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Old 14th October 2008, 16:40   #16
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Originally Posted by abdriver2000 View Post
It is very easy for car owners to blame bikers and vice versa, unless you are both a biker and a driver and understand the dynamics of driving as well as riding.

ntomer accepts the fact that he was overtaking from the wrong side. He also accepts the fact that he ran away from the spot knowing that the biker was stranded. He is also planning to stay away from the route for a few days.

Sorry if I sound rude, but this clearly proves his fault. So what if his own damage is 10 times, he brought it upon himself. I am surprised that people on this forum are trying to 'help' him without even knowing the other side of the coin.

In most cases, the biker ends up paying from his pocket, since he does not want to claim insurance for a few hundreds. Contrastingly, the car owner will gladly get all his 'other' dents also covered in the claim.
You cannot make that judgement and blame ntomer ONLY, wasnt the biker also overtaking from the left ??

In certain situations we cannot go blindly by the book and overtake only from the right. On indian roads you have to be careful anticipating each other moves and adjust accordingly.

I have driven bikes for many year for my work and even before that, travelling 70kms a day in Delhi traffic many times.
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Old 14th October 2008, 16:47   #17
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Originally Posted by abdriver2000 View Post
It is difficult to gauge in this case if the motorcyclist was overtaking or if he was simply in the blind spot. Just putting on the indicators does not absolve you of the responsibily of looking for other vehicles in the vicinity. Personally, I switch on indicators even when changing lanes, but never overtake from the wrong side. It comes quite easily with practice.
Dear AB,

I've mentioned quite clearly in my earlier posts that the biker was not in my blind spot. I've checked in the left ORVM and he was nowhere. He tried to overtake both me and the truck when he saw the truck slowing down.

So you never overtake from the wrong side!!! What would you have done in situation like mine?

\N
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Old 14th October 2008, 17:05   #18
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Originally Posted by abdriver2000 View Post

Sorry if I sound rude, but this clearly proves his fault. So what if his own damage is 10 times, he brought it upon himself. I am surprised that people on this forum are trying to 'help' him without even knowing the other side of the coin.
What is his fault, not staying behind the tractor going at 20kmph at the right most lane for the rest of the journey? As long as people in India do not know how to use highways, we have to overtake from the left.
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Old 14th October 2008, 17:17   #19
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Originally Posted by ntomer View Post
Dear AB,

I've mentioned quite clearly in my earlier posts that the biker was not in my blind spot. I've checked in the left ORVM and he was nowhere. He tried to overtake both me and the truck when he saw the truck slowing down.

So you never overtake from the wrong side!!! What would you have done in situation like mine?

\N
Did you even try signalling to the heavy vehicle in front of you to move to the left and let you pass? That would have been the safest option.

The fact that the biker was not showing up in your ORVM means he was in a blind spot. Even if I give the benefit of doubt that the biker was overtaking, he might not have seen you from behind the truck or he never expected you to cut his trajectory. I would say, lack of judgement from both parties.

Also, suggesting to go to the cops may act as a deterrent to the biker but may not help your case. Normally they hold the larger vehicle at fault. Besides they can impound your vehicle until the matter is resolved.

IMHO, just thank your stars, you were lucky. Move on with your life. I can understand your frustration at the moment. Maybe if you think with a cool head, you would agree that the fault was not bikers alone.
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Old 14th October 2008, 17:31   #20
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Originally Posted by abdriver2000 View Post
Did you even try signalling to the heavy vehicle in front of you to move to the left and let you pass? That would have been the safest option.
I agree that it would be safe for ntomer, not for the biker.

Please remember that we are using indian roads where people do not use lanes based on the speeds and our roads are full of intersections. Anything is possible!!

I use both bike and car. I have been an avid biker during my college days.
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Old 14th October 2008, 17:52   #21
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Originally Posted by ntomer View Post
Dear AB,

I've mentioned quite clearly in my earlier posts that the biker was not in my blind spot. I've checked in the left ORVM and he was nowhere.
You would have checked properly, but just wanted to point out as a general comment- ORVM may not show if someone is in the blind spot (and that's why it is called blind spot) and it is necessary to check physically (turning your neck) before changing the entire lane.

Last edited by Guna : 14th October 2008 at 17:54.
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Old 14th October 2008, 18:09   #22
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Did you even try signalling to the heavy vehicle in front of you to move to the left and let you pass? That would have been the safest option.
I tried that! It was a MCD tractor and no force can make them move from the lane they are in. It's a fact, any delhiite can vouch for this.

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Originally Posted by abdriver2000 View Post
The fact that the biker was not showing up in your ORVM means he was in a blind spot. Even if I give the benefit of doubt that the biker was overtaking, he might not have seen you from behind the truck or he never expected you to cut his trajectory. I would say, lack of judgement from both parties.

Maybe if you think with a cool head, you would agree that the fault was not bikers alone.
I am really not able to understand what was my fault. I checked to the best of my abilities that nobody was coming. After your post, I drove my car to the nearest clear road, and checked for any possible blind-spots. There is no way I could fail to spot a biker on my immediate left.

I turned-on the indicator to signal that I am turning towards left. The truck guy saw that slowed down to let me pass. If that biker would have been paying attention, he would have also seen that.

I am really trying to understand your point of view, and would really appreciate if you may share what you would have done in these circumstances.

Cheers

Nitin
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Old 14th October 2008, 19:18   #23
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Originally Posted by abdriver2000 View Post
Personally, I switch on indicators even when changing lanes, but never overtake from the wrong side. It comes quite easily with practice.
So, lets say you are on Mathura Road (NH2), which is part of the route taken by Ntomer, you have a tractor on the right lane travelling at 20 kmph & with NO INTENTIONS of moving across to the left lane & letting you pass - in fact, if he deigns to acknowledge you, he will ask you (with a wave of his hand) to overtake him from the left (LOL) - and you will also follow him tamely at 20 kmph till such time that he leaves NH2???

Wow, simply amazing isn't it? And all others who religiously overtake from the right would continue to follow you and the tractor. And very soon, you'd have a Delhi marathon kind of situation with the entire right lane of NH2 moving at 20 kmph. Sorry abdriver2000, but you have me in splits

And the best part of it is that your fellow biker continues to overtake everyone from the left - but that's OK because he's only a poor biker who will not file an insurance claim. No offense but - please do get a life man & get real.

Last edited by suman : 14th October 2008 at 19:22.
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Old 14th October 2008, 19:39   #24
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abd, lets face it. Just because a bike is a narrow thing that can be swerved and manoueverd the way we like the bikers tend to overdo it. If a truck all of a sudden starts slowing down a car driver will go to his left but will crane his neck once to see if the road ahead is clear so that he can overtake the slowing down truck. However you can bet your last penny on the fact that 8 out of 10 bikers will just swerve like a racer and try to shoot through the gap on the left without bothering to think why the truck started slowing down all of a sudden. To them its just an opportunity, thats it.

And I am saying this from my umpteen experiences. Both as a biker as well as a car driver. In fact my bike bears a bad scar till this date, a slightly bent fork, from a bad dash that another stupid biker gave it doing something very similar to what happened in this case.

Last edited by Zappo : 14th October 2008 at 19:40.
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Old 14th October 2008, 20:10   #25
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Originally Posted by ntomer View Post
After your post, I drove my car to the nearest clear road, and checked for any possible blind-spots.
I think we are not talking about a blind spot present on the road but the blind spot that happens becasue of the relative location of two vehicles. Normally a vehicle hanging around the C pillar of your car on the adjusant lane is in a blind spot becasue it neither shows up in the ORVM nor in the direct zone of vision.
Check this out
Image:Blindspot three cars illus.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by Guna : 14th October 2008 at 20:13.
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Old 14th October 2008, 20:31   #26
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I am really not able to understand what was my fault. I checked to the best of my abilities that nobody was coming. After your post, I drove my car to the nearest clear road, and checked for any possible blind-spots. There is no way I could fail to spot a biker on my immediate left.

I turned-on the indicator to signal that I am turning towards left. The truck guy saw that slowed down to let me pass. If that biker would have been paying attention, he would have also seen that.

I am really trying to understand your point of view, and would really appreciate if you may share what you would have done in these circumstances.

Cheers

Nitin
So you are sure you did not see the biker. And you are also sure the biker should have seen you??!!

My point of view is simple, the accident would not have been caused had you been a little more cautious. I am not saying you weren't, but you need to be a lot extra when you know, you are not following the standard procedure.

If I were in your place, I would have followed the slow-poke for some distance, till he allowed me to pass. If the situation was really bad as you say, I would have allowed the truck to overtake me first and only then attempt to overtake when I could see my back clearly.

I know I have used strong words, but I stand by each and every word. I have driven dozens of vehicles and bikes in India and abroad and this is not the first time fellow countrymen have laughed or scoffed at me for following the rules strictly. I would rather be safe than sorry.

I rest my case.
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Old 14th October 2008, 20:59   #27
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Originally Posted by abdriver2000 View Post

I rest my case.
Good argument....

However, wasnt the biker also overtaking ntomer from the left (read wrong) side??

So isnt the biker at as much fault as ntomer is, if any?

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 14th October 2008, 21:32   #28
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I am not familiar with this road. But looks like this is a divided road (ie. one with median in the middle and at least 2 lanes. What was a two wheeler doing somewhere in the middle of a multi lane road?
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Old 15th October 2008, 10:44   #29
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I am not familiar with this road. But looks like this is a divided road (ie. one with median in the middle and at least 2 lanes. What was a two wheeler doing somewhere in the middle of a multi lane road?
You are absolutely correct about the type of road - with a median & in certain places stretching to three lanes on each side.. I think Zappo has summed it up very nicely below -

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If a truck all of a sudden starts slowing down a car driver will go to his left but will crane his neck once to see if the road ahead is clear so that he can overtake the slowing down truck. However you can bet your last penny on the fact that 8 out of 10 bikers will just swerve like a racer and try to shoot through the gap on the left without bothering to think why the truck started slowing down all of a sudden. To them its just an opportunity, thats it.
I've lost count of how many times in a single day I face this issue of bikers shooting through almost non-existent gaps - I see them do gyrations on their bikes to prevent hitting numerous car OSRVMs, bumpers etc, sometimes the car owners are lucky, most times there is a thud, a scratch & lo-behold, the biker has vanished!

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I rest my case.
A wise decision mate - I think you should.

Last edited by suman : 15th October 2008 at 10:46.
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Old 15th October 2008, 12:17   #30
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My two cents:

Does this absolve you of your mistake in case of a mishap? What if I can't read English?

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Originally Posted by abdriver2000 View Post

I own a car and a bike myself and the bumper sticker on my car reads (CAUTION: I follow all traffic rules.)
How many times hay you tried signalling for a pass and the vehicle in front has not responded and continued in the right lane? What do you do when faced with this situation?

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Originally Posted by abdriver2000 View Post
Did you even try signalling to the heavy vehicle in front of you to move to the left and let you pass? That would have been the safest option.

Last edited by gd1418 : 15th October 2008 at 12:21.
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