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Old 6th December 2007, 11:42   #106
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if you read the postings, you can see that the thread DID NOT stop at the Lesson Learnt section. It continued to "What mods can be done to do this safely (for you) next time....again on Public Roads?"...even comparing pace notes of their adventures.

To me it's the same as encouraging speeding on public roads. Sorry, that's my view
Sorry but your views are wrong. When you go for broader tyres, bigger brakes, stiffer suspension you're actually improving your cars dynamics not just at high speeds but at any given speed.

So just bcoz a car has been modified, doesn't mean the driver is reckless......or do you mean to say that any person who chooses to buy a car with ABS and Airbags needs it only bcoz he does high speed driving?

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I'm also an enthusiast like you. But I'm against showing off my driving skills on public roads where another innocent person could get invloved. Even Loeb / Gronholm would agree to that.
Wrong again!!! Nobody is showing off here. We're just making people aware of the things that can go wrong if they do high speeds on public roads.

And if Loeb and Gronholm were so concerned about their "I don't want to hurt nobody" way of thinking. They wouldn't have been rally drivers. Coz the world is rallying has seen drivers, co drivers and even spectators get hurt in the past. It's prob one of the most unpredictable form of motorsport of present time.

U guys need to get out of this frame of thinking. Instead of criticising modifications, try and understand the circumstances under which they are being done. I drive a stock car with upgraded rubber, but i don't look down upon people who modify their cars.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 6th December 2007 at 11:51.
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Old 6th December 2007, 11:55   #107
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Then why do you guys keep saying that 160 on indian roads is not safe? A guy who owns a sports car can go from 160-0 even before an OHC, Baleno goes from 100-0. So how is 160 not a safe speed for him?
Read my post completely man. I never said 160 is safe on Indian Roads, even if your car can handle it. Have a look at accidents in India thread and see for yourself what speeds of even 40kmph can do to Indian build cars. The guy driving the car capable of doing 160 kmph maybe doing 160 but what about the other road users in India. You and your car are not the only entity on the road. So your car may do 160 and have the braking and safety features but the other person you might hit may be driving a M800 or an Indica which have no safety. You maybe saved because of your superior car, but that does not give you the right to drive it like that. Until our people mature we cannot exploit the full potential of
our wheels on Indian roads.

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And if everyone's car is diff, how is high speed driving dangerous? Maybe Mclaren's baleno which has a stiffer suspension and broader tyres can easily handle speeds of over 130kmph. What is anybody learning from your statements on high speed driving?
Maybe no one is learning anything maybe i am bad at driving. One thing ponder over it and then think. HIGH SPEED DRIVING IN CONTROLLED CONDITIONS IS FINE. NOW, HIGH SPEED DRIVING ON "INDIAN" PUBLIC ROADS IS NOT.

So even if you have broader tyres and race suspension you are not allowed to speed on "INDIAN PUBLIC ROADS".

From your posts you seem to try and say that if you have a good car then you can speed and change lanes at hight speeds. I have no argument against that, but the day you are responsible for somebody's death you will understand the gravity.

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You are never gonna experience the exact same driving conditions twice. But reading our experiences will surely help people take precautionary measures when they drive on highways.
You want to learn from experiences like deliberatly changing lanes at high speeds on public roads? If the same was done on a speed track i could have never opened my mouth. Same goes when i see kids doing wheelies on public roads and then discussing how best to do a wheelie on forums.

On my goan license we have this written behind: Driving is a previlege not a right.

Last edited by Spitfire : 6th December 2007 at 11:56.
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Old 6th December 2007, 12:06   #108
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SupremeBaleno had a *****-in-the-mouth experience, which he decided to tell us, hoping to find what exactly was the cause and hope that others would learn something out of it. He could easily have kept quite about the whole thing and the sermon givers would not have had a field day.
I have no issue's with him telling us his experiences. Neither do i have an issue about discussing how best to handle your car. Issue is he tried it on a public road and similiar conditions would be required to have the same effect on our driving. Now how does that help since all of us drive different cars.


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As I see it, this is an enthusiasts forum and many(if not all) members are spirited drivers. So some of us may have such experiences, at times. Everybody commits mistakes. Some try to learn from it. I don't understand some of the people showing a holier-than-thou attitude. SB wasn't looking for any accolades for his escapade, was he?
Deliberate act is not a mistake.

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It is good if everyone stays within his/car's limits, but one may occasionally overstep, in trying to push the envelope. The lessons learnt, is what matters.
Occasionally overstep for what gain man? you are talking about Indian public roads here. Push your envelope on a racetrack not on a public road where the sole earner of a family maybe going back home to his loved ones.

I hate to say this man but supporting a person because you guys think you'll gained my his deliberate action of trying to kill himself and other road users experience is just so desperate.
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Old 6th December 2007, 12:12   #109
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One question to all the folks who say people like me are sermon givers, high ground, etc.

Tell me if the person who tried the manuver (god forbid) met with a horrible accident doing exactly that how many of you would have supported him because you could have learned from his experience. Everyone is bad mouthing the teenage kids who are geeting themselves killed on SBK's why does anyone learn from that. But then what is there to learn. To me it is utter stupidity.

Imagine i go like this - i was doing 100 kmph in my Alto then i saw another car blocking my lane i thought lets see what happens if i swerve voilently. I did it, managed to topple the car and cannot drive for the rest of my life because i am paralysed, along with that i killed one motorcyclist and another pedestrian.

Now guys on the forum next time you do this remember to have bigger 235 profile tyres on your alto, better suspension, have seatbelts, have ABS, and what not then only try it.

I am sure you will call me the MAN.
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Old 6th December 2007, 12:19   #110
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@Shan2nu: You're getting me wrong.

I'm NOT against modifying. I'm ONLY AGAINST speeding on public roads.

If i'm not an enthisiast / spirited driver why would i be looking for K&N and broad tyres / Short shifter....and too for a Bolero?


Why would i drool at a beautifully modified car?
Why would i even watch WRC for that matter?

I never said those who drive modified cars are reckless. Those who drive recklessly on public roads are anyday RECKLESS.

Power comes with great responsibility. Something our Politicians will never understand. Nobody likes them throwing their weight around in public. It's the same with cars.

This is my last post in this thread.

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Old 6th December 2007, 12:26   #111
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Wrong again!!! Nobody is showing off here. We're just making people aware of the things that can go wrong if they do high speeds on public roads.
You tell me of the thousands of members here who think's high speeds on public roads is safe? Knowing that one of the member does a lane change at 130 kmph and you learned from it?

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And if Loeb and Gronholm were so concerned about their "I don't want to hurt nobody" way of thinking. They wouldn't have been rally drivers. Coz the world is rallying has seen drivers, co drivers and even spectators get hurt in the past. It's prob one of the most unpredictable form of motorsport of present time.
They dont rally on Public Roads with traffic on the road.

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U guys need to get out of this frame of thinking. Instead of criticising modifications, try and understand the circumstances under which they are being done. I drive a stock car with upgraded rubber, but i don't look down upon people who modify their cars.
Who criticized modifications?
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Old 6th December 2007, 12:30   #112
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Read my post completely man. I never said 160 is safe on Indian Roads, even if your car can handle it.
Read my post completely as well, i said the same thing.

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Have a look at accidents in India thread and see for yourself what speeds of even 40kmph can do to Indian build cars. The guy driving the car capable of doing 160 kmph maybe doing 160 but what about the other road users in India. You and your car are not the only entity on the road. So your car may do 160 and have the braking and safety features but the other person you might hit may be driving a M800 or an Indica which have no safety. You maybe saved because of your superior car, but that does not give you the right to drive it like that. Until our people mature we cannot exploit the full potential of
our wheels on Indian roads.
Thats the reason why i mentioned the time taken for the car to come to a halt. If you're doing 80 in your pidly M800, need 70 meters to come to a halt and another guy is doing 140 in his sports car and comes to a halt in 60 meters (including reaction time and distance). Who's travelling the greater distance here? What i'm trying to say is that just bcoz you're not doing 3 digit numbers in a small car, doesn't automatically make it safe on the roads.

Quote:
Maybe no one is learning anything maybe i am bad at driving. One thing ponder over it and then think. HIGH SPEED DRIVING IN CONTROLLED CONDITIONS IS FINE. NOW, HIGH SPEED DRIVING ON "INDIAN" PUBLIC ROADS IS NOT.

So even if you have broader tyres and race suspension you are not allowed to speed on "INDIAN PUBLIC ROADS".

From your posts you seem to try and say that if you have a good car then you can speed and change lanes at hight speeds. I have no argument against that, but the day you are responsible for somebody's death you will understand the gravity.
I'm not saying that modifying your car gives you the permission to do high speeds on public roads. I'm just saying that just bcoz a car has been modified, it doesn't automatically make it dangerous.

Quote:
You want to learn from experiences like deliberatly changing lanes at high speeds on public roads? If the same was done on a speed track i could have never opened my mouth. Same goes when i see kids doing wheelies on public roads and then discussing how best to do a wheelie on forums.

On my goan license we have this written behind: Driving is a previlege not a right.
Why not, we all learn from other people's mistakes. Motosport is safer today bcoz they've learnt from thheir mistakes in the past.

Every safety feature you see in your car or even a race car is there bcoz someone in the past got hurt from not being able to benefit from that technology.

ABS wasn't needed until people started crashing due to wheel lock up, traction control wasn't needed until cars started going out of control due to excess power to the wheels.

Even in F1, neck braces, crumple zones and all the other safety feature were added when they found that people were getting hurt.

Unless you've been there and done that, you never know what might happen. So instead of everyone trying it out for themselves, it's better for those who have made a mistake in their past, to help others learn something from their experience.

Speeding on public roads is a mistake we committed but keeping silent about it isn't helping either. Just read some of the posts from members that say how this thread has helped them understand the risks of high speed driving. That was the intention of this whole thread.

Shan2nu
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Old 6th December 2007, 12:39   #113
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Amen to that. Lets end it here. Safe driving everyone.
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Old 6th December 2007, 12:44   #114
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Amen to that. Lets end it here. Safe driving everyone.
Yeah man, safe driving to you as well.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 6th December 2007 at 12:45.
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Old 6th December 2007, 12:44   #115
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post

Every safety feature you see in your car or even a race car is there bcoz someone in the past got hurt from not being able to benefit from that technology.

ABS wasn't needed until people started crashing due to wheel lock up, traction control wasn't needed until cars started going out of control due to excess power to the wheels.

Even in F1, neck braces, crumple zones and all the other safety feature were added when they found that people were getting hurt.

Shan2nu
Ok. THIS IS my last post.

@Shan2nu: If you noticed, ALL these safety features are for YOU who is INSIDE the car.

if you crash into another car at 130kmph all these might save you. But that's not the concern here. What about the other car you crashed into?

I'm signing off from here.

No more last posts.
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Old 6th December 2007, 12:59   #116
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Originally Posted by Spitfire
our small spat has actually helped a lot of people see otherwise.
They would have learnt that without the spat itself - I was pretty clear in my post about how it all happened and how hellish an experience it was. I don't really see any value-addition in the spat.

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Originally Posted by Spitfire
You need to "LEARN" that a quick lane-change at high speeds is a risk
See boss, you might be somebody who knows all the rules, follows each and every rule in the book and the best driver on earth. Since I don't have a way of verifying your driving, I will give you the benefit of doubt there.

But, there might be others who could learn. And if they are in a situation like me (due to whatsoever reason) and the choice is between swerving and braking, maybe this incident will help them. Can we leave this at that and move on ?

The following two posts of yours clearly indicate that you have serious comprehension issues, which prevented you from understanding what I posted in simple English.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire
You want to learn from experiences like deliberatly changing lanes at high speeds on public roads?
When you drive a km on Indian roads, you make a thousand quick mental decisions. This was one of them, not deliberate (ie. not something I had planned to do when I set off from home).
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Originally Posted by Spitfire
Imagine i go like this - i was doing 100 kmph in my Alto then i saw another car blocking my lane i thought lets see what happens if i swerve voilently.
Again, did I say anywhere that I wanted to see what would happen if I swerve ? Had I pre-planned to redline the car? Yes. Had I pre-planned a hi-speed lane-change ? No.

I have no issues with you being preachy, but before that, try to read properly what actually happened. And then let your itchy fingers do the typing.

I agree that doing 130 on a city road was wrong. Period. But one simple thing that you could not comprehend was that the lane change was not a pre-planned act (like the speeding). It was purely circumstantial - the road was clear, I was not expecting to reach those cars so fast and when I did, I abandoned the plan of redlining 3rd gear.

And like Chennai-ites do even in normal driving on that road, the choice was either to brake or to change lanes - I just happened to choose the latter. And at that speed (or due to surface or whatever), it happened to be the wrong choice. A stupid choice actually, given that I have 20-odd years of driving behind me - I should've known better, but as someone said, S**T happens.

This one act was the culprit, not the speeding per se. If I had just braked, I would have overtaken them slowly and gone home. This thread would not have existed and you would not have had the chance to play the role you seem to be having fun playing.
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Old 6th December 2007, 13:23   #117
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I give up man. To each his own. Next time i see someone driving recklessly or redlining his car on a public road i will think that someone somewhere is learning something out of it.

Just dont kill some innocent person, none of you here calling me a preacher or thinks that i am having fun realises the consequences.

About my english, less said the better. For you i may not be able to comprehend english at all, but thats your opinion and most of the other opinions and actions you have mentioned speaks volumes about you.

End of the discussion for me. You can keep learning.

Last edited by Spitfire : 6th December 2007 at 13:34.
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Old 6th December 2007, 14:03   #118
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ROAD RAGE...!!!
Thats what I can see here from 2 able members...
Yes. No doubt it makes one angry when you see someone driving reckless...
And you most of the times get the strong urge to stop him and give him a few pieces of your mind, so he doesn't dare to do it again (at least for sometime to come)...
Both sides having given up, (Or cooled down their engines,) and the smoke waded away,

Dear mods,
PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD... We had enough learning...

Lesson I learnt: Safety of others is as important (or even more important) than my safety while driving...
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Old 6th December 2007, 14:37   #119
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Dear mods,
PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD... We had enough learning...
I suggested the same thing, just before tempers actually flared up to current levels.
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Old 6th December 2007, 14:49   #120
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Locked, cool down guys!
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