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Old 14th August 2014, 16:59   #166
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Default Re: Can we implement this harsh law in India?

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Originally Posted by StepUP! View Post
I feel Pune has got the worst traffic sense
Wrong choice of words. "Worst" implies the presence of something, even if it is at the bottom of the barrel. A more accurate sentence would be "Pune has no traffic sense". And no civic sense. And so on and so forth.

Amen to everything else that you've written.

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 14th August 2014, 17:43   #167
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Default Re: Can we implement this harsh law in India?

Going through this ordeal ever since I started driving. Its like an All-India disease. You would think small towns wouldn't have this kind of conditions, but alas, its the same everywhere. The young will only learn what the elder are doing. Boy sees dad's trimphant look after flying through a red signal and that's what he will do when he gets his hands on the wheel.
Something is very clear: Patience is a virtue, and our roads are filled with motorists who are totally lacking that!
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Old 14th August 2014, 19:37   #168
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Default Re: Can we implement this harsh law in India?

The topic has been discussed in many forums for years (perhaps including teambhp). There is no solution in sight.

There is no social stigma associated with breaking traffic rules in our society. Nobody looks down upon you if you break a traffic rule. Your education level, socio-economic profile, whether you drive a humble 2 wheeler or a high end SUV, nothing nothing seems to make a difference to the urge of breaking the rules.

As individuals all we can do is:

1. Obstinately stay put on the insistence to not cross the line until signal turns green.

2. Develop a deaf ear to honkers on such occasion.

3. Return the "looks" we get for not jumping the signal. No, not an exasperated look, but a "you moron" look that they deserve, with a hint of pride on your face.

4. Encourage friends, family members to do the same, particularly inculcate these values strongly in young ones in the family.

5. Do not bother whether it changes anything. Just continue to do this relentlessly and try and make more and more people known to us to do the same. Do not day dream that this becomes a mass movement. It won't. But why bother as long as you are doing your bit?

Last edited by mayuresh : 14th August 2014 at 19:38.
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Old 14th August 2014, 21:41   #169
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Default Re: Can we implement this harsh law in India?

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Originally Posted by amit View Post

Like corruption, hoodwinking the law is now in our blood, in our DNA. We have no reason to indulge in it but we do it simply because we can.

I read in the paper's that Navi Mumbai traffic has sent a challan with picture to an owner for stopping on zebra crossing. I guess things have started moving slowly.
I disagree that we have it in our DNA. The same Indians behave the best when they are in a controlled and regulated settings like US. I see that Indians are more cautious drivers than Americans and stay within the speed limits and follow rules. The fear of fines and jail and an effect on employment brings compliance.

I agree that technology will have a big role to play in bringing sense. But the moot question is - the conscience of the people who enforce technology, will that be for a justified cause?

The problem is corruption right at the top. If the top guy needs the cut, everybody has to contribute. Pass bad roads, make money from hapless common drivers, and the list can go on.

The rot is much bigger. The least we all can do is to spread the word and stand for the right and not leave a helpless guy become another victim. That happens if we stay united and fight as a group. If the corrupt system can wreak havoc on individuals, we can also stand up a righteous group and create havoc on that entrenched group.
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Old 14th August 2014, 23:40   #170
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Default Re: Can we implement this harsh law in India?

Having law in place and strictly enforcing it is one side of the story but I think there is more to it than just having law and enforcement. People are all so self centered with nil consideration for others, there is no civic sense or safety awareness and to top it up there is this pathetic attitude. Root cause is the attitude. That cannot be changed so fast. It requires proper bringing up and good training/education.

For a temporary remedy, there is nothing else to do other than strictly enforcing the law. In yesterday's news I saw the RTO speaking to the media about various cameras being setup all around the city for more close observation and controlling of traffic violations. New methods being adopted to control speeding of buses and trucks etc. I am just hoping these come in effect atleast to some extent.

BTW, if you see a traffic offense, you can just report it to the regional authorities and they do take action. Recently my friend saw 2 buses racing with each other and coming head on towards him on the wrong side of the divider. He stopped at a distance and took a video footage of this and emailed to the cops. They thanked him for reporting and action was taken against both the buses. Couple of other incidents also happened in similar lines. After seeing action being taken against such acts, I feel there is still some hope of improvement.

But as of now, like mentioned in this thread, our traffic scene is really really poor. It is a mad experience to drive on our roads sometimes. There is a long long way to go for our traffic to come to a bare minimum standard.
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Old 15th August 2014, 06:38   #171
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Default Re: Can we implement this harsh law in India?

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Again people honk and give me dirty looks.
This is something you never have to bother about if your heart says you are doing the right thing.

I have been driving in Pune for 15 years and seeing the things getting worst day by day. I sometimes wonder whether I am doing justice to my kids by growing them up in such an insane environment.

Coming back to law enforcement, there was an attempt made by PMC to introduce CCTV traffic monitoring system where they would capture the license plates of the vehicles breaking traffic laws and a fine of minimum Rs. 500 would be recovered by sending a notice to the registered address of the owner.

Guess what ? this was initiated under the name of 'public and private partnership'!

Which means a local goon would be appointed as 'recovery agent' for the fine imposed by PMC and he would get 70% of the revenue collected by him !

No wonder, the entire project failed before it could take off whereas the CCTV established during initial phase are still doing their duty except no one is monitoring them .

Last edited by Hrishi_111 : 15th August 2014 at 07:05.
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Old 15th August 2014, 07:26   #172
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Default Re: Can we implement this harsh law in India?

Having moved from Delhi to Pune, I have got to say that traffic sense is worse in pune than Delhi and is much more chaotic too if one considers the difference in volume. As already mentioned before in this thread, almost no one here waits for the signal to turn green. I would partly blame the cops too because many a times at intersections manned by them, they themself urge the traffic to start moving before the lights turn green. Similarly most intersection dont have free left hers, but almost no one stops. I have face stares and honkings umpteen number of times when I stop at a signal and wait for the left turn signal to go green. Where as in delhi atleast on the major roads, there is some sort of discipline. Yeah the only solace here is that you dont have to fear for someone banging your car and come out brandishing a gun which can happen up north in delhi.

I dont intend to say that Delhi traffic sense is great but comparitively speaking it is slightly better. Mainly due to the better designed roads too I guess.


However we do need some really strict laws and enforcement to ensure life on indian roads are smoother.
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Old 15th August 2014, 08:54   #173
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Default Re: Can we implement this harsh law in India?

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Originally Posted by vibbs View Post

I don't intend to say that Delhi traffic sense is great but comparatively speaking it is slightly better. Mainly due to the better designed roads too I guess.
.


Let's not run into comparison between cities since situation is almost same everywhere with minor differences here and there. However situation in Pune has worsen due to lack of any sort of sensible public transport. While other cities are getting blessed with Metro's and Mono's, the bus transport itself is about to collapse here.
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Old 15th August 2014, 09:38   #174
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Default Re: Can we implement this harsh law in India?

@StepUp, I guess you have sometimes tried to ask for way when a guy is blocking your legitimate path ? Like at a signal where you can & want to take left, but the guy wont move ?

Well, a similar option can be used. Let them honk. Sometimes need to be like them blockers. Just that this blocking is for a legit reason.
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Old 15th August 2014, 10:38   #175
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Default Re: Can we implement this harsh law in India?

How true for the city once known as a pensioner's paradise..

The Pune traffic police had once implemented a rule which is still being followed, i.e, seat belts. I still remember, in 2008, the drive was so strong that people always wore seat belts in fear of a Rs 500 fine.

I feel something on the same lines should be organized by the Traffic police.
The most dangerous trend is driving in the wrong lane and that too at high speeds.
The requirement of placing cameras at traffic signals to catch offenders is also an inescapable one.

Let's hope someone in the traffic dept reads our posts and does something!

Last edited by nda992 : 15th August 2014 at 10:39. Reason: Wrong grammer
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Old 15th August 2014, 11:40   #176
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Default Re: Can we implement this harsh law in India?

Driving in the wrong direction is very prevalent in Pune. They think driving in wrong diretion is their birth right and even give angry stares when you block them.
Other than that, I think Pune is as bad/good as any other city.
I was taking a turn at the round-about/circle last night and guess what, a biker was coming in wrong direction exactly in my blind spot.
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Old 15th August 2014, 11:48   #177
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Default Re: Can we implement this harsh law in India?

I am a Banglorean now and for the past 8 years driving in and around Bangalore.I feel inside the city the driving had made me lose my cool many times. Scratches on cars are very regular .Autos and bikes kissing the bumpers are not surprising anymore. The best part is that people have came to know about where the security cameras are placed.They will be very nice at the signals and after that these drivers are like in F1 racing. Just to stop at the next signal !
One surprise thing that caught my attention was of my son's reaction when he is inside the car.He tells exactly who had broken the rules and he is proud that his father had not done that.This is one way of getting things better. You show your kids how to drive on a road then there will be very less problems that are listed in the first post.That is what we need to do.So now I see to it that no traffic rules are broken while driving .No road rage nor over speeding. No swearing to other road users. The basic etiquette the parents follow the kids will also follow.
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Old 18th August 2014, 11:52   #178
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Default Re: Can we implement this harsh law in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aneezan View Post
Going through this ordeal ever since I started driving. Its like an All-India disease. You would think small towns wouldn't have this kind of conditions, but alas, its the same everywhere. The young will only learn what the elder are doing. Boy sees dad's trimphant look after flying through a red signal and that's what he will do when he gets his hands on the wheel.
Something is very clear: Patience is a virtue, and our roads are filled with motorists who are totally lacking that!
This is very true. Kids learn through what they see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayuresh View Post
The topic has been discussed in many forums for years (perhaps including teambhp). There is no solution in sight.

There is no social stigma associated with breaking traffic rules in our society. Nobody looks down upon you if you break a traffic rule. Your education level, socio-economic profile, whether you drive a humble 2 wheeler or a high end SUV, nothing nothing seems to make a difference to the urge of breaking the rules.

As individuals all we can do is:

1. Obstinately stay put on the insistence to not cross the line until signal turns green.

2. Develop a deaf ear to honkers on such occasion.

3. Return the "looks" we get for not jumping the signal. No, not an exasperated look, but a "you moron" look that they deserve, with a hint of pride on your face.

4. Encourage friends, family members to do the same, particularly inculcate these values strongly in young ones in the family.

5. Do not bother whether it changes anything. Just continue to do this relentlessly and try and make more and more people known to us to do the same. Do not day dream that this becomes a mass movement. It won't. But why bother as long as you are doing your bit?
Yes I agree. It changes nothing and you get your peace of mind by following rules. But; how long it will go? Daily you start exchanging angry looks, turn deaf ear to honkers. But indeed it affects your mood. I want to stay happy/positive but all these spoil my day. I am feeling if this continues daily; I will turn into one of them. Negative, frustrated. And will have to see a doctor. May be I am an emotional fool

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
@StepUp, I guess you have sometimes tried to ask for way when a guy is blocking your legitimate path ? Like at a signal where you can & want to take left, but the guy wont move ?

Well, a similar option can be used. Let them honk. Sometimes need to be like them blockers. Just that this blocking is for a legit reason.
I know. But it makes me lose my patience and mood. And I am surprised people just observe. No one cares to shout at offenders. They just follow what an offender is ordering like giving a path, jumping signal etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commonman View Post
I am a Banglorean now and for the past 8 years driving in and around Bangalore.I feel inside the city the driving had made me lose my cool many times. Scratches on cars are very regular .Autos and bikes kissing the bumpers are not surprising anymore. The best part is that people have came to know about where the security cameras are placed.They will be very nice at the signals and after that these drivers are like in F1 racing. Just to stop at the next signal !
One surprise thing that caught my attention was of my son's reaction when he is inside the car.He tells exactly who had broken the rules and he is proud that his father had not done that.This is one way of getting things better. You show your kids how to drive on a road then there will be very less problems that are listed in the first post.That is what we need to do.So now I see to it that no traffic rules are broken while driving .No road rage nor over speeding. No swearing to other road users. The basic etiquette the parents follow the kids will also follow.
May be we should start teaching kids about traffic rules and regulations from the school itself. When they will ask their dads about jumping the signal, things will change a bit.
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Old 2nd September 2014, 00:39   #179
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Default Re: Road Sense and No Sense of responsibility

I agree to what Mayuresh told, we should instill the sense of pride in obeying the laws in the younger ones at our home. This will make a difference some years down the lane. Also, I do not agree that we do have this attitude in our DNA, we are the best to follow the rules when we are out of India.

Also, I do not agree to India bashing or Indian bashing. It has a lot to do with our education system, we currently lack value in education that our elders had. We barb a lot on the corruption, however, we would overlook our own activities that aid to corruption.

Let me take my own example
1. I was charged for parking at "no parking" last Sunday. The police officer asked me Rs.475/- (now I don't know what that calculation is), I was there "negotiating" the charge and finally paid Rs.200 for which a duly signed receipt was given. In that challan, the charges for my wrong doing was 100 & charges for locking my car and unlocking it was 100. There was another guy, who was not ready to wait and he paid Rs.475, and when I saw him in the supermarket, I asked him for the challan. We both were charged under the same section (as per the receipt), however, he was charged 375/- for the offence and 100 for locking and unlocking and I was charged 100/- each. Now, I am not sure which is right (many people were paying 200/-). To add, there was another guy with me who was negotiating with the officer to waive off his charges and he was referring to an school which was run by him in that locality. He knew the previous officer and was quoting his name etc. and after a lot of negotiations (for about 10 mins), I was called, I paid and moved on, but I feel he went scott free. Now relate it to the kind of value system he can impart to his students.
2. I am at Chennai for the last 2 years, but I have not re-registered my bike or car here or paid the road tax in TN. For my Accent (2009 April make), they wanted me to shell out 73,836/- and for Discover (2005 Aug make) it is 9132/- (both just tax and not re-register). I asked them is there a way to pay year on year, they said no, I have to pay for 15 years. I asked them if I go back after 2 years, will I get rest of my money back, they say no. It does not make any sense for me to pay these amount when I consider the resale value and the fact that I intend to move back to Bangalore in less than year (let the Almighty bless me for that). I pay 100-500 bucks each time a traffic police catches me for this reason. Many-a-times, I spent 10 mins "negotiating" and then settling in 100, but there were instances when I had paid 300 & 500.

To sum it up, we look for ways to get around a law when caught as that is what we are used to, but will get offended when others do so. Why do we get around the law? In my opinion, a commoner getting into the legal web will get stuck and the only way to come out is to have some "connections" or a "heavy purse", so, it is simple not to get into the web.

Last edited by Jakku : 2nd September 2014 at 00:50. Reason: Adding some more matter.
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Old 4th September 2014, 19:11   #180
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Default Re: Road Sense and No Sense of responsibility

Going to add this here.

Was returning from office by car a bit back, I was at a signal two men on bikes squeezed into the gap left between my car the the car beside me. Signal started Biker 1 sped ahead, immediately Biker 2 sped ahead cutting me off and then started riding along each other, he and the other guy then literally started talking, laughing, joking with each other in the middle of a main road like a couple strolling in a park.

I was passing by them when one of this biker lost his balance, hit my left hand side rear view mirror and fell rite on my car door. Thanks to this guy I now have a free dent rite in the middle of the door, and a lot of scratches. I quickly stopped to check on him and my car when Biker 1 comes over and tell me sir let him go luckily he did not come under your wheels, he was quite close when he fell.

My hate for bikes just increased, both these guys were not even wearing helmets. In a city like mumbai, bikers, rickshaw drivers are paramount menace.
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