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Old 27th April 2017, 12:04   #16
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Default Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

I'm all for technology. But this model assumes the apparatus works fine all the time. But if the horn or any other part fails, a driver would falsely think there is no impending danger to speeding, and speed ahead. Suppose this happens when there is actually an oncoming vehicle. The probability of danger increases in this case, unless the system works flawlessly.
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Old 27th April 2017, 12:52   #17
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Default Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

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If vehicles are approaching at high speeds on both ends, the poles make a honking sound to alert the drivers to slow down and cross the bend safely.
Instead, if HP would've put up CCTV & speed radar run by solar power and given a monitor to traffic cops sitting at each end after a few kilometers, it would've solved everything.

Bad cops would be happy making 100 bucks per vehicle, good cops would be happy teaching stupid drivers a lesson by issuing a challan. Tax collected could be used to fund similar other CCTVs across many other sections.

If manned stations were an added cost then the CCTV could just snap a pic of all speeding vehicles and just send it to the nearest traffic police station. But lets not get into actually solving anything but use publicity fund to come up with something that's going to ensure that HP's name gets around in social media for a few days at least.
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Old 27th April 2017, 12:59   #18
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Post Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

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Originally Posted by dZired View Post
Attachment 1633763

HP Lubricants and Leo Burnett India have come together to introduce an innovative warning system for India's national highways that is aimed at minimising chances of an accident due to blind corners. The project has been called Roads that Honk.

Link to Team-BHP News
On a dense road, this system would be continuously honking. Instead an automated traffic light kind of a system would be more beneficial where it would give preference to vehicles going uphill over those going downhill. Yes, a considerable amount of logic would need to be built in to ensure that it does not allow only uphill traffic. In general, if people know and understand the rules of the road, such systems may not be required.

Further, on the video, at around 29 seconds, there is a car that is parked where a truck and a car cross each other. Such situations are many a time the causes of accidents rather than the road by itself.

It would also help safety if such roads are made one way traffic roads. Yes, it would mean additional expenditure, but it may save a lot more lives.
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Old 27th April 2017, 14:04   #19
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Default Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Simply driving safely at proper speeds and taking proper precautions is all that is necessary.

I'm all for any gadget that improves safety, but it is a shame people can't get their own basic act together. There is no excuse at all for collisions at blind corners.
Well thats well said but the fact of the matter remains that we live in a country where more than half of the driving licenses are fudged and that we lack even the basic driving ethics.

That is the prime reason that I find night driving at ghats better as normally people dont break their lanes on the blind corners and one is able to know about a car at a blind turn just by its headlights.
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Old 27th April 2017, 14:13   #20
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Default Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

Lot of people seem to dismiss this new technology. I think that it's a good idea. Useful or not, that time and data can tell. A few years of installation and accident data analysis can tell how this new technology is able to reduce accidents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukhoi30 View Post
Why wouldn't a simple convex mirror work?
It works but not very effective in steep ghat roads which have a high elevation in a hair pin bend. Since the 2 roads on either side of the hair pin bends are at different levels, the mirror loses it's effectiveness.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Simply driving safely at proper speeds and taking proper precautions is all that is necessary.

I'm all for any gadget that improves safety, but it is a shame people can't get their own basic act together. There is no excuse at all for collisions at blind corners.
That is correct. There is no excuse for collisions or accidents anywhere on any road but accidents do happen. People make mistakes. Even on the best roads in countries with proper traffic sense, accidents happen. It's a shame but a fact. We need ideas to eliminate humar error.

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Originally Posted by madhavgpai View Post
And... Honking? Really? They want more honking in this country?
Ideally, we should honk at all blind corners for safety. If we follow this, we will be honking on several blind turns where there is no vehicle on the opposite side. This is unnecessary noise pollution. The device will honk only when it sees 2 vehicles approaching at high speeds on opposite sides of the turn so it is effectively reducing noise pollution while enhancing safety.

Quite possible that the device will go crazy honking on busy ghat roads but there should be a way to calibrate it to avoid that. Current technology is smart enough to solve these problems.
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Old 27th April 2017, 15:39   #21
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Default Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

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Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
Instead, if HP would've put up CCTV & speed radar run by solar power and given a monitor to traffic cops sitting at each end after a few kilometers, it would've solved everything.
Bad cops would be happy making 100 bucks per vehicle, good cops would be happy teaching stupid drivers a lesson by issuing a challan. Tax collected could be used to fund similar other CCTVs across many other sections.
Well, it still wouldn't prevent a collision. The goal with this device is to Prevent a collision rather than fine by detecting a more than usual speed and warn the drivers on both sides. This solution could contribute towards lesser collisions. Imagine the cops trying to monitor several such cameras and then fine them. It's well know that the population of our police force is well under the required numbers for most of the given population in an area. They are just going to be over burdened with more cameras to watch and fine. A technology that could help prevent something is better IMO because - Prevention is better than cure.

Mirrors are not effective in such places at all in my opinion. You need a large mirror and then you need it to be clean to make any sense of what is around the corner, not to forget that it's almost impossible to have the mirror provide any advantage during rains.
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Old 27th April 2017, 20:59   #22
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Default Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

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Originally Posted by anshumandun View Post
That is correct. There is no excuse for collisions or accidents anywhere on any road but accidents do happen. People make mistakes. Even on the best roads in countries with proper traffic sense, accidents happen. It's a shame but a fact. We need ideas to eliminate humar error. ...
That is true: accidents are seldom if ever accidents. They are always somebody's fault or mistake. I appreciate those who have replied to the effect, "yes, but this is India." Yes, we are like this only.

But there are levels. Making a mistake is one thing. Charging into a blind corner is another: it is not a mistaken it is blind stupidity.

I know too that most readers of this thread, T-BHP members, know that. But we can we say this too often: the answers are in education, proper barriers to getting a licence, and law enforcement.

There is something clever in this techie idea, but, even if fully working, it is far from foolproof. Imagine this: driver hears hoot, driver hoots, longer and louder. Battle of the horns, battle of the headlight flashers. Everyone thinks that their horn or headlight actually gives them right of way over the other guy. In that situation, which, again admitting human nature, will happen frequently, accidents will still happen.

I do like the mirror idea. One may have to keep a mirror clean, but you have to keep solar panels and movement sensors clean too. And mirrors are very low-tech with nothing to go wrong.

I'm not sure, but I think a concave mirror will work. It might need the gradient below and above to be roughly equal. And it has to be be positioned so that it will never direct the sun into a drivers face. Oh... high-beam at night. Nothing's perfect!

Disclosure: I have no experience of driving on mountain roads, but plenty of driving on single-lane rural lanes in UK. Steep hills and hairpins too: just not twenty of them in quick succession!
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Old 28th April 2017, 06:59   #23
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Default Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

Having been born and brought up in the hills, I have learnt to drive in the narrow 2 lanes hills and almost everydays chore being driving through hair pin bends, it saddens to me that something like this is required for safely negotiating a hair pin bend in J&K and elsewhere.

Why dont drivers be more vigiliant, stick to their side of the road. We have been doing this here in Sikkim since eternity and I am yet to hear of a collision in a hair pin bend, you wont get anyone overtaking or speeding on bends. I had my fair deal of the holy sad truth last year when I expected the same on my way to Tawang when a couple of vehicles did end up taking wrong lane turns. I guess J& K is the same situation.

Rather than spending money on a technology which may not be fool proof due to inherent electronics, and causes sound pollution why dont the govt police HP etc take initiative to educate safe hill driving, may be reprimand them for offences and better would be to install reflective markers at edge. I see the ghat road here in the video so unmarked. Just that stupid hooter isn't gonna make it safe.

Just my thought.
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Old 28th April 2017, 20:35   #24
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Default Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukhoi30 View Post
Why wouldn't a simple convex mirror work?
Dear Sukhoi30,

Nice idea, but believe this is useful only during the bright daylight. Also, IMO such convex mirrors won't be practically much useful since they will be positioned a bit far (at the roadside) and have a tendency of small imaging, meaning the drivers at large are sure to ignore them. How many of us do observe into those convex mirrors installed in the basements, which indeed we can since we are too slow. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by madhavgpai View Post
Proper rumble strips does get the message across to the driver.
Dear madhavgpai,

I do not really buy the idea of rambling strips or speed breakers either, indeed anywhere (be it highway or the local vicinity). I have seen a lot of accidents due to speed breakers/rambling strips themselves, especially when they come in unexpectedly. It is very much possible a fast vehicle to loose control if such rambling strips go unnoticed.(I can share the pictures) Also, ever noticed how your car (especially the trailing end behaves) while making a turn in speed over a dilapidated patch which is right there on the turn? (the vehicle tends to loose its grip). More so, at times if you act in an impulse to slow down at the sight of a breaker, you yourself might end up as a surprise for the vehicle behind you who is yet to realize as to what made you apply the brake. Further, in our country, there are no norms for any rambling strips/speed breakers (height, length, spacing) which rather act as "car breakers" than barely speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madhavgpai View Post
And... Honking? Really? They want more honking in this country?
Thank you for supporting no honking.

Cheers,
Simmi

Last edited by Nohonking : 28th April 2017 at 20:44.
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Old 28th April 2017, 22:12   #25
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Default Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

There are all sorts of ways of slowing down drivers. Rumble strips can be spaced in such a way that they give a psychological effect which is hard to ignore.

But I find that a blind corner gives a psychological effect that is impossible to ignore. I despair of those for whom very-possible death is no deterrent. I doubt that there is any way to change their behaviour.
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Old 29th April 2017, 00:03   #26
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Default Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

Interesting PR trick from HP. As an engineer and responsible citizen, I appreciate the motive but think it is overdone. Mirrors aren't the perfect solution like many pointed out due to visibility, glare at night from headlights and even foggy situations.

And there is also a chance of false-positive wherein the system doesn't detect a vehicle and the other vehicle tends to believe that the corner is free. This situation though, could happen only after drivers are used to such a system.

Although the best solution is to make the drivers more considerate and responsible, I think technology can be used to augment a driver's decision. The question is on using the right technology. And that is determined by a lot of factors. Assuming that we already have a budget for having radar based system, I think "speed awareness" device is more suitable here. It is widely used abroad to give the driver a good notification and doesn't involve someone monitoring the camera wasting precious human resources.

A picture of one such implementation in the Netherlands
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Source:http://www.lier.be and http://www.trafficandmore.nl

May be to add some Indian ingenuity it would help to also add the position of the incoming vehicle in the road and give a combined feedback about the speed and lane position few meters before the blind curve.

Not only will this be a simple system that is self-sustained and easy to maintain but also let the drivers make the decision on their own.
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Old 29th April 2017, 00:06   #27
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Default Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_MNC_SK View Post
Why dont drivers be more vigiliant, stick to their side of the road. We have been doing this here in Sikkim since eternity and I am yet to hear of a collision in a hair pin bend, you wont get anyone overtaking or speeding on bends. I had my fair deal of the holy sad truth last year when I expected the same on my way to Tawang when a couple of vehicles did end up taking wrong lane turns. I guess J& K is the same situation.
I agree to Dr_MNC_SK's post

According to me, this is a very stupid idea
because

1. We don't do any maintenance of our installed systems, we just fit them and forget them but this system would need regular maintenance.

2. The cost of installation would be too high. After all, HP lubricants is not going to install those for free.

3. If the system breaks down, the people on each side will feel that there is no car there and will continue to speed on.

4. In a country where mugs in a train toilets are tied with chains, this system will be left open to those thieves, although those things are of no use to them, they will surely try to tamper with it.

5. It is the most typical solution for a small problem because if every road user starts to honk on a curve, there would be no need for such a system.

6. Further to the fifth point, people who don't honk or slow down on curves are just going to ignore those honks in the same way as the ignore civic sense.

7. In case of moving traffic, the system will continue to honk and will become a menace.

8. Further to the seventh point, if a particular speed limit is set for the system to honk, a person going below that speed limit will be ignored by the system and the driver on the other side will not be informed.

So, basically it is PR stunt and will do no good for the ghat sections in our country.

With regards,
Shreyas Kumar Agarwal
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Old 29th April 2017, 01:57   #28
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Default Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

We had such indicators in UK, quite a long time ago.

(By the way and off-topic, isn't it curious how Dutch looks incomprehensible to an English speaker, until one works out how it might be pronounced! )
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Old 29th April 2017, 08:25   #29
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Mirrors would do the job, but a sideswipe from one of those overloaded trucks would render them useless. I've seen quite a lot of broken mirrors by the roadside.
The horn contraption works pretty well.
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Old 29th April 2017, 12:10   #30
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Default Re: HPCL: Sound & warning system for blind corners

This is wonderful concept. If this saves some lives, it was well worth the money spent on research and development and hopefully it should. I do hope that this is implemented soon on the other dangerous roads of the country too.
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