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Old 6th December 2007, 01:40   #16
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Originally Posted by eflanker View Post
Hehe Funny.

Myself also settled in India.
A typical migrant Indian in a western country who is a second class citizen doesnt truly integrate with the local society there, for all kinds of reasons, one being viewed as job stealers or just plain outsiders by the local citizens.

Let me add - The trend is now changing in India
A person who migrates to a western country is now considered a loser, as he could not succeed in his own country. There are many successful people in India who have succeded - hence for them there is no need to quit India. Moving out of the country is now becoming thing of inferior people - not superior.

India has given me all the success because I deserved it. So why should i beg a foreign country...........
I agree with the 1st point.A migrant can never be 100% like the locals. Its impossible. Depending on where you live,you are perceived in a different way.

About being considered a loser,that just doesn't make sense.By migrating, you don't become a loser.A person migrates for his/her own reasons,so losing or gaining is circumstantial. Not everyone succeeds in a given country. if that be the case, look at the # of Indians/Chinese/Russians who come to the US. Are all of them losers? a huge chunk of these people have respectable jobs,earning very well. Are they still losers? Nope,I don't think so.
If you don't want to migrate,that's your outlook.Not everyone gets to have a good life by staying in one country all through their respective lives. So if it means packing up and moving,so be it.
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Old 6th December 2007, 02:15   #17
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Originally Posted by eflanker View Post
A person who migrates to a western country is now considered a loser, as he could not succeed in his own country. There are many successful people in India who have succeded - hence for them there is no need to quit India. Moving out of the country is now becoming thing of inferior people - not superior.

India has given me all the success because I deserved it. So why should i beg a foreign country...........
I disagree with these statements. If there are people going out for higher studies (in research, medicine) - do you call them losers? If engineers go to other countries and work on software projects (export for this country), do you call them losers? Or when a company exchanges employees for exposure/knowledge gaining/training, is it converting them to losers?
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Old 6th December 2007, 02:58   #18
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I disagree with these statements. If there are people going out for higher studies (in research, medicine) - do you call them losers? If engineers go to other countries and work on software projects (export for this country), do you call them losers? Or when a company exchanges employees for exposure/knowledge gaining/training, is it converting them to losers?
Sometimes yes. Some people enjoy certain previleges in their own country and then migrate for betterment of their lives. Some people people enjoy education mostly funded by the state/taxpayers to look for higher opportunities outside. In those cases the state does not get anything in return of their investment.

People working for Indian Software companies are earning for a cause thats Indian, our country gets the return by means of taxes, and ultimately brings employment for people of our own country. Infrastructure is built based on the taxes.

In the last few years, there has been a considerable fast paced improvement. I beleive the culture of the developed world will follow soon.

In my case on one christmas eve, my driving license was confiscated by a cop for his computer not having my insurance details, inspite of mine showing him the insurance proof hardcopy. It was a matter that I was looking for a place to eat or a shop to hunt food. All my colleagues had set forth on their respective vacations. I had to spend the entire eve and night without food (which incidentally I forgot to stack up the night before). Atleast in our area, I wouldn't have gone to sleep hungry. Or had to walk back on a cold night. So there is pros and cons of almost everything.

I am situated near Dallas now, and even now I see certain things like slavery to processes which enfuriates me. Manytimes I get to wonder, have people stopped thinking or do they only eat.

We have actually been deprived a lot in our country, but what is to be cheered is the spirit by which we keep on moving despite what and start making workarounds to every problem. India is definitely shining, but not because of the politicians but because of its people, who are mostly unaware, but learning very fast. Just pray they dont copy every damn lifestyle concepts from the developed world.

Last edited by 1100D : 6th December 2007 at 03:05.
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Old 6th December 2007, 03:10   #19
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1100D, the aspect of the country not receiving any benefits through its investments is a valid point.

Let me give you a simple example of my family.My dad got his BE from REC Warrangal,and went to Toronto in 1974 for his MS. He came back to India and had been working in HAL & BPL until he start his own global sourcing firm in Bangalore. My brother came to the US in 1999 for his MS,and I moved here in 2002. We both work for the same biopharmaceutical firm in Houston. We stayed in India until we finished our undergrad.

I agree that we have received our education in place,and we have moved overseas. But that is mainly because our fields of interest had more opportunities in the US/UK. If we had the similar facilities in India, why would we move here? Its a matter of getting what you want,and reaching upto your goal.

Unfortunate for you,the cop messed things up.It must have been hell for you.I totally understand that. Being in a foreign land,things sure work different for us. No other go,but to accept it and make sure we follow every rule/legal aspect to the best possible level.

But deep in our hearts,those living overseas would someday love to go back to India,and live till its time to bid farewell to the world.
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Old 6th December 2007, 03:59   #20
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Let me give you a simple example of my family.My dad got his BE from REC Warrangal,and went to Toronto in 1974 for his MS. He came back to India and had been working in HAL & BPL until he start his own global sourcing firm in Bangalore.
Thats fantastic. In my opinion, as long as we have such people, who overlook the vagaries, we will be shining.

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My brother came to the US in 1999 for his MS,and I moved here in 2002. We both work for the same biopharmaceutical firm in Houston. We stayed in India until we finished our undergrad.

I agree that we have received our education in place,and we have moved overseas. But that is mainly because our fields of interest had more opportunities in the US/UK. If we had the similar facilities in India, why would we move here? Its a matter of getting what you want,and reaching upto your goal.
These cases are different, as it happens to be a flight taken in pursuit of ones own interest in a certain domain. You dont represent the substantial chunk of the migrants who look for opportunities/openings abroad and pounce on them in search of a perceived better lifestyle.

I have seen many of my own friends, chanellise their interest in getting a scholarship for MS. They would look for areas that have openings. Then market themselves saying how much they are interested in that domain and why they are to be chosen by a certain school. Some of these fellows are from the premier institutes in India.

What do you think, are they not looking for the easiest way to go out. Infact, its a blessing that such individuals, that can be termed nothing but losers dont end up in our country.

But unfortunately for us, we as a race are very tolerant and forgiving, lot many of these migrators are looked upon as achievers and when they finally see that they are not being well taken in the foreign land and return, we welcome them with garlands, give them our best jobs, provide them with the biggest previleges.

Last edited by 1100D : 6th December 2007 at 04:04.
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Old 6th December 2007, 11:52   #21
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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post

I have seen many of my own friends, chanellise their interest in getting a scholarship for MS. They would look for areas that have openings. Then market themselves saying how much they are interested in that domain and why they are to be chosen by a certain school. Some of these fellows are from the premier institutes in India.
Couldn't agree more. I know few of my friends who have gone to the US, for MS, not even bothering about the domain or the University.

As for as the infrastructure is concerned, I don't hope for much improvements, unless we get rid of the mentality that prevents us to, go for a Nuclear Deal because it is US, stop and satellite launch because the satellite is from Isreil.
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Old 6th December 2007, 12:54   #22
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There are problems always, India is not US, and its not trying to be also.
But look at the brighter side, we have good roads, good cars now. We didn't have them even 10 years back.

Most of these issues can be tracked back to corruption in administration. We can blame ourselves also for not even trying to change that.

\\hkp
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Old 6th December 2007, 12:58   #23
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@Elito: I can understand the frustration caused by incidents like these but if I have to comment on the Title then I would suggest that ask anyone who had Toured on Indian Roads 10 years back & does so even now & he will tell you that How dull was the scene & in this regard atleast India is Certainly Shining now
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Old 6th December 2007, 14:44   #24
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Hi Everyone,
See we can go about cribbing about India but it doesn't matter. Nobody cares and nobody is bothered. We are to self centred as a society and as a person to actually care about the country and the community.
We, the middle class cribb the most and do the least. We do not vote so we have no right to comment on the politicians. We are the first ones to grease the palms if caught by the police and to bend the rules.
A country or a society is made because of the rules and there adherence.
You go to any developed country abroad. They have huge fines for any rule breakage, that it is easier to follow them. Here I can just pay Rs 200 for a Rs 1100 fine and get away with it.
The traffic situation will only get worse .The Indian traffic is the best way to develop patience.
The India Shining campaign is just a hogwash developed to fool the public.It is practically impossible to change Indians and the way we think.
We are "Ghost of the kicks not listening to talks".
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Old 6th December 2007, 14:48   #25
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Yes, it was hell like situation on Delhi Gurgaon highway yesterday... I traveled 80kms approx Del - GGN - Del... and it took me almost 4 damn hours... 1.5 hrs in the morning.. and 2.5 hrs in the evening!!

And, even today morning... after crossing the Delhi-Gurgaon border.. it took me 45 mins to reach my office in Udyog Vihar!!

I wonder... whether planners have properly taken into account the ever increasing vehicle population on these roads while designing this highway.
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Old 6th December 2007, 14:48   #26
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The thread's name should be changed from India Shining to India Bashing. Everybody are unhappy about something or other. This does not mean that we complain. This is done by us (citizens) and we will do so unless our people are educated and they know the value of time and our politicians do not want it since if people get educated they will not get votes.

Last edited by snaronikar : 6th December 2007 at 14:55.
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Old 6th December 2007, 15:10   #27
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Being very specific about the incident reported, lets remember that there are good samaritans here in India who pull up their sleeves and start directing traffic on their own without any self-interest whatsoever. I don't think that'll happen in the US. If someone does indeed do that in US, he'll probably be arrested !!
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Old 6th December 2007, 15:11   #28
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Elito,

Well I have few words for you. You have created this thread in the street experience.
So why dont we take it as just another street experience. Is that a everyday matter for you to see all sort of these stuff on road.

Best way is to stop using your big cars, small cars. get into public transport. Encourage the use of Metro (for Delhi), local trains (for Mumbai). This would atleast avoid the stressed up situations. Leave a GM, CEO attitude of not wanting to be in general people in public transport.

About India, It will keep shining. It just does not make any difference if you think it is not shining.

Note - I am neither doing any sledging here nor trying to hurt sentiments. Give it a thought. You will see better days.
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Old 6th December 2007, 15:42   #29
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Elito,

Well I have few words for you. You have created this thread in the street experience.
So why dont we take it as just another street experience. Is that a everyday matter for you to see all sort of these stuff on road.

Street experience. This is an everyday experience on Delhi-Gurgaon which is now creeping on to all roads even remotely connected with Gurgaon.

Best way is to stop using your big cars, small cars. get into public transport. Encourage the use of Metro (for Delhi), local trains (for Mumbai). This would atleast avoid the stressed up situations. Leave a GM, CEO attitude of not wanting to be in general people in public transport.

Unfortunately, no metros to Gurgaon upto now. Also no public transport at all. Not even autos and many cabs are willing to go Delhi-Gurgaon and vice versa.

About India, It will keep shining. It just does not make any difference if you think it is not shining.

Note - I am neither doing any sledging here nor trying to hurt sentiments. Give it a thought. You will see better days.
I travel from Delhi-Gurgaon every day and the only feeling you get is of frustration, immense fatigue, and hopelessness that no matter when the expressway gets completed, things will get worse. Can you imagine 2-3 kms continuous jams. Leave one jam, travel for 1 km, and enter another. This goes on till you leave all roads even remotely connected to Gurgaon. While in Gurgaon, negotiate through real big and heavy trucks and buses on all sides alongwith some big, cement mixer trucks cutting through traffic. While in Delhi, negotiate corrupt traffic policemen, vehicles breaking down everywhere, no semblance of any driving etiquettes, and of course a total traffic breakdown. Try to keep your peace through this.

India is definitely shining for the big cats and the VVIPs living in Lutyens zone, who ensure that when they leave for someplace, they leave massive traffic jams in their wake. Is it shining for the millions of people who get by on Rs. 30-50 per day, have no holidays, no water, electricity, roads, and health facilities. India shines in only index-corruption and anarchy.
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Old 6th December 2007, 15:51   #30
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India is definitely shining for the big cats and the VVIPs living in Lutyens zone, who ensure that when they leave for someplace, they leave massive traffic jams in their wake. Is it shining for the millions of people who get by on Rs. 30-50 per day, have no holidays, no water, electricity, roads, and health facilities. India shines in only index-corruption and anarchy.
Rightly said my friend. It shines to nly those who are richer and not the poor and av. middle class people.
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