatory earlier also.

The shortfall is in Enforcement of the laws.
Ha - You said it. The problem was always in the enforcement.

My colleague has got a DL in 1998 without even going to the RTO. He just signed the application and after a week he got the DL, mind you, he didn't even have a LL. This was in Kolar.

Fast forward to the current times, at least it is mandatory for the person to visit the RTO, if at least for his/her photograph to be taken. So at least some improvement. Even as recent as 2015, another of my team mates could get a DL without giving the test. He went thru a driving school and while he definitely went to the RTO along with his instructor and (of course other applicants), apparently the RTO inspector was hard pressed for time and he just passed the candidate. This was in yeshwantpur RTO.

So, hopefully by the new amendment, there will be some changes to enforce that the tests are NOT skipped and is made mandatory!

With respect to the other points, even though it is illegal, there are many cases where people have multiple DL - many times from different states. Often when the original DL is from another state and the person either wants to add a new class of vehicle, rather than taking the trouble to go to the original state which issued him/her the DL, more often than otherwise, he will just apply for a new license in the state where he is currently residing. I have seen this quite frequently, especially with friends from other states who have now settled/currently employed in Bangalore. Even within one's own city, it was expected to go the original RTO for renewal/etc. I experienced this personally. I had taken my bike license from Yeshwantpur and even though K.R.Puram RTO is closer to my residence (I even produced the proof of residence, etc) , I was asked to go yeshwantpur RTO for renewal. This was in 2015. I heard that it is changed now and within the city, it is now possible to renew the DL from any RTO -at least within the same city. Hopefully by making a pan INDIA one common interlinked system, these things can be streamlined better.

It took my wife almost 20-30 days after passing the test to get the DL by post (This was in 2014), and it was not possible to collect this in person also.
I really don't think it is so complicated process that it takes such a long time! So hopefully by putting a 3 day limit, it sends a good signal to the general public. Earlier it used to take about 45 to 60 days for a passport renewal. Now it is so streamlined that it takes only about 3-4 days. So this also is a step in the right direction.

Last edited by haria : 2nd April 2017 at 01:00.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 09:03   #4
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Default re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

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Originally Posted by haria View Post
Ha - You said it. The problem was always in the enforcement.

My colleague has got a DL in 1998 without even going to the RTO. He just signed the application and after a week he got the DL, mind you, he didn't even have a LL.
I can tell you of instances quite recently (5-6 years back) related to our state RTO's. What is disturbing to me, to read is that the government is now insistent on paperwork/bureaucracy, more than the actual reason why DL's are issued - to verify that the person knows to handle a vehicle.

A neighbour barely could make it out the gate with the car, there too the car would "itch" against the gate or tree before coming out.. she was aged in the upper 50's and got the license first time itself. Shocking? My test on the other hand was to drive and finally reverse parallel park (at 19 I was tested in the most difficult way) and then got the DL, what am I missing here? The RTO was the same. Maybe if the driver's elbows aren't greased the approving inspectors palms may have to be?

Also is this new "study" on 30% licenses in India bogus related to the excuse of linking everything to Aadhar? I think so. I agree that, had the government been strict from the start, taken driving licenses seriously and unified the system pan-India a decade ago, perhaps this day would not have come, assuming this study to be correct. If they know so much why not find and cancel all duplicate licenses? BTW I really hope someone doesn't quote a this party vs that party logic now.

Three-day time to issue DL, no corruption, all fine.. just ensure that people who know how to drive a car, get the DL.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 09:09   #5
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Default re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
Also is this new "study" on 30% licenses in India bogus related to the excuse of linking everything to Aadhar?
Got it in one. And your 50 year old neighbour who couldn't drive is quite likely to have an aadhaar and hence be declared as having a genuine license.

They are looking at genuineness from the "is a valid ID proof" angle rather than the "can this fellow actually drive?" angle, I'm afraid.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 11:04   #6
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Default Re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

Yikes! That is a shocking statistic. Probably why so many institutions don't accept the driving licence as an identity proof.

I agree with linking driving licences to the Aadhar card. It should definitely stop this bogus menace - link to related thread.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 11:30   #7
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Default Re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

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Yikes! That is a shocking statistic. Probably why so many institutions don't accept the driving licence as an identity proof.

I agree with linking driving licences to the Aadhar card. It should definitely stop this bogus menace - link to related thread.
DL is actually widely accepted, GTO. And aadhaar isn't really going to help here much, given that aadhaar cards have been issued to "hanuman ji" and to "pudina s/o biryani" type addresses as a demonstration that the process is fundamentally flawed.

Plus - nilekani is on record in an interview stating that it performs at 92 to 95% - just about a one in twenty failure rate, which is over 60 million people affected at any given time (and randomly 60 million, not the same 60 million each time this is measured).

When he was at Infy and they had come up with any software performing at 92 to 95% their customer would have immediately rejected it or claimed SLA breach damages, that is such an abysmally poor statistic.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 11:41   #8
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Default Re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

What does he mean by 30% are bogus? Which part in India do anyone get a driving license without paying service fee via driving school? If any money is paid beyond the prescribed government fee to RTO, that is termed something else which is also equivalent to bogus!! In that aspect, its not 30%, the real numbers should be close to 90%

Last edited by aargee : 3rd April 2017 at 11:44.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 11:56   #9
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Default Re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

There is something wildly poetic about the Transport Minister saying that an astounding 30% DLs are bogus!

Absolutely not surprising though: I know enough people from certain states where knowing who one's father is gets you a DL even without having visited the RTO.

The role touts play in getting things done at RTO has drastically come down and things do appear more streamlined though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
DL is actually widely accepted, GTO.
Actually, not so in Maharashtra.

Most banks, telecom operators and even RTO do not accept the DL as an ID proof.

I have submitted my DL, say as ID proof in a bank and for my phone connection, in Bangalore but in Pune, they categorically state that the DL is not acceptable.

My Ford dealer did not take the DL as ID/address proof. They all want Aadhar as one form of proof and then a passport/ration card.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 12:39   #10
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Default Re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
DL is actually widely accepted, GTO. And aadhaar isn't really going to help here much, given that aadhaar cards have been issued to "hanuman ji" and to "pudina s/o biryani" type addresses as a demonstration that the process is fundamentally flawed.
I thought of answering this part of your post without getting into the murky world of SLAs and what Nilekani said. If you have seen a recent case you will realize what will now happen to the "Hanuman ji" or "Pudina". It is a horrible state to be in for these fellows. They will realize very soon.

The Hanumanji would have given his biometrics to get that card. In future when this Hanumanji of yours will feel the need to get a real Aadhaar identity he will realize that he can't get one with his biometrics. The system will just not let him to have one. What is the way out? Well none. He will have to go and apply to his school, college and every other conceivable place to register his new name as Hanumanji. Period. Post that if he has energy left he will have to take the standard route of name change to switch back to his old name and then go back to UIDAI with the gazette notification for his name change from Hanumanji to whatever is his new name!

There is also a small matter of new UIDAI law that enables them to sue this person for forgery and deceiving the nation (similar to getting a forged passport) which carries a jail sentence of upto 5 years!

As a matter of fact you are not alone but we have a good few others around this country who sneer at Aadhaar as a project and its success. My only rebuttal to all such naysayers is that there are always armchair critics for everything in the world. Go and ask the world authorities on such projects (and not the UIDAI or any GOI dept) about what they have to say about the Aadhaar project and you will be surprised to hear their 3rd party views.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 13:21   #11
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Default Re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

This statistic is echoed by the police. A cousin of mine got involved in a minor accident some time back, the car being driven by a driver.

The first thing that the cops told us was that if the drivers DL turned out to be fake, we could be in big trouble. According to the cop, 50% of DLs with UP & Bihar addresses are fake. Thankfully, his driver was in the other 50%.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 13:26   #12
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Default Re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

OK - a serious answer, wearing my security and public policy hats at the same time.

Actually - a lot of the hanumanji etc aadhaars were issued using the facility that bypasses biometrics. eg: If someone is blind, or handicapped, he isn't going to have iris scans or fingerprints available.

Biometrics change on a fairly regular basis too - first, they only evolve to be usable when you're about 15, so aadhaar enrolment in schools and even at birth is a waste of time, from a biometric authentication POV.

Things like manual labor, skin rashes etc will ruin your biometrics permanently, or change them so you require a fresh update of your biometrics.

Uniqueness isn't all that easy to identify or deduplicate - especially as just the biometric reading and matching has a known error rate you have to take into account.

And then there's the, quoting Nilekani, "92% performance rate, soon to become 95%" - and that is after some extremely careful / clever sample selection to avoid too many edge cases is what I hear. In other words the actual performance rate is likely to be much more abysmal. Even tier 2 corporate systems have a better performance mandated by SLA - and what sort of SLA do we have, or do merchants relying on aadhaar for validation have? None.

Criticism of aadhaar so far - by recognised experts in the field (several of whom it is my privilege to know) - has so far been brushed aside, or airily papered over in shiny powerpoint presentations that claim a grand success.

By the way, if you find a UK regulator, do ask him or her what happened to their biometric smart card project from some years back. The answer being that they had to shelve the project and then pay quite an astronomical amount to collect the cards and destroy them + the backend data collected in a secure fashion.

Last edited by hserus : 3rd April 2017 at 13:28.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 22:09   #13
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Default Re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

If 30% of DLs in India are fake, what is the percentage of genuinely issued DLs in possession of people who shouldn't be ever allowed to drive? Most driving tests until a few years ago were a joke. I've spoken to people who were asked to simply start a car and take it forward a few meters and stop it to get a DL issued, that is if they didn't pay an agent to get them to sign a few papers and get the "valid" licenses mailed to their houses. Even today, driving tests don't really check how drivers fare in heavy traffic and other challenging conditions which ought to be tested. Then there is the huge majority of lorry drivers who drive slowly on the fast lane who deserve to have their licenses revoked. Finally, there are those who used to be good drivers earlier but can barely drive now due to age and/or disability who should be respectfully asked to cease driving. We need laws and actions to undo the decades of damage already created.
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Old 4th April 2017, 08:42   #14
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Default Re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

Kerala made the driving tests more stringent from April 1st, the major changes being the following:
1) Reducing the height of the iron rods arranged in the shape of 'H' from 5 feet to 2.5 feet.
2) Taking reverse with the aid of side and rear view mirrors alone through the 'H'.
3) Angular parking.
4) Manoeuvring steep gradients in a stop and proceed fashion.

And if a candidate fails three successive tests, he/ she will be allowed to take a fresh tests only after 2 months.

And guess what, no one has turned up for tests at the city RTO for a second day on Monday.

As expected, the driving schools are blaming the infrastructure.
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Old 4th April 2017, 10:18   #15
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Default Re: Gadkari says 30% of driving licences in India are bogus

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Kerala made the driving tests more stringent from April 1st, the major changes being the following: .
I think Kerala's DL tests were always more stringent than its neighbors.
Many of my colleagues who hail from Kerala, have commented on this and have preferred to take their DL from their local address in Bangalore - Reason being - it is so easy to get it here! (in Bangalore) . Of course, one has to pay the so called service charges to a DL school, but still so much easier for many.

Last week, I saw my neighbours Kid (who had got his DL the previous day), struggling to reverse his car on the almost arrow straight street road. He narrowly missed two bikes parked and almost put his car in the rain drain on the side of the roads. I requested him to first practice this before taking the car out on the main roads and never go without taking his dad or some other person who is a driver and calm enough to be a co-passenger who can help. To his credit, he was willing to learn and he also promised that he'll practice this diligently and will not take the car on the busy roads till he gets this right. I also pointed him to our article - "Pics: Accidents in India" and asked him to read it. Hopefully, it'll have a positive impact on this young driver.
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