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Old 2nd January 2013, 07:19   #4861
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

All the Indian T-BHP members here have driving licenses issued by one or the other RTO in India.

Please refer http://morth.nic.in/writereaddata/li...3644957219.pdf

Please read and introspect.
If a full driving test was to be conducted for you, today, do you think you will get to keep your license?

Last edited by KiloAlpha : 2nd January 2013 at 07:23.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 07:41   #4862
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by KiloAlpha View Post
All the Indian T-BHP members here have driving licenses issued by one or the other RTO in India.

Please refer http://morth.nic.in/writereaddata/li...3644957219.pdf

Please read and introspect.
If a full driving test was to be conducted for you, today, do you think you will get to keep your license?
I have an Indian license issued by an Indian RTO and a US license issued by New Hampshire DMV. If the Indian RTO was as strict about checking my ability to drive a vehicle as the NH DMV, I would not have been able to get an Indian license.

But having said that, I know many people here who have NH license and are as clueless about driving here as anywhere else. I know a colleague who regularly broke a "no turn on red" signal because he just did not notice the sign until someone pointed it to him!

I guess what I am trying to say is that RTOs and DMVs can not check whether the examinee knows each and every rule. That onus still lies on us and is our responsibility to be aware of all the rules. Almost all the traffic rules are based on common sense actually. That's why they are somewhat incomprehensible to many
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Old 2nd January 2013, 08:09   #4863
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Also, the road you were turning into had not completely cleared to accommodate you when you attempted the turn. Had the truck and bus stopped to let you go, you would have momentarily blocked the traffic on the road you were crossing.
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Yes traffic rules are written with a common sense only. We only need to follow them. And in this case, the truck and bus have the right of way. Nilesh could not even see the bus behind the truck. Had the truck stopped, Nilesh would have been creamed by the bus. If not, then he would have blocked the traffic on the main road because the traffic on the turn he is taking has not cleared yet.
The traffic was moving till the moment I started taking the right turn. So common sense suggested that I could take the right turn at that moment. I would not know if the first vehicle in the line has stopped till the time the truck crossed me and went ahead.

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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Sorry about back to back posts.
Here is another link, this time to KSRTC:
http://ksrtc.tripod.com/id11.html
Thanks for both the links. They are useful!

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Originally Posted by APT View Post
Traffic to the right was not one single long vehicle - there were four vehicles in the line. The first two had started before the truck reached the intersection. The auto hadn't and should have stopped for the truck to pass. Of course, it is an auto - it stops only to let passengers in/out or when the ignition is turned off. So, it chose a wrong trajectory to complete the turn. But at least our esteemed member should have stopped. He didn't do that, and worse, he is fully convinced that he was the one who was wronged against!
Just so that we are clear about the actual situation, the trajectory that all vehicles turning right took was not a right angle because the road turns right at a 135 degree angle. It is a single lane (not the double lane you have shown in your illustration). And the divider ends much before the triangular island to allow the slanted trajectory.

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Had it been a 90 degree turn with a two lane terminating road, I would not have taking the trajectory I took and would have stopped on seeing the truck in the distance. Otherwise it would have been similar to the morons taking the orange line in your illustration.

Thanks to everyone for chipping in with their views. I take away from this discussion that I was partly at fault for misunderstanding the right of way rule at a T-crossing. However I equally believe that the truck driver was at fault for not showing the courtesy of slowing down at a crossing and keeping a distance. He could also have flashed his lights to warn me of the bus (which was not visible to me initially) and the non-moving traffic on his left (if he saw it before me). Yes @APT, I still do think I was wronged against!

Last edited by nileshch : 2nd January 2013 at 08:13.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 08:22   #4864
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by nileshch View Post
The traffic was moving till the moment I started taking the right turn. So common sense suggested that I could take the right turn at that moment. I would not know if the first vehicle in the line has stopped till the time the truck crossed me and went ahead.
All the more reason for you to stop and wait.

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Originally Posted by nileshch View Post
However I equally believe that the truck driver was at fault for not showing the courtesy of slowing down at a crossing and keeping a distance. He could also have flashed his lights to warn me of the bus (which was not visible to me initially) and the non-moving traffic on his left (if he saw it before me). Yes @APT, I still do think I was wronged against!
You were breaking a traffic rule and truck driver did not show you enough courtesy to let you break it and yet you think both of you are equally at fault?

But i do agree with you somewhat because, god forbid, had an accident actually taken place, THEN the truck driver would have been equally at fault because he could have stopped to prevent an accident, just as much as you could have stopped from entering the intersection.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 17:07   #4865
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Good to know that there is such a rule, but this is what most good drivers follow intuitively, I guess. But I come across many many drivers who do it the wrong way everyday to my work in Bangalore. In fact, without knowing that such a specific law exists, I had made a diagram to post a "seeking info" post in t-bhp (attached at the end). I believe the green line gives the correct trajectory to turn, but many use the red trajectory. And morons use the orange one.
As per my UK instruction, the correct position from which to take a right turn is just to the left of the centre of the road. None of your lines really reflect that, which I would say holds true here too. One does not cross that centre line in the face of oncoming traffic, and only morons overtake on the right when someone is doing this. Of course, there are plenty of them.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 17:30   #4866
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
As per my UK instruction, the correct position from which to take a right turn is just to the left of the centre of the road. None of your lines really reflect that, which I would say holds true here too. One does not cross that centre line in the face of oncoming traffic, and only morons overtake on the right when someone is doing this. Of course, there are plenty of them.
Most important junctions in the UK have a central reservation where those wanting to turn can wait for the right moment. I agree with what you're saying, on coming traffic always gets priority.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 17:35   #4867
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by nileshch View Post

Thanks to everyone for chipping in with their views. I take away from this discussion that I was partly at fault for misunderstanding the right of way rule at a T-crossing. However I equally believe that the truck driver was at fault for not showing the courtesy of slowing down at a crossing and keeping a distance. He could also have flashed his lights to warn me of the bus (which was not visible to me initially) and the non-moving traffic on his left (if he saw it before me). Yes @APT, I still do think I was wronged against!
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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
All the more reason for you to stop and wait.



You were breaking a traffic rule and truck driver did not show you enough courtesy to let you break it and yet you think both of you are equally at fault?
Not to argue against either of the views, but what I have observed in developed countries (read:traffic rules being followed more properly), at a circle or a junction, in the absence of a traffic signal, if someone has already initiated the turn, then the oncoming vehicles give it the right of way. Of course this doesn't really apply on the freeways as the oncoming vehicles would be at quite high speeds. A translation to the current scenario: your car would have been given the right of way.

@nileshch, in my opinion the only mistake you made was to assume the truck driver (and more important the bus driver adjacent to the truck) would give you the "courtesy" to complete the turn. If you re-look the video, he actually paused a bit, but so did you, and that was a trigger enough for him to accelerate. On the other hand, a perfect idiot (similar to most idiots being described here by other previous incidents) would have not even stopped for the auto or you, and come on with horn blaring and lights flashing at you guys.

P.s. I would have done the same as what you did.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 18:25   #4868
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
Not to argue against either of the views, but what I have observed in developed countries (read:traffic rules being followed more properly), at a circle or a junction, in the absence of a traffic signal, if someone has already initiated the turn, then the oncoming vehicles give it the right of way.
Here we go again
If it is so incomprehensible for the educated folks here to know the difference between a T Junction and an intersection or a roundabout and the different rules that apply to these two cases, then what hope do we have from the illiterate mass of truck, bus , auto, cab drivers etc?

PS: The best way to not argue against either views is... to not argue at all! Just FYI.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 18:56   #4869
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Here we go again
If it is so incomprehensible for the educated folks here to know the difference between a T Junction and an intersection or a roundabout and the different rules that apply to these two cases, then what hope do we have from the illiterate mass of truck, bus , auto, cab drivers etc?

PS: The best way to not argue against either views is... to not argue at all! Just FYI.
And your point being?

Read carefully what I wrote in the first paragraph. They have T junctions in other countries, if you would have noticed. Unlike you I'm not giving gyan on what the RTO says or what is the rules; but simply what I have observed in a more saner world. And hence the importance of the last line in italics. And courtesy doesn't need education, just a better sense of mind. These "illiterate mass of trucks" on our highways are a lot better than the educated lot driving on indian roads.

And using your "tone of language", it would do a lot more good to this forum if educated folks here would read carefully before jumping to conclusions.

'nuf said.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 19:24   #4870
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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And your point being?

Read carefully what I wrote in the first paragraph. They have T junctions in other countries, if you would have noticed. Unlike you I'm not giving gyan on what the RTO says or what is the rules; but simply what I have observed in a more saner world. And hence the importance of the last line in italics. And courtesy doesn't need education, just a better sense of mind. These "illiterate mass of trucks" on our highways are a lot better than the educated lot driving on indian roads.

And using your "tone of language", it would do a lot more good to this forum if educated folks here would read carefully before jumping to conclusions.

'nuf said.
Yes i did read carefully what you wrote and your post did not make any distinction between T junctions and roundabouts. In any of these "saner" countries, if you did what Nilesh did, you would be breaking the law on at least two counts. One: failing to give way to oncoming traffic. Two: Blocking the main road. Even in cases where both sides have equal right of way, you are supposed to alternate. And since the auto in front had already gone ahead, this "courtesy" that you speak of would have required that the next vehicle behind the auto lets the truck go by. I find it hard to believe that you did not observe similar behavior!

"Courtesy" is not something that can be demanded! Had the truck driver shown the courtesy of stopping and letting the OP go, courtesy would also have required that the OP thank the truck driver or apologize to the truck driver for letting go of his right of way. Would you have done that had the truck driver given you the "courtesy"? I really doubt it because you are under the impression that you have the right of way.

Last edited by amitoj : 2nd January 2013 at 19:27.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 19:39   #4871
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Yes i did read carefully what you wrote and your post did not make any distinction between T junctions and roundabouts. In any of these "saner" countries, if you did what Nilesh did, you would be breaking the law on at least two counts. One: failing to give way to oncoming traffic. Two: Blocking the main road. Even in cases where both sides have equal right of way, you are supposed to alternate. And since the auto in front had already gone ahead, this "courtesy" that you speak of would have required that the next vehicle behind the auto lets the truck go by. I find it hard to believe that you did not observe similar behavior!

"Courtesy" is not something that can be demanded! Had the truck driver shown the courtesy of stopping and letting the OP go, courtesy would also have required that the OP thank the truck driver or apologize to the truck driver for letting go of his right of way. Would you have done that had the truck driver given you the "courtesy"? I really doubt it because you are under the impression that you have the right of way. But if you are going to treat RTO rules as just some "gyan" then you might as well go the distance and start jumping red lights!!
The extremely basic & simple point you fail to grasp is that I am not advocating Nilesh that what he did was completely 100% correct and should have gone ahead.

And hence my statement that began with "not to argue". Again, I quote myself "read carefully before jumping to conclusions". (Instead you fyi me to not to argue - p.s. - it is called an opinion)

And as for your second para on courtesy, of course nobody demands it; it is given, as per the wishes of the giver. Nilesh could have very well not stopped and gone ahead. Yes, that might have caused an accident. (or) Yes, the truck (& bus) guy might have let him pass, braking at the last moment. And yes, in a more saner (& rules-oriented) world, he would have been fined for that. And no, I'm not advocating him to do that; instead I concur that I probably would have done what he just did. And yes, I have thanked people who have shown courtesy on the road - it's a different matter not all of them would have grasped my vote of thanks, given the amount of noise & other aspects. And I still do it, as a habit.

And responding to your first paragraph question, no I haven't. Rather (in a similar kind of scenario) I have seen people giving others the benefit to pass on. Even though they, legally, have the right of way. That is courtesy.

Understand what I'm trying to say here rather than assuming I'm advocating a particular action.

Last edited by ninjatalli : 2nd January 2013 at 19:45. Reason: spelling error
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Old 2nd January 2013, 19:55   #4872
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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The extremely basic & simple point you fail to grasp is that I am not advocating Nilesh that what he did was completely 100% correct and should have gone ahead.

And hence my statement that began with "not to argue". Again, I quote myself "read carefully before jumping to conclusions". (Instead you fyi me to not to argue - p.s. - it is called an opinion)

And as for your second para on courtesy, of course nobody demands it; it is given, as per the wishes of the giver. Nilesh could have very well not stopped and gone ahead. Yes, that might have caused an accident. (or) Yes, the truck (& bus) guy might have let him pass, breaking at the last moment. And yes, in a more saner (& rules-oriented) world, he would have been fined for that. And no, I'm not advocating him to do that; instead I concur that I probably would have done what he just did.

And responding to your first paragraph question, no I haven't. Rather (in a similar kind of scenario) I have seen people giving others the benefit to pass on. Even though they, legally, have the right of way. That is courtesy.

Understand what I'm trying to say here rather than assuming I'm advocating a particular action.
And the point that I am making, which you obviously are not able to see because you are stuck at the "tone" and "gyan giving" part of the whole conversation, is that your statement: "in my opinion the only mistake you made was to assume the truck driver (and more important the bus driver adjacent to the truck) would give you the "courtesy" to complete the turn." is factually incorrect as shown by the links I posted from authorities that have the final say in such matter, and not based on just my "observations". How wrong it is can be judged by the fact that the bus driver did not even have proper view of Nilesh's car and yet you expect him to show courtesy!!

I am not even going to argue about what i said in the first para. If you fail to observe the driving etiquette of the place where you are, then there is no point in arguing over it.

Last edited by amitoj : 2nd January 2013 at 20:03.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 20:13   #4873
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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One: failing to give way to oncoming traffic. Two: Blocking the main road. Even in cases where both sides have equal right of way, you are supposed to alternate.
Absolutely. Since the oncoming traffic had no red light stopping them, they have absolute right of way. If you cause an accident like that in the US turning left when there is no red light for opposite traffic, you will be in for a lot of trouble. The only time the oncoming traffic would let you turn is when the light changes amber to stop and you were already at the intersection taking your turn. As much as you expect courtesy here, it still is illegal per the letter of the law to make them stop for you to take the turn.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 23:43   #4874
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

Note From Team-BHP Support: Please stick to the topic, guys! And let's keep it clean, shall we? Off-topic posts will be deleted.
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Old 4th January 2013, 08:22   #4875
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Angry Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

Spotted today morning a White Tata Safari on the eastern express highway and on route to Powai on the JVLR with LTD stickers. The driver was driving like crazy breaking all traffic rules of lane sticking, traffic signals. Made me go red faced in front of my office colleagues in the car. Sorry could not pick up the number plates either as the car was zig zagging between lanes.

Whoever you are, pls either remove the T-BHP sticker or be a stickler to traffic rules.
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