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Old 30th December 2008, 16:47   #136
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Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
if you arent against action taken by Army men, then we all have been talking about this only.

How police works & how they should work is a different topic altogether for a different discussion.

Thats all I had to say on this thread.
but what you said was to the effect that it wasnt the duty of the cops to inform the military men.

so if the cops had informed the army men , the life of mukkarram would not have been lost.

Last edited by siddartha : 30th December 2008 at 16:57.
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Old 30th December 2008, 16:56   #137
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Look guys, What happened in Bangalore is a very unfortunate accident. In better times, an intruder into an army facility would probably not have raised such a reaction from the soldier. All this in the background of credible information that the city is a declared target among insurgent groups.

The boy was having fun, he was immature but not he not the soldier or the cops who chased him, his cousin or his mom could have ever imagined this.

Another example of "probability" interacting with human lives. What was the probability he would pick to1. drag race 2. the particular day 3. the particular time 4. the particular cops turning up so on and so forth.

A tragic culmination of almost impossible (mathematically at least) probabilities. A very tragic accident, let us leave it at that.
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Old 30th December 2008, 17:10   #138
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Quote:
but what you said was to the effect that it wasnt the duty of the cops to inform the military men.
All I am saying is that Police doesnt necessarily do their Duty by the book all the time.
Quote:
so if the cops had informed the army men , the life of mukkarram would not have been lost.
Probably.

You seem hell bent to prove Police or Army guilty. Since nobody saw it we will have to rely on what media report. Anyways thats all I have to say.

Last edited by Technocrat : 30th December 2008 at 17:33.
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Old 30th December 2008, 17:16   #139
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Very unfortunate event, but i really cant blame Cops or Army men for this, the kid should have just listened to the guards and just put his hands up.

We are too much influenced by the happening around us and try to get carried away into doing absurd things. Hopefully others would learn a lesson, its better to face and pay that fine at a nakabandi or a court, than to run and land up in a bigger mess.
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Old 30th December 2008, 17:23   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
All I am saying is that Police doesnt necessarily do their Duty by the book all the time.

so if the cops had informed the army men , the life of mukkarram would not have been lost.



mukkaram is a victim of "between the devil and the deep blue sea", he went from the frying pan to the fire because of his mistakes , but even if one of the two ( either the cops or army ) were careful he wouldn be dead . but as i say this i am not "hell bent" on holding anyone guilty , it is just my point of view

Last edited by siddartha : 30th December 2008 at 17:26.
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Old 30th December 2008, 18:03   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siddartha View Post
mukkaram is a victim of "between the devil and the deep blue sea", he went from the frying pan to the fire because of his mistakes , but even if one of the two ( either the cops or army ) were careful he wouldn be dead . but as i say this i am not "hell bent" on holding anyone guilty , it is just my point of view
Please define careful. What would you do differently if you were in the place of the COPS or the Army soldier?

Only if he had heeded to the army personnels request to surrender, he would be alive today. He died because of his stupidity.

This is nothing but a shining example of the arrogance of youth. They think they can get away with anything. I only hope other people take a very valuable lesson from this incident.
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Old 30th December 2008, 18:03   #142
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Haven't gone through the whole thread but wouldn't it have been better for him to give himself up and get arrested for drag racing then being dead?

The guy runs all over the neighbourhood, goes on top of a army officer's building, makes and is seen making a cell phone call and again made a last ditch effort to get away from the cops and army officers. Who knew who he was calling? What I am saying is that it's not as if he was fired on and shot as soon as he tried to get away. He was given ample chances to give himself up and still fancied his chances at getting away. Can't blame the authorities for thinking that he could be a well trained militant.
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Old 30th December 2008, 21:05   #143
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Please note that the driving licence is issued for disciplined driving on roads. On track events, you can get licence at the age of 10 years.

So, first the guy starts doing wheelies risking his own life or others (Please note you are not allowed suicide also or risk your own life)

Then he tries to escape from police (What will you do if police wants to stop you for some break in rules)

How long was chase and for how many hours?

He enters a prohibited and highly sensitive area at a wrong time and in wrong way(Will you people like do to, not in army area but say your own house or neighbours house)

Then he refuses to surrender and his own people did not advise him to surrender. Do you think they would have just walked into the defence area to pick him like a casual walk in park (What will you people advise, if somebody calls you, tells you that he has broken a rule and is trapped in highly sensitive area)

He manages to escape even after being shot at.

So, you see that right from the beginning his life was doomed. Everywhere things were going wrong for him. If you look the entire sequence of events, you can see till the end, he was hell bent on avoiding law even while knowing that he was trapped. Also, I don't think, army guard would have killed him, if he had surrendered. They would have just handed over to police after initial questioning.
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Old 30th December 2008, 23:03   #144
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What if he was a terrorist ? At present scenario we cant blame for firing at him. Military can't wait for a unknown person in the dark. What if he start firing at military and turns out to be a criminal. This street racer makes other life also in danger not only his.
I think this boys got a correct lesson for his own KARMA. He sets an example to the All Street Racer. This word may be harsh but this is the fact.
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Old 30th December 2008, 23:15   #145
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with all the latest terrorist attacks taking place in mumbai and various places in india i dont blame the army personal for what they did.. they were just doing their duty..
although they could have given warning shots in the air or at least shot the guy below the hip which wouldnt kill him.
secondly why was the guy running from the cops on TOI i read that he did a wheelie on his bike etc and was being chased maybe he was guilty of doing something else also we cannot be sure.
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Old 30th December 2008, 23:16   #146
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Lets not forget that a life was lost due to foolishness or stupidity.

In hindsight, since we know that he was not a bad guy, we are trying to see if he could have been alive and are trying to blame police and army. There is nothing wrong in that.

But, how do you know what kind a person he was in the middle of night without this hindsight ? What could possibly have gone wrong if it was someone else ?

We can keep arguing since we are all sad that it was an unfortunate incident.

Last edited by srishiva : 30th December 2008 at 23:18.
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Old 30th December 2008, 23:25   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
But even if you have to shoot a person without the intention of killing him, you always aim at areas that will slow him down but not kill him. This is where they made a mistake.
Shan2nu
. Recently there have been such "avoidable" killings by police too, including that of Rahul Raj, the crazed gunman on a BEST bus, i'm not very clear on the details but he was shot dead by police from close range from what I can remember.

In such incidents, the army and police should be trained to not shoot to kill at the first instance.
Then they should also be given training and regular refresher courses on shooting to kill in unavoidable situations.
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Old 31st December 2008, 10:29   #148
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Originally Posted by elfhelm View Post
In such incidents, the army and police should be trained to not shoot to kill at the first instance.
Then they should also be given training and regular refresher courses on shooting to kill in unavoidable situations.
Dude, they are trained to shoot accurately. But nowadays since suicide bomber threat is very much real, they have orders to shoot to kill. And no one will take chances when the suspect is near the house of a brigadier!

And let's not get the BEST bus incident into this discussion here please. That was a different story under different circumstances and he had a gun and had shot and wounded people.
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Old 31st December 2008, 10:47   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
In hindsight, since we know that he was not a bad guy, we are trying to see if he could have been alive and are trying to blame police and army. There is nothing wrong in that.
But how can you blame police and army and say nothing wrong in that?
You know that he was not a bad guy only now. At that hour, at that minute how can a army guard know that he was not a bad guy? What work does a good guy have in a restricted area and not heeding to the warning?
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Old 31st December 2008, 10:48   #150
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I completely support the action taken by both the police and Army in this matter , that being said and the life being lost the guy should have given up and surrendered .

Offenders to the law have to be chased and brought to book, and decisive action as to be taken to an intruder who is not responding to clear aggressive warning signals.These are protocols followed all over the world then why not here ? are we any different ?

As someone already pointed out had it been in the US the guy would already have been shot/captured by the police.

Anyways may the soul of the departed person rest in peace!
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