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Old 31st August 2008, 18:28   #16
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Indians are more efficient and thus making full use of the road
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Old 31st August 2008, 18:31   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottle View Post
Indians are more efficient and thus making full use of the road
But few of them are uncivilized (as in the above picture 1)
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Old 31st August 2008, 18:59   #18
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Someone do a mouse-over on the first pic, and check out how its been named!

That apart, i also drive the same way as those shown in the first pic. Reason? I am left with little choice, else.

Imagine someone who sticks to his lane, is kind to other fellow drivers on the road, and you would notice that he earns the wrath of all those following his car. I used to be a 'good' driver, but not anymore (Atleast not always). I have finally become an 'Indian'.
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Old 31st August 2008, 19:18   #19
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You are all talking about crowded cities, you should check out the small town scene. Despite having no crowd on the road, people break rules all the time or that's what I thought.

But now I know better. They are not breaking rules, they are simply not aware of it. Not just uneducated people, everybody, even highly educated people. In fact, I am not even sure whether Indian traffic rules mention how to handle each traffic situation.

I follow traffic rules meticulously unless I am forced to do otherwise, yeah, that happens. But you know how many times I get looks, strong stares, honks for following rules, practically everyday.

Here is an example, how does one turn right on a busy 2 lane (one lane each way and no divider) road?

I have to do it everyday to get home from the town. So I put right turn signal well in advance, and if there is on-coming traffic, I stop on my lane (right next to the imaginary divider) until they pass by and then make my right turn. This usually frustrates two kinds of people, (1) Vehicles behind me honk at me cursing that I stopped on the middle of the road. This is despite the fact there is enough room on my left for even a bus to pass. But they do give me earful before passing by the left. Some geniuses (usually bikers) even pass from the right (wrong lane) honking at me. (2) This one is even funnier, the vehicles coming on the wrong side from the front also honk at me for having blocked their way.

Do you know how some careful people make the same turn? If there is oncoming traffic, they pull over to the left shoulder until the traffic clears and then cross both lanes in one shot. And there are careless people who ignore the oncoming traffic and turn anyway. I have seen very few who turn like me. Now, how do I know what I do is correct according to Indian traffic law? I don't, I have never seen any tip published about this in India. But I know it is the correct method having driven in USA.

Sorry, this chaos in our traffic is not because of population or education (as in college degree). It is because of lack of driver education, and lack of enforcement. I think they should have driver education in the highschool as part of regular curriculum. Only then they might actually know what traffic rules are in place and how to drive on public roads.
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Old 31st August 2008, 19:21   #20
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I have lived in East-Africa also

Since fairness creams and colour plays big part in our society, my impression is that Indians look down on Africa.
(The fact is Africans are most FIT an FRIENDLY people on earth - Indians are not white enough to even complain! duh!)

When a gora tourist comes to india, indians will bend down, but when an African comes to india, they are not treated with respect - Yet Indians demand respect when they travel to Africa- WHY?

But it will be India who will be begging them in future for all the natural resources that they have which India does not.
China is already getting their share of Africa, not sure if India is going to get it.

~

I can tell you that Africans driving style is at par with any western country. They dare not jump the red light!
Even AFRICA can do it right!! 2 lanes, 2 lines of vehicles. Simple.
It is was a pleasure driving there. In fact i noticed a few Gujrati people using HORN disturbing the peace of their country.
Here is my proof, i took these pics, I even made a video.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by aerohit : 31st August 2008 at 19:30.
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Old 31st August 2008, 19:29   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudipto-S-Team View Post
In the first picture 90 per cent of those who are driving have education that is below class X. Many got their driving license by putting left thumb impression on the application form (the form has this provision, if you notice). Also they are first generation drivers and their parents never even rode a bus or train let alone drive a car.
Many spit in their own bed room.
The second picture is quite the opposite. The drivers who are driving there had their fathers, fathers' grandfathers drive before them. So they know what's what.
Education happens when a person learns something - through a process.

Discipline is something a whole society is taught - through practice.

Dont mix up the two - you dont have to be 'educated' to be disciplined. Again, if society is indisciplined no amount of education can bring order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
If you ban 2 wheelers & 3 wheelers, then immediately 1st pic will look 2nd pic.
Like wise, if you introduce 2 wheelers & 3 wheeler, 2nd pic will look like 1st pic.
Do you really think so? It doesnt matter how many wheels you have, and you're assuming that everyone on 4 wheels is disciplined, which is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
Show the second picture to our government engineers and politicians and ask them if they can give us roads like that.
I have, in one of my phones, a picture of 5 (YES, FIVE) slow moving trucks trying to overtake each other side-by-side on an uphill section the 4-lane section (2 lanes per side, one entire side occupied by the 5 trucks) of the Bangalore-Salem road at 2 am in the morning - blocking every other vehicle on the road behind them.

I finally managed to break this ridiculous procession by squeezing the Safari through the muddy roadside (not the shoulder, mind you - that was occupied by yet another truck) and braking my truck to stop right in front of 3 of them. I got some waves of thanks from the motorists who were then able to cross, but...

do you really think giving them better roads is the answer?

Last edited by Steeroid : 31st August 2008 at 19:42.
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Old 31st August 2008, 19:38   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
But now I know better. They are not breaking rules, they are simply not aware of it. Not just uneducated people, everybody, even highly educated people. In fact, I am not even sure whether Indian traffic rules mention how to handle each traffic situation
The africans in the above pic were never educated (in a classroom or by driving instructor). This is just a culture. The culture is followed throughout..... You know what i mean?


Also i have to blame old Indian movies for contributing to bad driving culture. You will often see Hero singing a song, hands off the steering wheel, and pee-pee (horn), specially in the older movies, also found in new movies. It eventually becomes a culture.
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Old 31st August 2008, 20:17   #23
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I agree, 'Driving Education' is the issue. To address this,
  1. it must be recognized as a problem
  2. a plan to address the education part
  3. a plan to address the implementation part
  • Apart from few members of TBHP, does anybody else recognize this as a problem?
  • Those who recognize it, do they choose to ignore it as a 'Social Evil'?
  • Why people compare with other countries and then recognize as a problem? Can't Indians themselves see a problem and find a solution?
Note: People mention that even 'University Degree' holders don't follow lane discipline. In my 16 years of education, nobody told me to follow lane discipline; nobody explained the advantages of lane-discipline.
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Old 31st August 2008, 20:54   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
I agree, 'Driving Education' is the issue. To address this,
  1. it must be recognized as a problem
  2. a plan to address the education part
  3. a plan to address the implementation part
Even on this website you are to follow rules or else you get banned, dont you?
You may follow rules on this website, but you may not on another.

So, it is the enforcement that lacks

A lot of people are aware of rules but their mentality is "chalta hai"


As mentioned on page 1, Armed police + One danda per violation rule
This is the only way these people are going to change - The hard way!

People in other countries dont follow rules because they like to - They do so because they are scared of getting Ticket or going to Jail !

DANDA POWER!


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Last edited by aerohit : 31st August 2008 at 20:58.
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Old 31st August 2008, 20:55   #25
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Why only driving on road-behaviour of Indians in general is disgusting, to say the least. However, when the same Indian go abroad, they becomes most law abiding persons. It proves that we Indians can behave when we fear law will be enforced strictly.
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Old 31st August 2008, 23:18   #26
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Its lack of indiscipline and nothing else. Education does not matter here, no way. Figure out this.
My neighbour got liscence when he is still 17 and has liscene to drive cars. My college friends dont know how to park or how to drive and many of them dont even have liscnese ( they have got license to drive cars and are right now learning how to ride when they have license to drive cars ). Some residents of my neighbouring society are very, very well educated and from " good " family culture. They stop anywhere on the road and start talking if someone they know is coming from opposite direction. I dont want to comment on their educational qualification, but none of them are even under graduates. All have completed graduation.

But their kids drive motorcycles when they are in 10th standard. They have shown in plans that their approach to T.P. road is from South direction, but in fact they have given the approach from West. This creates a lot of mess for us.
So IMO, its not education that matters. Its the level of thinking and discipline that is important.

So the first picture basically shows what Indian culture is and what we are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
For a given space, the 1st pic has more vehicles. Also the variety (size & length) of vehicles in 1st pic more.

If you ban 2 wheelers & 3 wheelers, then immediately 1st pic will look 2nd pic.
Like wise, if you introduce 2 wheelers & 3 wheeler, 2nd pic will look like 1st pic.

...
Banning two or three wheelers wont solve the problems. And introducing two wheelers and three wheelers in second picture wont make it look like first picture. And as speed in the second picture is more, the two wheelers or three wheelers or four wheelers wont be crawling as they are following lane driving.


In the first picture, people have created their own lanes. This is not true in case of second picture. So if in the first picture if everyone followed the lane driving, then it would certainly look more like second picture.

What is more important as per my opinion is that we must follow lane driving and most of the problems will be solved.


@ aerohit:

I believe that forcing a thing like one danda wont solve our problem. We dont even have sufficient police force ( in numbers atleast, forget quality ) to manage this.
The root of this problem is out mentality and we must attack on root. It will take time, but once this is improved, then it will last forever. Enforcement is like compelling a person do a thing and mostly the quality suffers here.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 31st August 2008 at 23:22.
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Old 31st August 2008, 23:19   #27
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While the picture does indeed tell a story of how disciplined the drivers in other countries are vis a vis India, its still not the complete picture.

When you have as much population density as we have here, these problems are bound to happen.

Lets look at the flipside. Assuming you want to arrive at a situation similar to pic 2, what would that entail?
Better roads, and more roads, which means more funds, which in turn means more toll or usage charges
Better vehicles, which mean phasing out older vehicles, and stopping 2 and 3 wheelers, overloaded goods vehicles etc from using these roads, which means restricting road usage to a priviledged few.
Strict implementation of road laws, which means more licenses revoked, more fines, more arrests. Now how many of us can honestly claim to have never bribed a cop to look the other way?

Also, please remember, that given the limited resources we have, and the large population, our situation is not that bad. Like some folks have pointed out, we need some time to come to terms with modern technology, and we will improve with time. Please dont be so harsh on India and Indians, its not like things are so messed up here. I'm not trying to justify the situation. Pic 2 is definitely more desirable than Pic 1, and we definitely need better road sense, and better roads, and better vehicles, but lets be practical, change is mostly gradual, and it begins with all of us. By pointing the finger at each other, how are we helping things?

How about looking at how we can all contribute to make a better India. Lets all strive to never cut lanes, never honk, never bribe, never drive after drinking, never break the law in letter and spirit.

Instead of changing the world, change ourself first.
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Old 31st August 2008, 23:32   #28
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Now that I recall, you guys should see that entrance to Goethals bridge from NJ side when there is a backup, it is not too different from the first photo.

Can NJ/NY boys snap a picture?
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Old 31st August 2008, 23:35   #29
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Which is that school that offers 'graduation in driving'? And the students of this driving school, even after getting a 'degree in driving', still drive like nincompoops?

If you meant regular degree, like arts, science or commerce, then as far as I know, they don't teach (even remotely) either driving or traffic etiquette.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Some residents of my neighbouring society are very, very well educated and from " good " family culture. They stop anywhere on the road and start talking if someone they know is coming from opposite direction. I dont want to comment on their educational qualification, but none of them are even under graduates. All have completed graduation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
I agree, 'Driving Education' is the issue.Note: People mention that even 'University Degree' holders don't follow lane discipline. In my 16 years of education, nobody told me to follow lane discipline; nobody explained the advantages of lane-discipline.
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Old 31st August 2008, 23:58   #30
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This thread is useless , we will never learn
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