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Old 4th May 2007, 10:34   #16
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sorry to hear abt your car but glad to know that you are safe.

do update us when you get the car back from garage.
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Old 4th May 2007, 11:35   #17
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Hey man, sorry to see the damage but glad that you are safe; take it easy in the rains if your view is obstructed by the car in front..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by vezj420 View Post
1100D, u're probably right about the tyres, although I'm not sure WHEN they locked up and for exactly how long I skidded for...
Ikon & wheels locking - sounds familiar; had the same kind of situation in the dry once; felt absolutely helpless the minute the wheels locked and I realized the car was sliding forward & would hit the car in front

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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Let me explain, my regular driving style is that I peer through the car infront & brake before the car infront of me does, so in effect I get extra reaction time incase of a panic braking situation.
Yeah, in my case, I'm extra careful if there is a LCV or truck in front of me, you never know when these guys will brake suddenly
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Originally Posted by Garfield View Post
You mentioned that your brakes were locked.
His wheels locked up, it would have been too late to pump and bring it under control, he barely had time to react...just my opinion
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Old 4th May 2007, 11:47   #18
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hey man its nice that u didnt hurt urself. Brakes r very important dude , even in my car i feel a little hesitant when it comes to breaking.. highspeed braking is very good but low speed braking is too soft n i have no idea why..
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Old 4th May 2007, 11:52   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield View Post
Other thing about ABS. ABS is good for city conditions where the speed is slow usually under 20 K and the brake pedal keeps pushing the pedal automatically, but not fast enough to give you the optimum pressure when it is needed. I have had ABS on my 93 Nissan Maxima and on my 2005 Nissan X trail and trust me it is not worth it when you are travelling at 60 K or higher and you need to brake fast. The best way is that if you have ABS try and break hard, once your wheels lock and you know you are sliding, release the brake pedal and then hit on the brake again and again.

I have done these courses which are a part of my employment but when the time comes to use it you kind of forget it and you end up hitting it for sure but again its nice to know may be some day I would use it.
Looks like the courses you have taken have given you some seriously wrong information. First of all ABS will kick in only when your wheels are about to lock up and that seldom happens at low speeds like 20 kmph on normal roads. ABS is really useful only at higher speeds when it is very difficult to manually pump the pedal to prevent locking of wheels.

Secondly, you say "If you have ABS try and brake hard, once your wheels lock....release the brake pedal and then hit on the brake again and again.". This is exactly what should not be done when you have ABS; you should hit the brake pedal hard and hold the pressure and the pumping will be done automatically by the computer to prevent the wheels from locking. Perhaps you meant "If you do not have ABS....".

Last edited by rks : 4th May 2007 at 11:56.
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Old 4th May 2007, 14:22   #20
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Good to know you're safe.

Just one thing - I couldnt help but notice that you've taken the car to Metro ford. Not the best place in my opinion. Not after what's happened to Shivasuma. Good luck.

Superavi
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Old 4th May 2007, 14:51   #21
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Vez - sorry to hear abt your ding. Good you're unscathed.

Why did the brakes fade? Did the handbrake work at all?
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Old 4th May 2007, 17:03   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rks View Post
Looks like the courses you have taken have given you some seriously wrong information. First of all ABS will kick in only when your wheels are about to lock up and that seldom happens at low speeds like 20 kmph on normal roads. ABS is really useful only at higher speeds when it is very difficult to manually pump the pedal to prevent locking of wheels.

Secondly, you say "If you have ABS try and brake hard, once your wheels lock....release the brake pedal and then hit on the brake again and again.". This is exactly what should not be done when you have ABS; you should hit the brake pedal hard and hold the pressure and the pumping will be done automatically by the computer to prevent the wheels from locking. Perhaps you meant "If you do not have ABS....".
Not sure about the exact time when ABS locks up but my experience with ABS was pretty much 8 months of the year. You realize the moment you are sliding on black ice and your ABS will not do anything thing for you, even the sales dudes admit to that, the only resort is to pump the brakes. I have done a skid avoidance course (Month of January when the roads are nothing but ICE ) where in we are asked to raise our speed to 100K and break hard and it induces skid and then they show you where you started to slip and where you came to a complete stop, then again we do the same thing this time around only to pump again till you stop and I say that i stopped atleast 20 ft before the ABS line. And as for the second part no i did mean "Even if you have ABS"

Now I am sure you have your experiences and I have mine. Thanks for sharing your information.

Garfield
P.S The test cars we used were either a Ford 150 Pick up truck or a Toyoto Land Cruiser, both with ABS and VDC (Never really knew what the VDC did though )
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Old 4th May 2007, 22:23   #23
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I have driven a fair bit on Snow at Chicago and Indianapolis. Infact participated in a demonstration that under slippery condition ABS always makes cars stop faster (non ABS cars being pulse braked by the drivers).
My own cars did not have ABS and though I still used to be faster than all my friends cars with ABS, (but that was more due to higher cornering speeds and differences in bodytypes coupe versus sedans) but their cars used to stop and steer under braking much more convincingly.

Only thing was the jarring brake pedal which was very annoying. But newer ABS cars dont annoy as much.

So I second rks to the last dot.

I am not sure Garfield about your observation, goes directly in contrast to mine.
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Old 5th May 2007, 00:19   #24
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Thanks everyone for ur wishes and concern...

There's a couple of things I had to add/ask: (sorry to break from the ABS discussion guys!)

1) Do Cauvery Ford and Metro Ford have separate body shops? I always thought they had a common body shop in Yeshwantpur...anyways, thanks for whoever suggested that I check with Cauvery for the headlights - I took the guys' claim that no one in BLR has them in stock at face value (stupid I know, but I was busy at the time and had to get off the phone).

2) I'll disclose the final repair cost and what I get outta insurance for this incident (I had switched to Bajaj Alliance in Nov. 06 since they have a cashless facility with Metro Ford)

3) Yes, I've heard bad stories about Metro Ford, BLR but they've always pulled thru for me. Plus they're closer for me than Cauvery!

4) Coming back to braking:
Man, I always thought I had it set in my mind that in emergency braking situations, I'll drop (very quickly) to the lowest gear possible, slam the brakes as close to locking (but not locking) as possible, and, if the road allowed, try to veer quickly to one side to avoid frontal damage.

If I had maybe 1.5 seconds more on the braking distance that day, I MIGHT have been able to pull these off, MAAAYBE...however, as u can see, this was not meant to be...

Viper, u asked why my brakes were faded.....they had been a little low on fluid and the front discs might have had some accumulated dust.
Which is why I said, always keep in mind your brakes' abilities and drive accordingly! And with an Ikon 1.6 that comes with Flair brakes, that's hard to do a lot of times!
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Old 5th May 2007, 00:30   #25
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Sorry to hear about your car, buddy!
But on the bright side, you're safe, and the other guy was understanding.
I hope you get the car back as good as new soon!
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Old 5th May 2007, 12:57   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
V
Another problem with SUV's which no one highlights is that it creates a block in your field of vision especially in heavy traffic. Let me explain, my regular driving style is that I peer through the car infront & brake before the car infront of me does, so in effect I get extra reaction time incase of a panic braking situation.

But with a SUV or a heavy vehicle that is not possible as I can't see through and at times this can be a deciding factor between having a crash & having a near miss. Do keep that in mind in heavy traffic next time, it might just save you from an expensive trip to the workshop.
A very valid point. Even an auto rickshaw poses such a problem. When you do not have a clear line of vision, you really have to expect the goon in front to break all the time. Very sorry to hear about your unfortunate incident, hope that did not affect the other occasion happening at home.
cheers
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Old 5th May 2007, 13:08   #27
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sad to hear about the accident...
my dad's ikon had met with an accident and he required left side headlight ... could not find it in showroom ... finally next to russell market and got it... as u r claiming insurance i think you could not do the same..
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Old 7th May 2007, 10:39   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vezj420 View Post
1) Do Cauvery Ford and Metro Ford have separate body shops? I always thought they had a common body shop in Yeshwantpur...anyways, thanks for whoever suggested that I check with Cauvery for the headlights - I took the guys' claim that no one in BLR has them in stock at face value (stupid I know, but I was busy at the time and had to get off the phone).
That was me, Vezj. Did u check up with them?
Dont know about Metro, but Cauvery has a body shop on their campus (right term??) located on Kanakpura road.

Hope that helps.
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Old 7th May 2007, 11:54   #29
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my two bits here,
everone seems to have discussed pumping brakes, pulsing brakes,prachute brakes and ABCD brakes, forget the technology and just go for distance dudes
you can put Brembos on your car, but the the rain the braing distance will always be greater regarless of whether you lock or dont lock brakes.

the momment it starts pouring down, you have to give a lot more room for stopping.

sorry to hear about the accident man better luck nest time,
but from what you say the scorpio was much faster and stopped earlier,
i wasnt there, but from what i'm reading, the distanc eyou were keeping off the scorpio had a lot to do with it
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Old 7th May 2007, 13:53   #30
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I don't think this has anything to do with tyre quality, abs or any such thing. This is more do to with the state of mind in which we drive our car in city traffic.

We get desperate, and fight for that last inch of space. Most of the time we don't give enough gap with vehicle in front of us. It is these things that get us in such incidents. I have been involved couple of such accidents and both instance were completely avoidable, if the drivers were little patient. But then as some one said, hosur road is a mess. I am pretty sure some one would have jumped infront of that scorpio to cross the road.

BTW, scorpio wouldn't have escaped unhurt from this. The bumper lies almost all the time. Only after removing the rear bumper of scorpio we can be sure of anything.

vezj420, hope the car will be back in shape pretty soon.
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