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Old 22nd February 2015, 12:08   #316
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Default Re: The Street dog menace

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
So even love for animals is also conditional and based on your fancies?
I often wonder about this.

I can understand the love between a humans and their pet. But when they extend the same love towards stray animals which are clearly not pets, it gets confusing. Is it because of their potential as pets? Is it because their love extends to all animals?

Keep in mind rats are closer evolutionary cousins of humans when compared to dogs. If your cat or dog catches a rat, you should be furious because of this. But I doubt any of us will be furious, we may even applaud the dog/cat for killing a rat, who is our closer evolutionary cousin than dog/cat.

Consider a dangerous stray dog that attacks humans, why are we protective towards it, while having no qualms about killing a rat or a mosquito?

I suspect it is only because of their potential as pets. Would be interested to see other points of view.

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Old 22nd February 2015, 15:12   #317
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Default Re: The Street dog menace

Exactly Sir. Infact I am aghast when people on the forum discuss ways of killing rats that they have captured in their houses and applaud each other's efforts. But then I guess there can be a thin line between pests and other animals like strays. On the other hand even a stray dog charging at you near your home, office or elsewhere can be defined as a pest.

With dogs I think you are spot on to say that we see them as an extension of our pets. A puppy face is one of the hardest things to ignore, stray or otherwise.
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Old 25th February 2015, 12:37   #318
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Default Re: The Street dog menace

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post

Consider a dangerous stray dog that attacks humans, why are we protective towards it, while having no qualms about killing a rat or a mosquito?

I suspect it is only because of their potential as pets. Would be interested to see other points of view.

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In view of the above, I would like to quote a few lines pertaining to the genetic affinity from ' The Selfish Gene ', the magnum opus by Richard Dawkins

"...an Individual's descendants constitute not a single line but a branching line..... One of your genetic units may also be present in your second cousin. It may be present in me, and in the Prime Minister and in your DOG, for we all share ancestors if we go back far enough."

I don't know how many of us would find it interesting.

Mosquito or tiger or cat or cow would not invoke strong emotions from a human perspective as a dog would do [ which might as well be strays too] and it might be due to the tens of thousands of years of genetic programming [ propelled by the positive environmental and social contacts with the dogs] and not any kind of genetic affinity it shares with us. The dogs, along with the sheep were among the 1st species to be domesticated by us and it is worthy to remember that these were the first species to be domesticated by us without any apparent or direct utility unlike goat/sheep, horse but for the sake of symbiotic relationship that evolved between the humans and dogs.

And if the genetic affinity is a factor to befriend other groups, it would have been chimps/baboons who would have donned the role of 'humans' best friend' and not dogs.

Personally, if a stray goes on rampage, it better be euthanised since it is endangering the lives of my species [ and its species too] and my ultimate aim is to ensure the welfare of my species [ in a sustainable way ]
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Old 25th February 2015, 13:19   #319
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Default Re: The Street dog menace

I've gone through the last few pages, and have noticed that the stray dog menace is reported with respect to the biting or chasing.

My only problem with them is with barking/howling at night and disturbing my sleep!

One dog starts a chain reaction, with dogs from other lanes joining in the orchestra. Highly torturous, and has given me sleepless night.

In my half-sleep, the only thought I get is to kill 'em! Being watching GOT lately.

Any remedies on this?
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Old 25th February 2015, 15:00   #320
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Default Re: The Street dog menace

The love most people feel towards dogs (instead of, say, cats) is because of their temperament and individual personality. Each dog has a personality much like we do. That may be the reason why some people defend even strays that menace people, not how much a creature is evolutionally removed from us. But they will generally sing a different tune when themselves or someone close to them is attacked.

We will not hesitate to bump off a member of our own species if he/she endangers our little ones, leave alone a dog!

I have said this many pages before and will say it again. Stray dogs are pests and should be off the streets. Absolutely. I am a dog lover too, and have had many in my home over the years.

Personality apart, it is still an animal. Please don't go about assigning human attributes to it. A pet wish of mine is to round up 30 or 40 strays in a van, go to the most vociferous stray dog rights advocate, unload all of them inside his/her compound, lock the gate and drive off!

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Old 25th February 2015, 16:09   #321
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Default Re: The Street dog menace

Mod Note : There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the forum experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use spell-checkers.

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Old 26th February 2015, 23:05   #322
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DrMohit : I am all for reducing the number of stray dogs but I guess my association with dogs as pet animals means that I would prefer it done in a more humane manner i.e. by sterilization and allowing their numbers to dwindle gradually. I have paid for around 20 dogs to be sterilized in my area over the last 3-4 years.
I have greater dislike for pigeons as I feel they are a lot more invasive and come right up to house and even inside it ! With a dog its easier to drive them away and make them stay away from you but with pigeons it isnt that easy. They are also present in MUCH larger numbers than dogs and have the advantage of flight so its a lot harder to deal with them in a manner similar to dogs i.e. by catching, sterlizing and releasing and therefore require harder measures to deal with. Stray dogs do have some potential benefits in our ecosystem, whereas pigeons do not.

Believe me, I have had my own set of negative experiences with dogs but I have moved past them. Its similar to the way people started fearing and killing sharks after Jaws but then come to realise that they arent mindless killers.
Actually, I do not have any pets at home, except for fish in an aquarium and I prefer cats to dogs ! I ocassionally feed and have befriended a few stray cats in the building and make sure they hang around my cars and I have found that they make the best rat repellants, my cars have never had any problems with rats but a few cars in the the building have had their wires bitten through so you see some strays do have uses !
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Old 27th February 2015, 01:26   #323
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
The love most people feel towards dogs (instead of, say, cats) is because of their temperament and individual personality..... Stray dogs are pests and should be off the streets
It is not just that. Dogs are entirely man made, and the stray dog problem is also man made. We have a responsibility to solve it in a humane way.

If mass killing is an option - stray cattle are also a man made problem - lets also kill all the stray cows and feed the poor some meat. They are easier to capture, have more meat in them, cause more damage when cars/two wheelers hit them on the streets. Several accidents and injuries are caused because of stray cattle.

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Old 27th February 2015, 15:34   #324
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This issue has to be viewed in an ecological aspect and it is the utmost duty of us to recognize that other creatures have as much right to live on this earth as we do. And to be candid, we have already confined this creatures to narrow zones and happily, without a regret, colonized most of the habitable land.

And being the most powerful race on earth, the onus really lies on us to save and sustain all the lifeforms on our planet.

[ Pertinent to remember the famous Spidey dialogue - With great power comes great responsibility]

And just a hypothetical situation, what if an advanced race descends on Earth and considers our race to be barbaric and mindless and would decide to terminate us off the face of this planet - just like in the movie ' The day the Earth stood Still ' .

I know I am being too filmy but I thought that is one way to drive home the point.

Last edited by Samurai : 27th February 2015 at 23:03. Reason: removed quoted posts
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Old 27th February 2015, 19:59   #325
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Default Re: The Street dog menace

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and it might be due to the tens of thousands of years of genetic programming
I hope you mean genetic selection rather than genetic programming. Since you have read Selfish Gene, you must know the difference.
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Old 27th February 2015, 20:26   #326
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I hope you mean genetic selection rather than genetic programming. Since you have read Selfish Gene, you must know the difference.
Well, I have started and completed a few chapters of it !

And as per my understanding [Correct me if I'm wrong] , the programming takes impetus from the selection, i.e. the genetic selection paves the way for/ dictates the gene programming.
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Old 27th February 2015, 21:24   #327
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And as per my understanding [Correct me if I'm wrong] , the programming takes impetus from the selection, i.e. the genetic selection paves the way for/ dictates the gene programming.
Human evolution is by natural selection, but humans created dogs by design (controlled breeding).

We humans are not programmed/selected to like dogs, because it is not a criteria for our survival. On the other hand, dogs were selectively bred to like humans. Dogs that hated humans didn't get to breed at all.

Now some might think we are going off-topic, but we are not.

Humans designed various kinds of dogs to suit different purposes. The ones that didn't suit any purpose were eliminated or not allowed to breed. This may sound like eugenics, because it is. All domestic animals (cow, sheep, cat, dogs) are result of thousands of years of elective breeding.

For the uninitiated, this article might help.

When it comes to stray dogs, we have changed the rules. Now the law doesn't allow humans to eliminate dogs that are useless for human purpose. Even the dogs that attack humans are allowed to live and breed. This finally allows for natural selection within stray dogs. Only aggressive, agile (thus avoid being runover) stray dogs will get to breed in the competitive street environment. Within 3-4 generations of stray dogs, we will see more aggressive and agile dogs on the street.

This is based on my understanding of natural selection. Would love to hear other opinions.
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Old 27th February 2015, 21:59   #328
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I had once read somewhere a few years back regarding catching a good number of strays and to release them into national parks. I don't remember which one were they talking about but it was something to do with dwindling number of prey for the big cats there. Ofcourse the idea was never accepted.

But do you think this is possible? I mean then we can all claim a moral high ground and blame it on mother nature. On the other hand a pack of dogs would soon adapt and may disturb the big cat itself and the ecosystem there at large.
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Old 27th February 2015, 22:38   #329
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On the other hand a pack of dogs would soon adapt and may disturb the big cat itself and the ecosystem there at large.
They already do. Dhole (wild dog) is one of the primary predators in the jungles of South India. Even Tigers keep a distance from them. But they evolved over thousands of generations to adopt to the wilderness and develop hunting genes.

This obviously won't work with stray dogs. Stray dogs don't have hunting ability anymore. You might as well ask the modern humans to swing from the tree. If they are released to the forest, they will be picked clean within no time by leopards.

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
I had once read somewhere a few years back regarding catching a good number of strays and to release them into national parks. I don't remember which one were they talking about but it was something to do with dwindling number of prey for the big cats there. Ofcourse the idea was never accepted.
As prey to the tigers and leopards? Well, that would obviously work, but would be very inhuman thing to do. There have to be humane methods.
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Old 27th February 2015, 23:16   #330
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As prey to the tigers and leopards? Well, that would obviously work, but would be very inhuman thing to do. There have to be humane methods.
But is it really that inhumane? You are not killing them. Worst is to see people kicking them, running them over accidentally otherwise and resulting in most dogs limping or hopping on 3 legs etc. Here you are introducing another hunter other than human. I guess the number of strays killed everyday on our roads will be far more than the numbers picked up by Tigers and Leopards. Even now the govt. must have introduced some other species in that park for the same purpose right? It wasn't like Deer or Buffalo was in need of any protection. But they were put there to serve only 1 purpose.
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