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Old 10th November 2008, 10:59   #16
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Do not think that once the car has been thrown around, any of the passengers would in be any state other than shock to even attempt to get out of the car. There was a suggestion that the auto locking of the doors was the reason for them to be burnt alive. I think if the passengers were in normal state of mind they could have used the manual disable of the lock and come out. So all wrong conclusions. Probably it was fate and nothing could have avoided the mishap.
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Old 10th November 2008, 11:11   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
If any vehicle runs on CNG alone it would be far safer than Petrol.

Damn it, all the DTC buses run on CNG .. if safety were such a big concern then a bus ferrying 50 passengers would never be allowed to be fitted with such a volatile fuel.

Surely this accident has been caused either due to Petrol or a poorly constructed CNG tank purchased on the cheap from the aftermarket.

people who resort to such cheap shortcuts to save a few bucks should think of the consequences their actions can lead to.
I dont have the exact date. But remember that in the last two years one CNG Bus in Delhi got burnt down and the CNG system was blamed for the fire accident.
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Old 10th November 2008, 11:29   #18
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The word CNG in the headlines is so misleading. Petrol or diesel is also an equally combustible fuel. In the event of a collision, petrol lines could also have been ruptured.
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Old 10th November 2008, 12:05   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
If any vehicle runs on CNG alone it would be far safer than Petrol.

Damn it, all the DTC buses run on CNG .. if safety were such a big concern then a bus ferrying 50 passengers would never be allowed to be fitted with such a volatile fuel.

Surely this accident has been caused either due to Petrol or a poorly constructed CNG tank purchased on the cheap from the aftermarket.

people who resort to such cheap shortcuts to save a few bucks should think of the consequences their actions can lead to.
Don't agree with your statement that CNG alone is safer than Petrol. CNG is a pressurized flammable gas vs. petrol, a liquid flammable. Any leaks in a pressurized gas container has a higher chance for a catastrophic event.

As you say, there are poorly constructed CNG tanks and products in the market, along with many incompetent mechanics. Unfortunately, the quality of work is not very good in India, and there is a very high chance of cutting corners to save a few rupees.




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I don't think cng has any role in this accident. i heard the auto expert, tutu dhawan, even he said the fire probably started because of the immense friction generated by impact. With the high use of plastic, a fire is quite easy, plastic would definitely melt with the amount of heat.
Another important point to remember, specially for those who feel cng is unsafe, cng is lighter than air,so in case of a leak it just rises up and disperses into the atmosphere. Besides, a high auto-ignition temperature of 540 degrees centigrade as against petrolís 360 degrees centigrade, makes it a safe fuel. Also, in case of a leak, if CNGís concentration in the air is less than 5% and more than 15%, the gas will not burn even in the presence of a spark.

Dhawan says: "CNG, unlike LPG, does not ignite when it comes into contact with air. Moreover, petrol in almost all modern cars is stored under pressure, making it more inflammable."

so rest assured guys, if it makes you feel better i've had cng for more than 6 years now, in 4 different cars. enjoy your cheap fuel. cheers.

Tutu Dhawan needs to get his facts straight. Neither LPG nor CNG "ingnite" when contacted by air. There has to be an ignition source for either.

What does he mean by Petrol is stored under pressure. This is nonsense. LPG is stored under high pressure. Most of the Petrol is at atmospheric pressure with only a small amount pressurized in the fuel line. The entire LPG system is at high pressure. A flammable gas at high pressure is fundamentally hazardous.



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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Gaurav bhai,

You are unnecessarily worrying. Please realize that CNG cannot catch fire like that - its a lighter than air fuel which has superior dispersal/flammability characteristics than LPG and even to some extent petrol (as per my limited understanding).

Though yes, I will admit, that if due to whichever unfortunate cause (petrol line rupture or short circuit or ...), then ONCE the CNG system catches fire, it could cause quite a bit of damage, though even then, the cylinder almost never disintegrates/explodes. Its basically like a jerry can in the rear catching fire too. Nothing more/less.

Which gets me to fire extinguishers - donno if that small one we all have, could've helped as much!!

I disagree. There have been many CNG related accidents in Delhi. Actually CNG can in fact catch "just like that". Put it this way, would you light a match if you were within, say, 1 meter of a leaking CNG cylinder? I sure would not. Now, would you light a match being 1 meter away from an open container of Petrol? Probably could with no disaster.

That is why I would never put a CNG kit in any one of my cars. My point in all this is there are additional safety risks with CNG, so be aware of these prior to going in for one of these kits due to the low running costs.

So if you absolutely have to get CNG, keep in mind that the quality workmanship, and product quality varies very widely, especially in India where there are always folks trying to offer products for less money and willing to cut corners in the process. So at a minimum, be very, very careful, and willing to spend a bit extra money to get the safest, highest quality CNG kit available, from a very reputable shop.
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Old 10th November 2008, 14:59   #20
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I don’t think so that CNG is so harmful. There must be some fault in the engine or some minor spark in the electrical components.


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Old 10th November 2008, 15:23   #21
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Gaurav,

You completly misunderstand, partly out of lack of experience with CNG.

a. CNG systems are designed to be MUCH more safer than petrol anyday. Or diesel. Honestly, I was SHOCKED to see that my VDi has a fiberglass material tank.
b. Its much safer than an equivalent km ka petrol tank in your car.

PS: That's because you need to compare instances among factory fitted (say santros) CNG versus the aam junta who cut corners every now and then.
PPS: I've worked long enough for an natural gas company, attended enough gyan sessons/informal close chats with CNG engineers, besides three (one sold) cars with CNG in the family.

Last edited by phamilyman : 10th November 2008 at 15:24.
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Old 10th November 2008, 18:11   #22
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Reason for fire in the vehicle involved could be many. CNG is co-incidental. The impact of crash with truck, could have generated sparks and damaged the Fuel line -petrol and CNG in the boot. Might have caught fire instantaneously.

When you are using duel fuel and currently using CNG , the petrol keeps pumping from tank till carburator and returns to tank as the solonoid switch blocks supply to carburator. Means to say constant flow of petrol will be there in boot. If that fuel pipe is damaged , chances of catching fire on friction.

Also, the dynamo, which generates power to recouperate battery, would have caused fire, when raptured fuel line sprays petrol into dynamo.

Remote chance of fire could be smoking inside car. during impact, cigarette butt still burning would have caused fire by igniting raptured fuel line be it petrol or CNG.

I have one experience in my Gypsy. When the mechanic was setting up carburator, he pulled the fuel pipe from carburator, the still continueing petrol was accidentally fell on dynamo. Instantaneously huge fire in my boot. Fortunately, fire extinguisher was near by and got fire put off. Else, would have lost my gypsy for ever and some lives lost.

Punch Line is : Since the CNG / LPG tanks are fitted inside the cabin, notice for leaks and avoid smoking. Keep the windows open when you notice a leak.

Dwarak
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