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Old 21st August 2014, 22:17   #6541
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

While I give tailgaters a wide berth and allow them to cross whenever there is space, it becomes very difficult to do so in traffic.

Today, I wasted my 30 mins, because on insistence from my colleagues, I took a direct route to a crowded place rather than taking the bye-pass. In that situation, taxis & SUV taxis (non AC Bolero & Scorpio EX/M2Di) squeeze so much that you don't see their bonnet in your IRVM. I can't describe what autos do. And if someone bumps into you in that situation, you can't do anything.


In India while driving, there are just so many presumptions etc that I believe a bit of luck and lots of patience will see you through. Luck? What if a car car slides in mud and hits you? That is luck. Someone's brake not working, tires not having treads, debris from container, you know...the list is endless. Everyday, I feel lucky to come back home unscathed. And to top it, the licensing laws. They hand out license to anyone who goes to the office.

Earlier, I used to get irate, but with passage of time, I always stay calm & composed and drive as defensively as I can. My parents & wife can wait 10 mins longer for me at the dinner table.

Last edited by Sheel : 21st August 2014 at 22:20.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 00:46   #6542
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
While I give tailgaters a wide berth and allow them to cross whenever there is space, it becomes very difficult to do so in traffic.

Earlier, I used to get irate, but with passage of time, I always stay calm & composed and drive as defensively as I can. My parents & wife can wait 10 mins longer for me at the dinner table.
I share your feelings. I hate traffic, not because of time, but because i have to keep checking all mirrors to see if a bike, an auto, or a drunkard is squeezing between me and the divider or another car.

Incident 1: I am stuck in a traffic jam and suddenly I here a big thud on the left of my car, freaks me out, and I see this biker with his wife holding the helmet on her side. The traffic starts moving and the whole trip back home I cant stop to look at it. I start thinking the worse that a helmet could have damaged. Reaching home I let out a big sigh of relief to see no damage done. They could have just left the helmet at home rather than carrying it around like a baby.

Incident 2: I am again stuck in traffic, my vehicle is stopped, every other car or any vehicle behind me has plenty of time to break and come to a halt. I suddenly hear a thud from the rear of my car, this idiotic person actually comes and nudges me with his car. I expect this from bikers, I installed rear guard to prevent bikers from rear ending me in traffic not a car. Now I see a car (maruti 800) behind me and to see how far back he is now I turn on the rear view camera, his car is kissing my rear guard. Just because I got out from an 18 hour shift I was in no mood to walk out and see the damage, I just wanted to go home and sleeeep. Traffic starts moving and stopping, this guy gets too close for my comfort again. This time I was angry and furious. And still not wanting to leave the car and shout at him, I started to engage my reverse gear and started to move back slowly every time the traffic came to a stop to make him stop much quicker, then just engaging the reverse gear was enough of a message for him, till I see him staying back without me having to do anything. Assessed the damage once I was home, and smiled to see the ride and rear guard were fine. Then just crashed happily to sleep.

I tend to drive leisurely, I dont let the person on my rear to dictate my speed, I dont like to tailgate, I keep a very safe distance knowing my cars breaking ability, I will slow down if I see any pedestrian on or near the road (so I know I can stop immediately if they jump in front of me accidentally or on purpose), I will not give side to a person who loves to press his horn, I will stop if the signal turns yellow (drivers in India a notorious for jumping the signal before it says green, especially bikers), If I see a biker trying to come between me and the divider I will make the space tighter till he gets the message and goes the other way.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 01:31   #6543
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

In the spirit of conversation
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
^^^
@mallumowgli, you have summed up quite well. Both rear-ending and stopping without valid reason are wrong. But the way we need to look at it is that it does not matter whose fault it is and does not matter whether we are the rear-ender or the one who got hit - the idea should be to avoid being either of the two. Because getting into an accident is a mess for all concerned and so better avoided. So leave space from vehicle in front and avoid stupid/illogical braking without signalling/looking in mirror.
Nothing to disagree with there!

Quote:
However, there are other scenarios that are unique to us due to the pathetic road conditions or bad signage, which the developed world does not have to face. In such cases, neither of the parties can be blamed and instead blame rests on the infrastructure or authorities. Some scenarios :
Quote:
1) You are driving on a 2-lane road on the left-lane with a car in front of you that is going at a speed slower than what is permissible for that road. You shift to the overtaking (right) lane and get into overtaking mode. The other car is still ambling along on left lane, making this a simple overtake. You have by now accelerated enough to be able to overtake the other car and just before you draw alongside him, he swerves to the right to avoid something on the road that should not be there (one of those concrete blocks used as medians, a rock that was used to mark in a stranded truck or even a crater/pothole). Now not only are you in accelerating mode, but you are also not expecting this sudden development and there is no braking distance available, leading to you crashing into the rear/side of the car. Who is at fault here ?

The other vehicle
. The whole tailgating thing assumes that the other person is actually in the lane ahead of you, not that they have cut in.
Quote:
2) You are zipping through the city (within permissible speeds), reach a junction and see the red light ahead turn green for you. The car in front is some metres short of reaching the junction with you behind him maintaining decent gap for the given situation (light has just turned green, so guy in front is going to clear it followed by you). Suddenly just before the guy in front reaches the StopLine, the light turns red or blinking-yellow (due to malfunctioning, not as per the set periodicity - yes, have seen this in Chennai). The guy in front gets confused, slams on the brakes and you too after a second or so, by which time the front of your car has kissed the rear of the car in front. Who is at fault here ?
Yours. This is a straightforward example of the car being in front of you, and you should allow for whatever.



Quote:
And if the above hypothetical (though very common in India) scenarios don't cut it for you, check out this real-life incident posted in another thread. No signage indicating a hump leading to a death. Scooter guy stopped, for a reason and one dictated by traffic-authorities, truck guy did not expect someone to suddenly stop at the down-end of a flyover and rear-ended. A life lost, we could endlessly argue about who was to blame, but I think the blame here is on the authorities who were so bird-brained as to put up a hump at a place where even without A-pedal input, folks would be coming down at speed, aided by gravity.
Sad that its a tragic real-life case, but The Truck Driver. Did not expect is no defence, and the scooter had a good reason to stop. There is no argument at all here, certainly not an endless one. Gravity? Change to a lower gear. The driver is supposed to be in control.


Quote:
While we indeed have to go a long way in improving our driving, it would not hurt to get quality signage / infrastructure also.
Of course. It would help to have properly marked speed humps, properly marked pot holes... Oh, wait...
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Old 22nd August 2014, 05:51   #6544
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

Recent 'encounter' with a bad driver:
I was returning home from work on a not-so-wide road and there was a crossroad near a school with school kids crossing the street. Some sense prevailed and traffic on both sides stopped, I was behind an Eeco that was being driven cautiously. All vehicles are patiently waiting and then there is this guy on a motorbike who just comes straight into my car's rear bumper! He backs up a little bit, maneuvers to the right overtaking me and goes straight at oncoming traffic
Luckily the impact wasn't so hard so the bumper survived and it lives to see another day
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Old 22nd August 2014, 08:37   #6545
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

Bangalore Report:

Nothing new, but just very frustrating. Hence ranting.

KA 03 MU 168 (IIRC) - Alto 800, Maroon colour.

Dad dropping his son at some school. Son looks like in Class5-6.
None belted. Dad was zooming through traffic, weaving in and out in a sea of yellow buses (school buses). Location is Whitefield main road, from Kundanahalli towards CMRIT.

He wants to take a right turn in the median, so he puts on the right indicator. I think he will go right, so I start overtaking him from left, to go straight. But no, this Dad was not only smart, he was over smart. He switches to left lane, to bypass all the fools waiting in the right lane queue to take right turn. And there I was on his left, overtaking him. I keep my hands on the horn pad and don't let it go off for about 4 seconds. Somehow he stopped parallel to me. No, I stopped parallel to him, in order or avoid any side kisses with his car. He was still struggling to go past me and make that b-i-i-i-i-g right turn. I look straight into the Dad's eyes. He waves me in an apologising manner.
I look at him helplessly, hopelessly and move on with my life.

Wonder what will the son do, another 5 years from now. Create mayhem on the roads !!
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Old 22nd August 2014, 10:54   #6546
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by falconion View Post
I tend to drive leisurely, I dont let the person on my rear to dictate my speed, I dont like to tailgate, I keep a very safe distance knowing my cars breaking ability, .
From the other side of the fence.
I am sometimes a tailgater. The kind who sits on the horn and flashes lights? Why?
Because the right most lane is for overtaking.

Second? The hill roads. Its okay if you are not confident in overtaking trucks. Its okay to go behind a truck doing 30kmph. But remember, there are people who are faster than you, so do not drive 10 feet from the truck. Give 4-5 car lengths!! People who want to overtake now have to overtake the car + Truck which is dangerous on a mountain road.

If you want to follow a truck bus, leave enough gap so that people who want to overtake can do it one vehicle at a time.

The worst offenders are the truck convoys. 4 trucks, no intention of overtaking going within 1 feet of each other. What are they doing? Trying to do hypermilling or something at 20kmph?

Yes, Tailgating is wrong, very wrong, but sometimes, when you have a slow moving car in the fast lane parallel to that truck in the middle lane, what is the option?

Even when I am doing 90kmph on the highway, I try and stick to the middle lane, even if it means changing lanes often to overtake slow moving traffic. the right lane should be for overtaking.

Infact, if I am going to overtake a slower moving vehicle, but behind me I see a very fast vehicle coming, I abort, move behind slow vehicle, let the faster guy go, and then overtake.

If people start respecting the lane concept, the problem of tail gating will reduce!

Last edited by tsk1979 : 22nd August 2014 at 12:21.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 14:20   #6547
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by falconion View Post
I tend to drive leisurely, I dont let the person on my rear to dictate my speed.
That's okay so long as you are not hogging the right most lane, see tsk's response below. Most people don't give way to faster vehicles even within speed limit. This has two ramifications: 1. slow throughput even on a high capacity three lane road, and 2. compelling others to overtake from the left, which is dangerous.
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Because the right most lane is for overtaking.
My wife likes to drive on the right most lane at whatever speed she is comfortable in, which is around 60kmph on expressways. I tried to convince her to drive on the second lane for two reasons: (a) Tanveer's point above, and (b) it is safer because if there is an obstacle on the road or you lose control, you have lanes on both sides to veer off to before you hit median / footpath. She is not convinced, saying that driving in the middle lanes means people overtake her on both left and right, which unsettles her. Driving on the right most lane means people can overtake only on one side. She has a point.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 14:55   #6548
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by Guite View Post
She has a point.
With all due respect, this is utterly wrong interpretation of lane concept!

If she gets very unsettled in the middle lane, then she may use the left lane where faster vehicles can overtake from the 'right' direction. She may then use the middle lane to overtake any vehicle ahead of her and then move back into the left lane.
Also, she should learn the correct rules and with time she won't get unsettled at all!
With your guidance and some push, I'm sure things would fall in place the right way.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 15:02   #6549
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

Quote:
Yes, Tailgating is wrong, very wrong, but sometimes, when you have a slow moving car in the fast lane parallel to that truck in the middle lane, what is the option?
Making your intention/request known from a reasonable distance. If the person is not going to give way, they may not give way when you have your nose up their backside either, but then you are both in a highly dangerous situation.

I regularly confess to not being perfect, and might even admit to bloody-mindedness! Personally, I am much more likely to give way to those who ask politely. With the tailgaters, my fantasy is stopping and asking telling them that if they would like to push, that's fine, I'll just turn off my engine!

I don't believe that one driver should ever obstruct another --- but nor do I believe that any of us has the right to charge through traffic just because we want to go faster (Hello SUV drivers and taxis!).

Of course you are right about lane discipline. We need to follow the code, and we need to all follow the same code. Currently, it seems that truck drivers have a different code?

I don't do much highway driving here, but if we obey the overtake-on-right rule and people habitually stick to the middle lane then they have effectively reduced a three lane carriageway to a two-lane carriageway. I appreciate that there are many situations in which keeping to the left is just to scary.

Quote:
If people start respecting the lane concept, the problem of tail gating will reduce!
Tailgating is alwaysbad, mad, rude and dangerous. Always. It is not the way to deal with someone who gets in the way. It is not the way to deal with anything. If someone is obstructing you, flash, honk, scream, wave your arms, fire missiles ...but do not tailgate.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 15:07   #6550
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

This almost always happens to me on NECE road (I live close to the Hosakerehalli/PESIT entry/exit point and drive on Mysore road often).

There would invariably be some leisurely Sunday driver driving at slow speeds in the passing lane. I'll come up behind, honk & flash a couple of times, wait and repeat if they don't move. Some of them take the hint and move over, some just won't and some stare or gesture when I finally give up and overtake from the left. One gentleman once asked me to stop over for a quick chat. He asks me why I'm honking/flashing at him when he's minding his own business, why I'm in such a hurry, why can't I take the two empty lanes to his left, what's with all the boy racer cheap stickers on my car and how one should respect elderly folks.

I politely told him he's not supposed to mind his business in the overtaking lane at 'crawling' speeds, that I'm proud of the 'got BHP?', 'Live to Drive' and 'Driven by Team-BHP' stickers on my immaculately maintained car, it's my duty as a road user to overtake in the right (literally and figuratively) lane, and that he needs to earn respect from other drivers on the road (age notwithstanding), not demand it de facto. "You have my respect as an elder Sir, my apologies I can't extend it to your driving, unfortunately".

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 22nd August 2014 at 15:10.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 15:11   #6551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guite View Post

My wife likes to drive on the right most lane at whatever speed she is comfortable in, which is around 60kmph on expressways. I tried to convince her to drive on the second lane for two reasons: (a) Tanveer's point above, and (b) it is safer because if there is an obstacle on the road or you lose control, you have lanes on both sides to veer off to before you hit median / footpath. She is not convinced, saying that driving in the middle lanes means people overtake her on both left and right, which unsettles her. Driving on the right most lane means people can overtake only on one side. She has a point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Divya Sharan View Post
With all due respect, this is utterly wrong interpretation of lane concept!

If she gets very unsettled in the middle lane, then she may use the left lane where faster vehicles can overtake from the 'right' direction. She may then use the middle lane to overtake any vehicle ahead of her and then move back into the left lane.
Well, we should all be using the left lane unless there is overtaking to be done. As mentioned above, this is not always wise, but then the 3-lane road becomes 2-lane.
Quote:
Also, she should learn the correct rules and with time she won't get unsettled at all!
With your guidance and some push, I'm sure things would fall in place the right way.
We should stick to roads that we are comfortable on, and it sounds like your wife is not comfortable on three-lane roads. She is not only wrong, as per already-given explanations, she is dangerously wrong. Not all drivers are good at judging speed (well, not all drivers are good!) and she is asking for a high-speed rear-end collision. Potentially lethal.

Please keep up the persuasion until you win. I'd go further, I wouldn't be comfortable being driven by her on those roads. Keep your wife safe; keep yourself safe.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 15:27   #6552
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post

Please keep up the persuasion until you win. I'd go further, I wouldn't be comfortable being driven by her on those roads. Keep your wife safe; keep yourself safe.
Agree with you.

I've experienced the 'family' situation first-hand, and it's sometimes difficult to cajole family members into following rules.

My father is a bit on the heavier side, and didn't like seat-belts as it hurt his stomach on long-drives. I adjusted his belt positioning (he was putting the lap belt across his lower stomach/abdomen area, I moved it so it sat around his waist) and he's been more comfortable (and less reluctant since then). I've also put my mother in charge of seat-belt enforcement while it's just the two of them in the car, and it works a treat!

He didn't care much for ABS/Airbags either, given he's from a generation that trusted 'sturdy' vehicles over gadgets. I was adamant we'll not settle for a car sans safety equipment when he was hunting for a new ride a few years ago.

End result: Dad drives a top-end Figo (ABS and dual airbags) and mom ensures they're both belted in always. It takes time, but habits and mindsets do change with persistence

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 22nd August 2014 at 15:40.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 15:40   #6553
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by Guite View Post
... likes to drive on the right most lane at whatever speed is comfortable ... saying that driving in the middle lanes means people overtake on both left and right, which unsettles. Driving on the right most lane means people can overtake only on one side ...
I don't have anything against an individual. But not following rules on the road is really really dangerous. There are many people who go by this logic. And its not that individual's fault completely. Our RTOs are anyways useless at training or filtering out people who really should not be let near an automobile's controls.

People drive in rightmost lane because they feel comfortable there.
People park in leftmost lane because they feel comfortable there. And the authorities did not think of parking space before giving land to shops adjacent to the highway. Why, I've seen people who park on rightmost lane of Outer Ring Road in Bangalore and amble away.
People change tires wherever they realize they have a flat. Be it rightmost lane, middle lane, on top of a flyover, to heck with traffic flow. A tire is flat and it needs to be changed then and there.

If only people followed rules rather than did what they felt was comfortable.

BTW, this rightmost lane "comfort" has a very high probability of turning into "big discomfort".
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Old 22nd August 2014, 16:01   #6554
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Here is what I saw last weekend in Pune. Weekends mean shopping and eating outside for many people. In hadapsar area of Pune on Magarpatta road there are two large malls, Amanora and Seasons opposite each other. Naturally, the traffic here is choc-a-block on weekends. I was coming from Kharadi and was a few hundred meters near the Amanora entrance waiting in the traffic jam. I suddenly see that many two wheelers have jumped onto the narrow footpath on the left and happily riding on it.
Now, there was an elderly lady walking on the footpath with her walking aide. She was walking slowly as she seemed to have some knee problem. These bikers without any sense were honking at her (on the footpath) to give way to them. The elderly lady had no option but to stop and give way to the bikers. All the bikers followed suit and took that opportunity to drive on the footpath.
My wife sitting beside me was shouting at the bikers to stop but who listens!!
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Old 22nd August 2014, 16:11   #6555
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Originally Posted by sukhoi30 View Post
Here is what I saw last weekend in Pune. Weekends mean shopping and eating outside for many people. In hadapsar area of Pune on Magarpatta road there are two large malls, Amanora and Seasons opposite each other. Naturally, the traffic here is choc-a-block on weekends. I was coming from Kharadi and was a few hundred meters near the Amanora entrance waiting in the traffic jam. I suddenly see that many two wheelers have jumped onto the narrow footpath on the left and happily riding on it.
Now, there was an elderly lady walking on the footpath with her walking aide. She was walking slowly as she seemed to have some knee problem. These bikers without any sense were honking at her (on the footpath) to give way to them. The elderly lady had no option but to stop and give way to the bikers. All the bikers followed suit and took that opportunity to drive on the footpath.
My wife sitting beside me was shouting at the bikers to stop but who listens!!
Riding on the footpath has nearly become an epidemic in Bangalore, and some of them even get abusive if a pedestrian dares to 'not move over' for their lordships to pass, not that there's much space to move over even if one wants to, given half the footpaths are encroached and the other half non-existent due to constant digging and tinkering by BBMP or one of its incompetent sister concerns (no offense intended to any sisters).

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 22nd August 2014 at 16:14.
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