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Old 15th October 2008, 13:39   #31
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Originally Posted by AbhiJ View Post
Good argument....

However, wasnt the biker also overtaking ntomer from the left (read wrong) side??

So isnt the biker at as much fault as ntomer is, if any?

Just my 2 cents.
Please go through my earlier posts. I have said it was lack fo judgement from both parties. I have never given a clean chit to the biker.

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Originally Posted by suman View Post
You are absolutely correct about the type of road - with a median & in certain places stretching to three lanes on each side.. I think Zappo has summed it up very nicely below -


I've lost count of how many times in a single day I face this issue of bikers shooting through almost non-existent gaps - I see them do gyrations on their bikes to prevent hitting numerous car OSRVMs, bumpers etc, sometimes the car owners are lucky, most times there is a thud, a scratch & lo-behold, the biker has vanished!


A wise decision mate - I think you should.
You are right. I have had bikers hit my ORVMs while I am waiting at the signals and they are trying to pass. But in this case, error of judgment occurred with both parties, not just one.

As far as resting the case is concerned, it does not mean I take my words back. It just means I do not want to argue endlessly. I am simply outnumbered by people on this forum who think:
1. Wrong overtaking by the driver is fine, but by biker is not.
2. Online sympathy for driver is fine, public sympathy for biker is not.

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Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
My two cents:

Does this absolve you of your mistake in case of a mishap? What if I can't read English?
No, it does not absolve me of anything. You can call it a public awareness message, maybe. I once saw a message on a Mumbai auto - Chitke to fatke! I guess everyone can read and understand that

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Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post

How many times hay you tried signalling for a pass and the vehicle in front has not responded and continued in the right lane? What do you do when faced with this situation?
In this regard, I feel highway drivers are more co-operative than city drivers. Honking or flashing lights incessantly will not help you. Stay calm and you will prevail. If I were in this situation, I would be defensive rather than aggressive. If and only if the road behind me is clear, would I attempt to overtake from wrong side. Few minutes of slowing down works better for me than few days at the garage.


Gentlemen, in my entire duration at Team-bhp, I have always thought of us as responsible people with mutual respect for other road-users. Only in this case, there seems to be overwhelming support for a person who has actually admitted to his mistake, though partially. I responded to this thread only because no one else was looking at the other side of the coin.

ntomer: Please do not feel offended or take this as personal attack. Mistakes do occur. At the end of it, what matters is the lesson you learnt.
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Old 15th October 2008, 14:46   #32
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Originally Posted by abdriver2000 View Post
I have said it was lack fo judgement from both parties. I have never given a clean chit to the biker.
I am still not clear, what I lacked in judgment. I signaled that I intend to overtake by turning the indicator on, the trucker saw it and slowed down. I also checked whether anybody was on my left, and started the overtaking maneuver only after that. The biker thought of it as an overtaking opportunity for himself and in the process hit me, how it was lack of judgment on my part?

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Originally Posted by abdriver2000 View Post
You are right. I have had bikers hit my ORVMs while I am waiting at the signals and they are trying to pass. But in this case, error of judgment occurred with both parties, not just one.
Again, how?

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Originally Posted by abdriver2000 View Post
Gentlemen, in my entire duration at Team-bhp, I have always thought of us as responsible people with mutual respect for other road-users. Only in this case, there seems to be overwhelming support for a person who has actually admitted to his mistake, though partially. I responded to this thread only because no one else was looking at the other side of the coin.

ntomer: Please do not feel offended or take this as personal attack. Mistakes do occur. At the end of it, what matters is the lesson you learnt.
In the OP, I have mentioned that I was overtaking from the wrong side, but in cases one has to do it, there is just no other alternative. What other mistake I have accepted or committed.

And there are hardly any lessons learnt, if I am in the same situation again, I'll have to do the same again. And if some biker again decides to be adventurous, I doubt I'll be able to do much about that either.

\N
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Old 15th October 2008, 15:22   #33
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Originally Posted by ntomer View Post

And there are hardly any lessons learnt, if I am in the same situation again, I'll have to do the same again. And if some biker again decides to be adventurous, I doubt I'll be able to do much about that either.

\N
My friend, you need to understand the concept of blind spots very clearly to avoid a repeat of this incident. Guna has posted a very nice link in this thread to understand the same.

Blind spot is something that cannot be seen, but has to be judged. In an open area, try telling your friend to stand behind your stationary car about 3-5 metres away. At some point you will not be able to see him in your ORVM, just like the biker.

Also, if it was a sunny morning, your side indicators may not have shown very clearly. It is like reading a cellphone under the sun. Trucker may not have slowed only because of the indicators. He probably slowed down because he wanted to maintain a safe distance. Since the biker was coming from behind the truck, it would have been difficult for him to spot your indicators.

Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand.
-Chinese Proverb
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Old 15th October 2008, 15:40   #34
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Abd2000, why don't you drop it now

We all understand now that -
  • It was not the bikers fault
  • It was Ntomer's fault & his alone
  • The biker just HAD TO HAVE BEEN IN NTOMER'S BLIND SPOT even though he was nowhere in sight when Ntomer last checked his mirrors
  • Indicators cannot be seen on sunny mornings
Please add on to this whatever else I may have missed.

PS: Try using a Nokia 6300, you won't have any problems reading it in the brightest of sunlight

PPS: After all that, you've also gone & contradicted yourself -
Quote:
Originally Posted by abdriver2000 View Post
Since the biker was coming from behind the truck, it would have been difficult for him to spot your indicators.
Now, don't tell me you can't figure out why I'm saying that you've contradicted yourself?

Last edited by suman : 15th October 2008 at 15:44.
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Old 15th October 2008, 15:50   #35
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Ooops that was indeed close! The biker seem to have made up his mind to paisa wasool from you...good you dint budge
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Old 15th October 2008, 16:06   #36
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I had come across this interesting way of eliminating blind spots altogether. Please be warned that in countries like US, checking blindspots by turning your head, is one of the parameters they check during behind the wheel tests for getting a driving license.

Although turning your head to check blindspot is recommended way even by driving schools abroad (have no experience with local driving schools, as I had learned driving from my friends/family members), there is a totally new way to avoid blindspots totally, by adjusting the rear view mirrors in a particular way. One example of that is How to Set Rearview Mirrors to Eliminate Blind Spots - wikiHow

On another note, I feel really surprised at the encouraging comments given to a person who really accepts he is partially responsible for the incident and left the scene of the accident without providing support for the victim of an accident, how trivial it may be. And also the way people who bash the person who is trying to give a relatively neutral view of the incident.
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Old 15th October 2008, 16:07   #37
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I think the point is being missed here. abdriver is trying to explore if there is some other angle which we are missing in the incident so that such situations could be handled better in future.

Last edited by Guna : 15th October 2008 at 16:09.
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Old 15th October 2008, 16:13   #38
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Gentlemen, do we take it that even if the tractor had given right of way and moved to the left he would have strained his neck (due to the lack of ORVMs) and turned around to ensure that the bike was not overtaking from the left?

Even if this had been done, wouldn't the motorcyclist still not have lost control of his speeding bike and hit the rear of the tractor? I'm just wondering.

Whatever said and done it is common road sense that if hit from the rear, normally it is the vehicle following you who is at fault, for he is the one without any blind spot and a clear line of vision.
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Old 15th October 2008, 16:42   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
I think the point is being missed here. abdriver is trying to explore if there is some other angle which we are missing in the incident so that such situations could be handled better in future.
Thanks buddy, you seem to be the only person understanding the point here.

Friends, please treat this as my last post on this topic.
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Old 15th October 2008, 16:57   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suren181 View Post
Whatever said and done it is common road sense that if hit from the rear, normally it is the vehicle following you who is at fault, for he is the one without any blind spot and a clear line of vision.
Nicely summed up Suren, thanks

I'm out of this thread now.
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Old 15th October 2008, 17:03   #41
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The same thing all most happened to me today morning.

I had put my left indicator signaling that I want to take a left turn. This stupid biker was behind me for a while and saw me taking a left turn.
Now I have started taking the the left turn. OIur hero does what stupid bikers do best, He overtakes me from the left while im negotiating this turn. I brake hard and stop.

He gives me a look and zooms away.

Oh and he was driving a blue honda Dio must have been 21-23 years of age.

well said suren181

Last edited by Gregory : 15th October 2008 at 17:05.
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Old 15th October 2008, 17:10   #42
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Originally Posted by Gregory View Post
The same thing all most happened to me today morning.

I had put my left indicator signaling that I want to take a left turn. This stupid biker was behind me for a while and saw me taking a left turn.
Now I have started taking the the left turn. OIur hero does what stupid bikers do best, He overtakes me from the left while im negotiating this turn. I brake hard and stop.

He gives me a look and zooms away.

Oh and he was driving a blue honda Dio must have been 21-23 years of age.

well said suren181
I do not know if this is common everywhere, but in Bangalore it very certainly is!! I encounter this almost twice-a-day when I try to enter my office premises and when I try and enter my house gates.
Sometimes I get the urge to let him ram into my car and give him a piece of my mind, but the thought of getting my gurl (car) hurt stops me form doing it.
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Old 16th October 2008, 01:45   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
You would have checked properly, but just wanted to point out as a general comment- ORVM may not show if someone is in the blind spot (and that's why it is called blind spot) and it is necessary to check physically (turning your neck) before changing the entire lane.
I agree and have learnt this the hard way. When moving right or left, first switch on your turn signal/indicator, then look at the inside rear view mirror, then look at the ORVM, and then look over your shoulder for any traffic in the blind spots.

I used to think that if one adjusts the ORVM away from the car enough, blind spots can be eliminated and there is no need to look over one's shoulder. I was wrong and almost had a major accident. After that, I now encourage drivers to look over their shoulders to reduce blind spots. Blind spots cannot be eminated unless you drive a car with a glass canopy and have eyes in the back of your head. So, in an effort to reduce, not eliminate, blind spots, always use your correctly adjusted mirrors and make sure to look over your shoulder.

And those who are unable or too lazy to look over their shoulders, are not fit, in my humble opinion (imho), to retain their driving licenses.
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Old 16th October 2008, 01:56   #44
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Suren, I completely agree with you.

I encounter bikers overtake me from left side when I negotitate a left turn using car. I always switch indicator while taking the turns. I think they either lack common sense or believe they are small enough not to get hit and be in the receiving end.

I am a biker and I never do that. I cannot live without the left side outer rear view mirror of my car because of them.

Last edited by PatienceWins : 16th October 2008 at 01:58.
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Old 16th October 2008, 02:05   #45
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Hmm,

All these fun threads happen when I'm off the forum for a coupla days

I've been on both sides - thankfully in the almost-touched zone only.

I'd agree with Suren, and I'd much rather go ahead and put the blame squarely on the biker (I should know, I do some 70km on a regular day biking in similar madness speeds of 90+ ). My thoughts:
- Our tomer ji, had put his indicators on. A Getz is too big to miss!
- The dude should've also known that there was a tractor precipitating this accident, AND that there's a truck behind his bum right there. SNAFU time!
- And frankly,the only reason most of us bikers (atleast at my speeds/zigzagging) are alive is that we MUST predict the WORST case scenario. Honestly, if his only survival scenario was everyone *magically* making way for him, that dude's days are numbered. Heck, I'd go further to say that even without the indicators, its a GIVEN that anyone stuck behind a tractor will swerve/reverse/turn around to make way. Was he like born yesterday?

Sorry abd ji, but as a quite rash biker, I fail to see the logic in your statement.

Tomerji, Avoid that route for sometime to come. I empathise with u - a friend's alto was hit by a auto ferrying some ten ppl in gurgaon that then overturned on the spot. We parked his car for 10 days!
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