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Old 4th November 2008, 16:31   #16
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Originally Posted by trrk View Post
What if the ambulance is going to pick up a patient / accident victim? Doesn't that constitute an emergency?
Hello Rajesh...
(long time, been busy)
coming back to topic - I always have 1 rule while driving within India. The second i see a red/blue sirened vehicle, any 2/3/4 star'd vehicle - i just pullover slightly and let them pass. You never know who is inside - going on what job - so just let them thru...
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Old 4th November 2008, 17:13   #17
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The issue of drivers not giving way stems from our callous desi attitude towards things as precious as human lives. Until that changes, so amount of technology or policing is going to improve things.

Contrast this with other countries (eg Japan) where I have seen traffic on both sides stop for letting an ambulance through.

What these guys should realise is that it could be their turn in the ambulance one day.
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Old 4th November 2008, 17:39   #18
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At lunchtime i spoke to an ambulance driver of our hospital about their using the siren unnecessarily and why this causes problems during an actual emergency.
This was his explanation:
He said, they have 24 hrs duty and try to make the best out of every opportunity to get a quick and fast rest. The matador ambulances are in such a sorry state that it is a pain to keep in control and difficult to stop and accelerate again. So they prefer to use siren without patients as well. They also are the whole and soul of the ambulance; meaning that they drive, handle bodies / patients, deal with relatives, cops, etc which really stresses them out and thus they get lax. Their biggest enemy according to them is not cops, but taxi and BEST drivers.

Please note: I'm not justifying their actions of using siren when not needed, I'm just putting forward their view as told to me.
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Old 4th November 2008, 21:02   #19
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in Bangalore Hosur Road these scene is everyday's fact. And I surprise that some Cabbies and Bikers will take this opportunaty to drive fast. Many a time I have seen people driving In front of Ambulance to get a clearence.
Today vehicles will not move their car to left or right they will just stop in front of the Ambulance So that they will also get the clearence.
Thanks to the Modern Peoples Attitude and Driving Sence.
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Old 5th November 2008, 16:13   #20
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Hmm, give way to a car with flashing lights with boards like "Chairperson, Kizhkamthuk Muncipality", or "Judge, High Court of Kerala"? No way. Only Police, Fire and Ambulance get ROW in my book.

And about value of human life, We have 1.3 billions more, so who cares for one (Well, unless that is me or my family) right?
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Old 5th November 2008, 16:46   #21
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I am at a loss as to why they do what they do. Have we city dwellers degraded so much?
Yes we have. The more crowded the road gets, the more degraded we get. In fact, the race to get ahead is in our blood. signals, ambulances, cops, rules, nothing matters. That's coz we have been growing up with a billion other people vying for the same limited resources.

I need to be at the bakery first, else it'll run out of bread before I get to buy one. I need to get to the vegetable market first, coz then i'll just get the leftovers to buy (or perhaps nothing at all!). I need to get to the petrol bunk to get the petrol first before it runs out (or the price gets hiked). I need to book the vehicle first, else i'll end up waiting in a loooooong queue. I need to book the tickets first (train tickets / bus tickets / movie tickets), else it'll all get sold out! I need to get ahead in traffic coz I hate standing in the junctions amid the bus/truck smoke fumes and the noise pollution and avoid any possible chances of getting stuck in a traffic jam. I could write a book on this.....

These are everyday things that is normal here that the population in the West just don't come across. They dont have to jostle with anybody for resources. Being like this is not being degraded. Being like this is being different and still using the same rules that the West use to organize themselves, which often don't work here.

The big wide roads in USA/Europe/Aus dont have a billion people and hundreds of varieties of vehicles to handle. And that's half the problem that's non-existing for them which we have to deal with over here.

Just my 2 cents.

Prajwal
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Old 5th November 2008, 17:27   #22
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So its ok to be selfish when on road. Dont have to care about others because "I" need to get that bread, ticket or car. So "I" have every reason to break all the rules formed for a civil society.

Next time you break a signal try telling the cop that i broke it because i could not take the pollution formed by the traffic jam. Lets see what he has to say.

Somehow i dont get your reasoning.

Population is a issue i agree and a big one and possibly the root of most of our problems these days but civility is a virtue to be imbibed too. What next become carnivores?
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Old 5th November 2008, 21:23   #23
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There is no justification to not letting an ambulance pass!

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Originally Posted by prajwalkashyap View Post

The big wide roads in USA/Europe/Aus dont have a billion people and hundreds of varieties of vehicles to handle. And that's half the problem that's non-existing for them which we have to deal with over here.
There are more cars there than here. Its just that people there use their brains more often and are heavily penalized for not giving right of way!

Quote:
These are everyday things that is normal here that the population in the West just don't come across. They dont have to jostle with anybody for resources. Being like this is not being degraded.

West also has an equal rush for everything... In fact sometimes its worse than here... You have no idea how competitive it is out there!

Do want a refund of your 2 cents?
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Old 6th November 2008, 12:11   #24
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My answers are inline .....

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
So its ok to be selfish when on road. Dont have to care about others because "I" need to get that bread, ticket or car. So "I" have every reason to break all the rules formed for a civil society.

No. Its not ok to be selfish. But it becomes an involuntary reaction due to the acute competition. But pls explain to me the reason for the change of attitude of the same set of people who claim about the glorious history that degraded the vice of "I, Me and Myself".

Next time you break a signal try telling the cop that i broke it because i could not take the pollution formed by the traffic jam. Lets see what he has to say.

Ah! There are cops who follow the rule by the book at their convenience and mood, and there are cops who can understand your situation and let you go coz is totally unhealthy/impossible to be standing next to the exhaust pipe of the truck blowing the smoke right into your nose. Which cop is right and which cop is wrong?

Somehow i dont get your reasoning.

Population is a issue i agree and a big one and possibly the root of most of our problems these days but civility is a virtue to be imbibed too. What next become carnivores?

The line that differentiates between civility and survival can get blurred on the harried streets of India. And civility comes with a concious effort to be imbibed. If I am competing with a million other vehicles for a limited space, I'll end up being late for work everyday. Yes, this civility thing will work for me very well if EVERYBODY on the road is equally civil, else without jostling, I'll never end up anywhere.
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Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
There is no justification to not letting an ambulance pass!

Absolutely! I totally agree that ambulances must be given the right of way. Same for fire engines too. The point in discussion was for the public apathy and not specifically for ambulances.

There are more cars there than here. Its just that people there use their brains more often and are heavily penalized for not giving right of way!

Oh sure there are! Just see the sales figures and its apparent. But do they also have 2-wheelers on the same road? Autorickshaws that move at 15kmph spewing out kerosene fumes? Bullock carts carrying a ton of haystack on main roads? Sand/jelly splling out on the roads due to construction activities? Pedestraians walking on the roads due to hopeless/non-existant footpaths? Cows lounging in the middle of roads? Hawkers pushing their carts in the middle of the road? Bicycles acting like traffic rules dont apply to them? Trucks coming wrong way and then getting stuck in the U-turn? Traffic signals running out of power? U got to be kidding if u choose to ignore these aspects that has resulted in the chaos which has in turn has "degraded" us.

About penalising heavily, cops dont want to increase the penalties, coz they fear that if people correct themselves so much, they'd end up losing their bribes. Public has been crying itself hoarse for increasing penalities for ages now. I wonder why the police can't forget the bribes and think good for the community!


West also has an equal rush for everything... In fact sometimes its worse than here... You have no idea how competitive it is out there!

Having an idea or no idea is an assumption that's uncalled for. The shortage of rice in USA had created so much fear that the stores were shopped empty by the early birds who stacked up rice in their homes enough to last a year! And the rest were shown crying on TV for no access to rice! You perhaps have no idea of how low the "civility" among drives had gone down to during the years of oil-shortage. There were murders on streets for petrol. People were carrying guns to protect their petrol tanks. Just thank god it hasn't come to that here yet.

Do want a refund of your 2 cents?

No thanks. I still have some change left!
While I do not endorse public apathy, I do not agree that we are "degraded" for what we are.

My 2 more cents.

Prajwal
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Old 6th November 2008, 13:29   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prajwalkashyap View Post

They dont have to jostle with anybody for resources.

Quote:
The shortage of rice in USA had created so much fear that the stores were shopped empty by the early birds who stacked up rice in their homes enough to last a year! And the rest were shown crying on TV for no access to rice! You perhaps have no idea of how low the "civility" among drives had gone down to during the years of oil-shortage. There were murders on streets for petrol.


Prajwal you are contradicting yourself!

Quote:
About penalising heavily, cops dont want to increase the penalties, coz they fear that if people correct themselves so much, they'd end up losing their bribes. Public has been crying itself hoarse for increasing penalities for ages now. I wonder why the police can't forget the bribes and think good for the community!
Cops want to increase fines, its the politicians who don't. So the question of bribes being the reason in this case doesn't arise. It's all vote bank politics. And politicians are elected by the public!

Last edited by Tejas@perioimpl : 6th November 2008 at 13:30.
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Old 6th November 2008, 14:30   #26
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Ah!! a spirited reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prajwalkashyap View Post
No. Its not ok to be selfish. But it becomes an involuntary reaction due to the acute competition. But pls explain to me the reason for the change of attitude of the same set of people who claim about the glorious history that degraded the vice of "I, Me and Myself".
Acute competition? You speak as if each one of the drivers there on the road is acting so because his life depends on it. So why do we have signals? one way streets? and for that matter any rules at all. Since there is acute competition lets have a jungle rule - the fittest survives. Right?

I dont get this competition bit in a civilised population. Competition for resources has always been there - now i dont know how you equate individual need for a particular resource as an accepted norm for not obeying rules inherently due to the population.

I see your examples regarding gun totting folks protecting their fuel stocks or the rice crisis. But isnt that because we have developed a thought process like that which invariably makes us competetive even when there is no need for it. We are forgetting we are social animal. I does not count. Its a bigger picture. And we talk about the world being a global village.

Quote:
Ah! There are cops who follow the rule by the book at their convenience and mood, and there are cops who can understand your situation and let you go coz is totally unhealthy/impossible to be standing next to the exhaust pipe of the truck blowing the smoke right into your nose. Which cop is right and which cop is wrong?


You are missing something, the cop needs to deal with the lorry polluting you are the catalyst that should affect it.

So as acitizen knowing the failings of our police force we cant be pushing for yourself. Should we? Instead of getting away from that smoking truck you as a citizen could have reported to that cop standing there of the pollution he is creating instead of breaking norms to just get out of the place. You as a citizen are a cop in yourself.

So the "I" still is stronger for you. "I" get out, "I" am happy. Rest be damned.

But if "we" stop that polluting truck "we" live a better life.

Last edited by Spitfire : 6th November 2008 at 14:33.
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Old 6th November 2008, 15:12   #27
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You are missing something, the cop needs to deal with the lorry polluting you are the catalyst that should affect it.

So as acitizen knowing the failings of our police force we cant be pushing for yourself. Should we? Instead of getting away from that smoking truck you as a citizen could have reported to that cop standing there of the pollution he is creating instead of breaking norms to just get out of the place. You as a citizen are a cop in yourself.

So the "I" still is stronger for you. "I" get out, "I" am happy. Rest be damned.

But if "we" stop that polluting truck "we" live a better life.
Ah! Forum discussions have never been my strength.

The truck may not be polluting at all. Its the usual amount of smoke that a truck emits. But it happens to be too high, and too much into the face. That's the problem. Besides, I cannot afford to keep following up with every violation everytime I see one. I got a job and I am in the middle of a traffic jam/signal, and I am on the road to get to a specific place. I am not on a traffic patrol! I have enough stresses in life to worry about traffic violations and their respective follow-ups.

Its all nice to talk about "seeing the bigger picture" and about "we", etc. But when it boils down to the niceties, its the survival of the fittest. That's where the "I" comes into effect. If I am on a motorcycle and competing for road space with Tata Sumos, Indicas, bicycles, autorickshaws, bullock carts, buses and trucks, then I don't have the time nor the energy to discipline them. I'll try my best to ride/drive with the best road sense I have in my head, but I am not going to goad the cop to book them for violations. I'll report it to the cop alright, and then I am on my way.

All I wanted to point out is that we r not "degraded" in being this way. We are this way due to certain factors/situations which just make us different. Now, every argument can have a counter-argument and both could be correct. I believe in putting forth my views frankly, learn from any incorrections, and move on. I also believe that sufficient words have been flowing from everywhere to prove that both are right, and in doing so, deviated from the OP.

If someone has a different dimension to add, I would welcome it. Else, I think we should end this amicably. At least, this is my last post for this discussion.

Agree to disagree?

I'll keep the 2 cents with me this time.

Prajwal

PS: @Tejas: The contradiction was in reference to the context from an earlier post. It loses its meaning if u look at it individualy as u r doing now.
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Old 6th November 2008, 15:29   #28
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Agree to disagree?
Well not really. Count the number of "I" 's in your post above. You will get the answer.

Hope against hope that we dont see many of you on the road. As long as you are not affected by the apathy everything is right in the world. The day you do pray that people like you are not around you.
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Old 6th November 2008, 16:04   #29
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Hope against hope that we dont see many of you on the road. As long as you are not affected by the apathy everything is right in the world. The day you do pray that people like you are not around you.
Ha ha ha Spitfire... spitting fire again!!!

I'm loving it!

P.S. I know spitfire is a WWII plane. it was called spitfire cause of its rapid action guns!
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Old 6th November 2008, 16:26   #30
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P.S. I know spitfire is a WWII plane. it was called spitfire cause of its rapid action guns!
RJ Mitchell. A life in Aviation - The Supermarine Spitfire - Design

Sometimes the only me attitude of folks gets to me. My work, my problems, my job, my time, my attitude. Its as if its only they that have a job, problems and what not. Others are just there to make thier life miserable. No one wants to make a difference each one is happy in his/her own dark hole that they have dug for themselves.
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