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Old 26th November 2008, 10:27   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrag View Post
On a straight, you can brake as hard as you want. But never, ever turn the steering wheel in a Safari when braking hard.
Unless you have ABS in which case its fine....
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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
Ummm... Hrag, this does not hold good for ABS, doesn't it?
Correct. Just went through an experience a couple of weeks ago on the Expressway at a fair lick in an emergency - extreme braking & hard heave of the wheel to the left, simultaneously. Amazing composure shown by the Beast.

Last edited by suman : 26th November 2008 at 10:30.
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Old 26th November 2008, 11:31   #107
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Tejas@perioimpl : ... i can explain to you in detail the fluid dynamic movement of fluids in a person's brain which may cause blackouts in increased g-forces!
@Tejas, it is not about getting personal. I will say it again - the effect of fluid movement on the vehicle is not felt as much as you think. Will take your word reg the effect of fluid movements on a person. But we are not talking of g-force situations here. And unlike the human body, the water/fluid content of a vehicle is not 70%
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Old 26th November 2008, 11:38   #108
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If we consider all the SUVs and MUVs, Bolero seems to be most stable. Considering the number sold, I think, they have the least number being rolled over.

In terms of percent.
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Old 26th November 2008, 11:40   #109
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I doubt any car in India can generate so much G-force that you get a blackout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jat View Post
If we consider all the SUVs and MUVs, Bolero seems to be most stable. Considering the number sold, I think, they have the least number being rolled over.

In terms of percent.
I think its more to do with the lack of power as compared to scorpio. Its very easy to get the Safari and scorpio to 120-130 quickly, not the same with bolero.
Moreover most bolero's I have seen on roads are doing mostly 80-90, unlike safari/scorpio which are often at 120+ on the highways

Last edited by tsk1979 : 26th November 2008 at 11:45.
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Old 26th November 2008, 11:47   #110
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Means, reducing power increases the safety. Especially on Indian roads.

Also it means that before the manufacterers increases power, they should start adding the other safety features first - ABS, ESP etc.

Last edited by jat : 26th November 2008 at 11:51. Reason: Addition:
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Old 26th November 2008, 11:47   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I think its more to do with the lack of power as compared to scorpio. Its very easy to get the Safari and scorpio to 120-130 quickly, not the same with bolero.
Moreover most bolero's I have seen on roads are doing mostly 80-90, unlike safari/scorpio which are often at 120+ on the highways
Yeah and unknowingly safer when it comes to toppling over. They do sometimes topple over though. Lets see whether we see toppled over Bolero's with the new CRDe engine.

But then i guess you dont need to reach 120-130 speeds to topple a Safari/Scorpio. Even at 70-80 i have managed to give myself a scare when taking a corner in these. The Bolero has behaved better.
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Old 26th November 2008, 11:56   #112
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I saw around 3 toppled bolero's also at the Mahindra "graveyard" however, the funny thing was, there were around 5-6 bolero's out of which 3 were roll overs, and there were same number of scorpios and all of them were rollovers.
It has more to do with mindset of drivers too. The potential bolero customer is not likely to take high speed turns.
The potential Safari/Scorpio driver comes from sedan land, and is more prone to take high speed turns.
Bolero sales are quite a bit in rural areas, and I have never seen villagers try to do drifts etc.,
They may drive on the wrong side at night without lights, but no high speed histronics. For example I hardly see jeeps in villages(except those 30 people in one jeep taxis) weaving in and out of traffic.
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Old 26th November 2008, 11:56   #113
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Here we go 'round the ..., hmm, corner?
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Old 26th November 2008, 12:18   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I doubt any car in India can generate so much G-force that you get a blackout.
I know that. I just mentioned the g force because i was questioned about my knowledge of physics and fluid dynamics. It was OT and not related.
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Old 26th November 2008, 15:18   #115
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@ Holyghost: you & your friends were fortunate to come out of this without any hazels. Guess sturdy safari had helped a lot.

How would situation be if the same thing would have happened with any sedan having ABS or EPS or what ever other than SUV/MUV?
And also think if the car had toppled in the same way….
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Old 26th November 2008, 16:08   #116
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Originally Posted by onesomeone View Post
Guys,

How about a Scorp? In similar condition would a Scorp also topple? If I am not wrong the Center of gravity in Scorp is lower than that of Safari..
Was just thinking why someone has not asked this so far

Having driven the scorp for 30K+ kms in 16 months, my answer to your question is, yes,

The scorp, thevara, Safari, Qualis etc., in terms of their SUV like feature and higher GC, are not built for sharp turns, you need to be very careful while taking turns and have your 6th sense open.

Case in point: We were 6 cars on the GQ, A'bad to Udaipur twisties after Shamalaji for about 75 kms and one of the best 4 tracks in the country, 3 years back. We had a swift, my fusion, santro, Wagon R, a safari and a scorpio, we alternated driving the cars to check out, 2 of us were upgrading cars, I was actually testing out the scorp and the Safari, so can authentically say yes to your quesiton. Both Scorp and Safari has evolved in the last 3 years into much better "Avatars".

While the samller cars could take turns without fish-tailing on the turns at speed, the bigger ones were scary on the turns; their USP's are different. Of the lot, the Fusion was a fantastic road hugger, followed closely by the Swift.

--Ramky
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Last edited by ramkya1 : 26th November 2008 at 16:11.
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Old 26th November 2008, 17:06   #117
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I wouldn't be surprised if a Santro or Wagon R topples under these conditions (100+ speed at night, wet roads, steep curve and braking)
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Old 26th November 2008, 17:22   #118
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Quote:
Spitfire : .. you dont need to reach 120-130 speeds to topple a Safari/Scorpio. Even at 70-80 i have managed to give myself a scare when taking a corner in these.
Before you guys start saying about turns & speeds, do check out recommended turning speeds for your UV's. The Sumo's recommended speed for turns is about 50-60kmph. Anything more than that is risky. It is not going to be too different for the Scorp / Safari / Bolero. If you do want to take the turns at higher speeds .. it naturally will increase the quantum of risk.


Quote:
Spitfire : The Bolero has behaved better.
Bolero vs Safari :
WheelBase : 30 mm longer
Height : 45mm shorter

Length : 60cm shorter (something amiss here ? may be the spare wheel of the Bolero was not included)
Width : narrower
Weight apprx the same.

(all figures above based on what's given in Carwale).

So what do you expect ? The Bolero is going to have a lower CG, and has a longer WB, and cannot be driven as fast as the Safari / Scorp.

Inherently less risks possible when driving the Bolero. Lesser mis-haps.

Quote:
dadu : I wouldn't be surprised if a Santro or Wagon R topples under these conditions (100+ speed at night, wet roads, steep curve and braking)
Check this discussion :
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...dth-issue.html (Stability: A height to width issue)

Last edited by condor : 26th November 2008 at 17:32.
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Old 26th November 2008, 17:43   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Before you guys start saying about turns & speeds, do check out recommended turning speeds for your UV's. The Sumo's recommended speed for turns is about 50-60kmph.
Those speeds are recommended for mostly all cars, while taking turns.

Quote:
So what do you expect ? The Bolero is going to have a lower CG, and has a longer WB, and cannot be driven as fast as the Safari / Scorp.

Less risky driving. Lesser mis-haps.
That's a good thing no?

Expecting something by looking at numbers alone dosent make sense to me. Considering road conditions and driver abilities(some folks do think it is only the turn though) is a whole lot different then just numbers.

2 different drivers driving the same vehicle in exact the same condition can react and control a vehicle very differently. For the better or the worse.

Last edited by Spitfire : 26th November 2008 at 17:45.
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Old 26th November 2008, 17:54   #120
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Quote:
Spitfire : Expecting something by looking at numbers alone dosent make sense to me. Considering road conditions and driver abilities(some folks do think it is only the turn though) is a whole lot different then just numbers.

2 different drivers driving the same vehicle in exact the same condition can react and control a vehicle very differently. For the better or the worse.
Responses to the points you have raised have already been provided by TSK :
Quote:
tsk1979 : It has more to do with mindset of drivers too. The potential bolero customer is not likely to take high speed turns.
* The potential Safari/Scorpio driver comes from sedan land, and is more prone to take high speed turns.
* Bolero sales are quite a bit in rural areas, and I have never seen villagers try to do drifts etc.,
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