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Old 27th February 2015, 23:48   #331
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Default Re: The Street dog menace

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
But is it really that inhumane? You are not killing them. Worst is to see people kicking them, running them over accidentally otherwise and resulting in most dogs limping or hopping on 3 legs etc. Here you are introducing another hunter other than human. I guess the number of strays killed everyday on our roads will be far more than the numbers picked up by Tigers and Leopards.
There is the question of intent. Nobody intentionally runs them over. It is an accident. If you send them to the jungle, then it is intentional.

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Even now the govt. must have introduced some other species in that park for the same purpose right? It wasn't like Deer or Buffalo was in need of any protection. But they were put there to serve only 1 purpose.
Existing species in the jungle have a fighting chance since they know how live in Jungle, have developed instinct to survive in the wild. The stray dogs will starve to death, if not killed right away by the leopards. Stray dogs are carnivores that are not capable of hunting.
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Old 27th February 2015, 23:49   #332
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Smile Re: The Street dog menace

Well, ask any stray dog in Pashan/Aundh area in Pune around 3 AM and they will talk about a biker they tried to bite. They would say he stops and tries to adjust his jacket. But what he actually does is pull out an imaginary rock which he then throws at them with the utmost faith in the apparently huge rock.

If only dogs could talk, they would swear by the terror I brought them during my last job.
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Old 28th February 2015, 00:08   #333
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Default Re: The Street dog menace

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Human evolution is by natural selection, but humans created dogs by design (controlled breeding).

We humans are not programmed/selected to like dogs, because it is not a criteria for our survival. On the other hand, dogs were selectively bred to like humans. Dogs that hated humans didn't get to breed at all.
Exactly !

And that is what I intended to say [ I don't know if I skewed away]


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Humans designed various kinds of dogs to suit different purposes. The ones that didn't suit any purpose were eliminated or not allowed to breed. This may sound like eugenics, because it is. All domestic animals (cow, sheep, cat, dogs) are result of thousands of years of elective breeding.
And not just the animals, even the crops , fruits and vegetables like wheat, barley, potatoes, mangoes... all have their wild ancestors which were genetically selected [ and thus programmed] by humans. Sorry for going OT

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When it comes to stray dogs, we have changed the rules. Now the law doesn't allow humans to eliminate dogs that are useless for human purpose. Even the dogs that attack humans are allowed to live and breed. This finally allows for natural selection within stray dogs. Only aggressive, agile (thus avoid being runover) stray dogs will get to breed in the competitive street environment. Within 3-4 generations of stray dogs, we will see more aggressive and agile dogs on the street.

This is based on my understanding of natural selection. Would love to hear other opinions.
And as per the standard [genetic] ops, that should be inevitable.


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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
But is it really that inhumane? You are not killing them. Worst is to see people kicking them, running them over accidentally otherwise and resulting in most dogs limping or hopping on 3 legs etc. Here you are introducing another hunter other than human. I guess the number of strays killed everyday on our roads will be far more than the numbers picked up by Tigers and Leopards. Even now the govt. must have introduced some other species in that park for the same purpose right? It wasn't like Deer or Buffalo was in need of any protection. But they were put there to serve only 1 purpose.
The problem with this solution is that we or for that matter, our coming generations wouldn't last long to see any change in those strays because for the strays to adopt in the situations of wild and transform themselves would take hundreds, if not thousands of years.

A better [ humane and responsible] way is to sterilize these creatures periodically and let them live with us .


Let us learn to co-exist peacefully, after all, we are coexisting with far worse and wretched creatures like terrorists and psychopaths . [ mods, please take this off if found offensive, it was just in a lighter note]
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Old 28th February 2015, 00:36   #334
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Default Re: The Street dog menace

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Existing species in the jungle have a fighting chance since they know how live in Jungle, have developed instinct to survive in the wild. The stray dogs will starve to death, if not killed right away by the leopards. Stray dogs are carnivores that are not capable of hunting.
Continuing just for the sake of discussion and no other intention. I feel you are underestimating the adaptability instinct of these dogs. I have myself witnessed a stray female dog in my apartment complex in Delhi hunting pigeons. And I was amazed to see her skills. It wasn't once, not twice but multiple times as if she developed a taste for there meat. She would charge at a group of pigeons sitting in the common apartment garden or would sometimes jump to quite some heights to catch a not so sharp pigeon sitting on the fence or a low lying tree branch. Once she also caught a baby squirrel.

Then I have also witnessed all the dogs in my campus here in Vadodara feed on live insects and frogs which are in abundance here. The campus is literally over run by these large insects and frogs, most in the rainy season but otherwise also can be seen in other months but in lesser numbers. The same dogs bloody refuse to eat bread.

All I am trying to say is that there is a good possibility that these dogs will adapt and start killing other smaller species etc in the jungle. And the speed with which they breed will make sure that they would never go out of existence.

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A better [ humane and responsible] way is to sterilize these creatures periodically and let them live with us .

Let us learn to co-exist peacefully.
At some level, I have never understood this plan of action. If we are able to successfully sterilize them then one day we will extinct them right? Or the better word is eradicate them. Just like diseases example small pox. Vaccinate every person and stop the transmission and voila, you have eradicated the problem. If all dogs get sterilized then there would be no more of them right? How is that co-existing peacefully?

Or are you suggesting we monitor there population and keep them at a fixed number? I guess the word periodical means that only in your post. But that will only bring there numbers down. Some human would still be chased by a dog somewhere in the middle of the night, No?

Last edited by drmohitg : 28th February 2015 at 00:38.
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Old 28th February 2015, 12:47   #335
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Default Re: The Street dog menace

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Continuing just for the sake of discussion and no other intention. I feel you are underestimating the adaptability instinct of these dogs.
I was talking about evolutionary adaptation over 100s of generations. Adaptations within a lifetime is a matter of learning new tricks. That won't give them an edge over other wild animals which have evolutionary advantage of having survived in the wild.

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
I have myself witnessed a stray female dog in my apartment complex in Delhi hunting pigeons. And I was amazed to see her skills. It wasn't once, not twice but multiple times as if she developed a taste for there meat. She would charge at a group of pigeons sitting in the common apartment garden or would sometimes jump to quite some heights to catch a not so sharp pigeon sitting on the fence or a low lying tree branch. Once she also caught a baby squirrel.
This is not something that dog can rely on for 3 meals a day. Also, keep in mind that dogs have no predators among human habitat.

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
All I am trying to say is that there is a good possibility that these dogs will adapt and start killing other smaller species etc in the jungle. And the speed with which they breed will make sure that they would never go out of existence.
We don't have to guess. There are already wild dogs in the jungle, and their predatory ability/technique is well known. They are incapable of hunting alone, unlike a leopard or tiger. They are too small for that. The wild dogs have developed pack hunting capability over thousands of years. Stray dogs simply don't have those ingrained skills. And they have too much competitions from other wild animals and they don't know how to defend against bigger predators. Stray dog is like a successful class bully, but he won't have the same success if dumped in the middle of a battlefield where everybody is a trained killer.

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
At some level, I have never understood this plan of action. If we are able to successfully sterilize them then one day we will extinct them right? .... If all dogs get sterilized then there would be no more of them right? How is that co-existing peacefully?
Nobody wants dogs to go extinct, that is not the plan. Sterilization is about controlling the population of stray dogs, that is stop them from procreating and making more stray dogs. It also ends the genetic line of dogs unfriendly to humans. Afterall, that is how dogs were created, by not breeding dogs with undesirable traits.

Last edited by Samurai : 28th February 2015 at 12:49.
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