Swift crash in Mumbai leaves 2 dead

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by rks

I have seen the photos and they are bad. It could be purely the driver's fault and nothing else. But that has to be established, not just assumed away. Obviously performance mods, such as, NOS, will help in getting the car to 140 kmph very quickly, much more quickly than the stock Swift can achieve. That itself might be one contributing factor for an accident, when such a modded car is in the hands of anybody other than a pro -- leave alone a 20-year old.

But then was the design of the car's suspension/brakes/steering or its tyres in tune with such a presumably heavy increase in pickup/top speed? Did these factors contribute to the accident in any way? Surely that ought to be established as an important piece of data in preventing such accidents in future.

To a very large extent this is a (haphazard) 'Westernisation' problem.
Without a clue to the basics, we love to latch on to what the Europeans would do in such a case. How about understanding that these things all follow a logical SEQUENCE of comprehensive development? They are inter-related.

Where is roadways engineering, where is policing and monitoring, where is the public awareness and a host of other requirements? Are huge potholes 'safe' on highways or expressways? Are bullock carts, bicycles and pedestrians and stray cattle 'safe' on highways? And what about tractor trailers or lorries coming the wrong way on a dual carriageway? (NH 1: I guarantee that before you can do 200 kms out of Delhi, you will have encountered some a**hole coming head on toward you on the wrong side of the dual carriageway, flashing his headlamps at you!). The official speed limit on that road is 90 kmph, which means you could be doing a lot of damage. Should every village along the highways have the liberty to build a 'speed-breaker' of their own 'design' on the highway just because they deem it to be a 'sound' solution to something?!

Delhi police routinely put up 'barricades' on main roads without so much as reflective tape on them! You could, theoretically, drive into them at 50 kmph (that's the legal speed limit) at night on the many unlit roads of Delhi. Even at that speed you'd be doing fair damage to your car and to yourself.

We see a crash and we want it 'investigated' the way the most advanced countries might do. We 'blame' manufacturers immediately, rather than ourselves for failing to 'train' our kids, for failing to take a stand against sub-standard infrastructure, for failing to even realize that drunken driving is going to do damage to us and not the manufacturer of the car.
Circumventing the law is considered 'macho', as is driving like an idiot.
Why do so many males want to prove their manhood behind the wheel of an automobile? Are there no other avenues open to them? Who is to teach them?

Something is dreadfully wrong with our line of thinking, or with our 'tolerance' limits.
The sooner we can conform to international standards in true spirit, the better it might be for our offspring.

[v1p3r]

Not going to say anything about the accident. Anyone who drives a Swift at 140 kmph with passengers on a city street is just asking for it. Too bad parents, maybe next time they'll think about where their money's going.

Originally Posted by rks

With the more powerful engine, there could be differences in the suspension set-up, tyres, brakes and so on. Maybe the ground clearance will be lower for the international version? I am not sure, though.

Mr RKS, in a previous post on this thread, you confidently mentioned that the Indian Swift and the international one are different. Why the sudden doubt? Or does your information change with the position of the sun?

Originally Posted by rks

This is a very important piece of information. One thought that that occurs to me is that people often modify a car heavily for improved engine performance, but neglect issues like suspension/steering/brakes/tyres or deal with them in a very unscientific manner.

How are you assuming these things weren't already done to this car? In fact, how are you assuming the car was much faster than normal? A NOS cylinder which may have not been operational? Or was it the K&N filter?

Originally Posted by Venkatesh.C

Such incidents only make me believe that higher bhps is crazy.
NOS and K&N and FFE and what else? Super chargers and so on and so on?
Such things oughta be banned from roads and highways. I say take these cars to a speed bowl and give them a once over.

Please do your bit to ensure every major city has a speedbowl or racetrack, and rest assured, I will do my bit to ban such things from roads and highways.

And to the guy who said his Scorpio is safer than a Santro, lol.

[bmdesai1987]

Please do your bit to ensure every major city has a speedbowl or racetrack, and rest assured, I will do my bit to ban such things from roads and highways.

And to the guy who said his Scorpio is safer than a Santro, lol.

stop poking in each others chests without prior knowledge. knn is not making ur car work like a boing 747

[BUSA]

Sad to know what happened.

Rest in peace. My condolences with the family.

& People which ever car it would be, once it goes sideways no airbags, curtains, ABS can help you. Had it been a Volvo the results would have been quite similar. SO lets end this discussion about it being modded or not.

[kumar2007]

Reasonably good chance that a heavily modded Swift may belong to a T-BHP member. Wonder if this one did?

[humyum]

RIP..and no point blaming the swift for the accident as its one of the best handling cars around and this guy even had fatter rubber which is quite visible from the pics.

[rks]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Mr RKS, in a previous post on this thread, you confidently mentioned that the Indian Swift and the international one are different. Why the sudden doubt? Or does your information change with the position of the sun?

Aren't the two cars different? The international Swift is a more powerful vehicle (100+ BHP), so do you really expect the two to be identical in design? I would be very surprised if that were to be the case. And I've heard that the cars designed for Indian roads have a higher ground clearance. The point I was trying to make was that what holds for the international version need not ncessarily hold for the Indian one and that Suzuki may not be particularly well-informed about (or for that matter, care for) the Indian version.

The joke is that Mumbai police is arresting people for speaking on the mobile phone even if the car is stopped at a signal. But when major accidents like this happen, it does not particularly care about what caused them or whether the vehicles concerned were road-worthy.

[IronWolf]

First off Condolences to the family.

As for the Swift not highway worthy, I dont like/hate the car.. but any car hitting a pole at high speed would be mangled just like the pic.

Lets admit it, most of us love to hit over 120 kmph... and we all know no matter which car we drive or what road it is, including a open highway brings in its share of risks.

Agreed it could have been bad judgment hitting those speeds in the night. However we would never know if it was driver error or something that darted in his way... causing him to lose control.

Either way, we should give him the benefit of the doubt and let him and his friend rest in peace................

[1100D]

Very sad, may their souls rest in peace.

[Ram]

@anupmathur, very well thought out and well articulated !

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Where is roadways engineering, where is policing and monitoring, where is the public awareness and a host of other requirements?

Are huge potholes 'safe' on highways or expressways? Are bullock carts, bicycles and pedestrians and stray cattle 'safe' on highways? And what about tractor trailers or lorries coming the wrong way on a dual carriageway?

Should every village along the highways have the liberty to build a 'speed-breaker' of their own 'design' on the highway just because they deem it to be a 'sound' solution to something?!

Delhi police routinely put up 'barricades' on main roads without so much as reflective tape on them! You could, theoretically, drive into them at 50 kmph (that's the legal speed limit) at night on the many unlit roads of Delhi. Even at that speed you'd be doing fair damage to your car and to yourself.

On a community level, who will blow the whistle, against unlit barricades, illegal speed bumps, accident-prone driving practices? The polemic Ralph Nader would have a hearty laugh.

Originally Posted by anupmathur

... 'blame' manufacturers immediately, rather than ourselves for failing to 'train' our kids, for failing to take a stand against sub-standard infrastructure, for failing to even realize that drunken driving is going to do damage to us and not the manufacturer of the car.

Circumventing the law is considered 'macho', as is driving like an idiot.
Why do so many males want to prove their manhood behind the wheel of an automobile? Are there no other avenues open to them? Who is to teach them?

One malaise that afflicts upper-class Indian society is neglect of the proper education of our youth (and I don't mean throwing money at expensive institutes).

Parents are too busy to spend time with their kids. Where are the parents who discuss principles and ideologies with their kids anymore?
Parents/elders must teach early distaste for vices like substance abuse (smoking, alcohol, gutkha...) and speeding, teaching by example.

Planning well in advance and safe driving practices must be taught by example.

[ggkg]

There is complete absence of safety/hygiene consciousness among us indians, be it regarding automobiles or other things. How many construction workers use helmets? I am yet to see a hotel/restaurant worker using a glove to handle foodstuff. How many tempos carry long metal rods without any warning light?

Problem is we have perfect answers to everything. We also blame 'fate' and take whatever comes.

For instance, villagers put up unscientific speed breakers because they have lost lives/cattle to morons driving like hell through crowded village streets. They come up with the only answer (other than lynch mobs) they could. Why do they lynch drivers? Because they know the rich man will get away by bribing policemen and judges. Can we lynch farmers leaving cattle roaming about on highways? What other roads do they have? It is a vicious cycle. Change has to happen on so many fronts.

I think it will only change gradually, incrementally. We just have to wait. In the meantime, zero tolerance campaigns like those in Mumbai do make temporary difference. But one day some bureaucrats/politician/big businessman's son will be booked and the whole campaign will be quietly buried.

Until then let us be prepared to bury more victims.

[megger]

I refer to speed breakers as OBITUARIES. They invariably come up at a spot when lives are lost.

[esteem_lover]

A terrible accident. But please let us stop judging the driver. He has been judged already. RIP.

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

A terrible accident. But please let us stop judging the driver.

Esteem Lover, we are well past 'judging the driver' (RIP). We are ALL to blame, to some extent or the other. Please read the posts on this page itself and you'll get the idea. Introspection, self-blame, recriminations et all!!

[praveencr85]

May their souls rest in piece.

After this episode everyone will start to blame the kids family for the kids behaviour (even if its not there fault ), the society which is famous for adding extra masala will do the rest to give more pain to them .

May god give the kids families the strength to face the society (fools who make comments) .

It really pains to see the fate of youngsters ending like this . RIP