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Old 30th December 2008, 15:18   #121
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Originally Posted by siddartha View Post
why didnt the cops who were chasing him on the roads not inform the military guards that he wasnt a terrorist ?
There are many unanswered questions. And any logical question will have answer, " its army ".
No point in arguing.
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Old 30th December 2008, 15:30   #122
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Originally Posted by siddartha View Post
why didnt the cops who were chasing him on the roads not inform the military guards that he wasnt a terrorist ?
Because they were not aware of where he went

Read this

Quote:
Bangalore Police Commissioner Shankar Bidari said, “Finding no way out, Mukkaram and his friend left the bike and ran in different directions.

As his friend escaped, Mukarram jumped inside the military campus and landed in the Flag Staff House on HAL Airport Road where Brigadier PS Ravindranath, commander Karnataka and Kerala Sub Area, resides.” A statement later issued by Army authorities said that around 1.30 am, a man managed to enter the Flag Staff House. “After a thorough search, the sentries on guard sensed the presence of somebody on the top of the house.
Source
From the same site
Quote:
One of Mukarram’s cousins said, “He called me up around 1.30 am and told me that police were after him, and he was stuck in the military campus. We rushed there in our car, but by then the military men had fired at him.”
I am surprised why did none of the people whom he talked to suggested him to surrender?

Still have doubts? read this

Quote:
The police commissioner said that the sentries’ suspicion was raised since Mukarram was speaking in Urdu and also did not pay heed to their warning.

DCP East BK Singh said that the sentries opened six rounds of fire from an INSAS 56 Rifle. Of the six, three are said to have pierced Mukarram’s stomach.

Mukarram did not surrender even after being fired upon. Instead he jumped off the compound wall where his cousin’s car was waiting for him.
Why the hell was he still running away?

Last edited by Technocrat : 30th December 2008 at 15:32.
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Old 30th December 2008, 15:37   #123
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Technocrat that is one of the best explanation of the entire situation.
Looks like my opinion will change upto some extent.
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Old 30th December 2008, 15:51   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
Because they were not aware of where he went

Read this


From the same site

I am surprised why did none of the people whom he talked to suggested him to surrender?

Still have doubts? read this



Why the hell was he still running away?
may be the cops did not know the exact location of mukkarram , but since the incident happend near/in the vicinity of the restricted area, the cops should not have ruled out the possibility of mukkaram scaling the walls of the military area.
is it not the duty of the cops to alert the military guards , that there might have been a possible/probable intrusion .
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Old 30th December 2008, 15:58   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siddartha View Post
is it not the duty of the cops to alert the military guards , that there might have been a possible/probable intrusion .
so the cops didnt inform the army...how do you know there was time to inform? they must have been wondering where he disappeared when it was all over.
in this regard, is it wrong for the army to have shot the guy? they did the right thing, though in hindsight it appears to be a mistake.
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Old 30th December 2008, 15:59   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Technocrat that is one of the best explanation of the entire situation.
Looks like my opinion will change upto some extent.
You were arguing so much even without reading the news first?

What Technocrat posted is what was in the news since the incident happened.
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Old 30th December 2008, 16:01   #127
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Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel View Post
so the cops didnt inform the army...how do you know there was time to inform? they must have been wondering where he disappeared when it was all over.
in this regard, is it wrong for the army to have shot the guy? they did the right thing, though in hindsight it appears to be a mistake.
as per the newspapers and news mukkaram was atop the bulding for almost an hour .
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Old 30th December 2008, 16:09   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
For the cops they got the bike, they could have found him and arrested/penalised him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by siddartha View Post
may be the cops did not know the exact location of mukkarram , but since the incident happend near/in the vicinity of the restricted area, the cops should not have ruled out the possibility of mukkaram scaling the walls of the military area.
is it not the duty of the cops to alert the military guards , that there might have been a possible/probable intrusion .
Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel View Post
so the cops didnt inform the army...how do you know there was time to inform? they must have been wondering where he disappeared when it was all over.
in this regard, is it wrong for the army to have shot the guy? they did the right thing, though in hindsight it appears to be a mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by siddartha View Post
as per the newspapers and news mukkaram was atop the bulding for almost an hour .
Check the first higlighted quote. They left the bike and ran. The cops found the bike and could have used to trace it the culprits so they didnt bother chasing him or finding out that he scaled a military establishment's wall.

Right thing to do? i dont know. But knowing the way police works they had proof and had to continue with their job for the night/day too. So walked off without bothering to find out what happened to the riders.

Surprising thing is in all this the guy riding with the victim has managed to go scot free.

Guys end this not worth it.
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Old 30th December 2008, 16:11   #129
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Quote:
is it not the duty of the cops to alert the military guards , that there might have been a possible/probable intrusion .
Yes certainly, every time some one breaks rule on road & a cop looses sight they should alert everyone in that area (that too at mid night) telling how a young boy slipped through their hand & that they should keep an eye.

How were they expected to know that a boy could actually jump inside an Army area & keep jumping of roofs & not be caught by the armed guards?

Ok now lets talk about Army men who shot the boy.
- Is a school\college going boy expected to be jumping & running across roof tops in an Army Area?

Q What would they do if they spot someone running in an Army campus not heeding to warning & making frantic calls in Urdu & even on being Fired on keeps running towards boudary wall?

Ans:
a) Assume its a college kid doing Athletic practice

b) Contact local police & ask if they had seen some one coming there way & get all the details allowing enough time for this guy to escape

c) Shoot him so that a potential Spy\Terrorist|miscreant doesnt escape

I think I know your answer.

Last edited by Technocrat : 30th December 2008 at 16:12.
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Old 30th December 2008, 16:13   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
You were arguing so much even without reading the news first?

What Technocrat posted is what was in the news since the incident happened.
I said upto some extent.
And I read what was available in news paper initially. That copy is still on my computer table. But again the controversy is not ending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by siddartha View Post
as per the newspapers and news mukkaram was atop the bulding for almost an hour .
And in the Vadodara copy of TOI, it was not mentioned that the person was atop building for one hour.
If this is true, then its even more complex. At 1am, their relatives could have reached the spot, but they say by the time they reached, Mukarram was fired upon.
Also police should have informed army.

More and more complexity is getting around this case.


No body managed to reach the spot, the gaurds come to know about his presence after an hour/find him after an hour, etc.
Also is it not possible that Mukarram understood Urdu and the warnings from others might be in other lanugage, so he could not have understood ? Just a thought.


EDIT : @technocrat:
If the guards spot him running towards the boundry wall, then I suppose they could see him and could have fired at legs rather than gunning him down.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 30th December 2008 at 16:16.
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Old 30th December 2008, 16:21   #131
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I feel sad that the guy died, but tell me if someone scales the wall of your house and climbs the roof at 1 am and starts running away when asked to stop what would you do? Invite him for a coffee to discuss ? And this was a high security zone for gods sake. The kid got nervous/scared and didnt know what to do so he ran, the guards are there to prevent intruders they have no clue if the guy is armed and dangerous, has a bomb strapped to him or anything.
Its just unfortunate but it was a risk the kid took and it didnt work out.
I think its time for the mods to lock this thread. Its not going anywhere and will not go anywhere.
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Old 30th December 2008, 16:23   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
Yes certainly, every time some one breaks rule on road & a cop looses sight they should alert everyone in that area (that too at mid night) telling how a young boy slipped through their hand & that they should keep an eye.

How were they expected to know that a boy could actually jump inside an Army area & keep jumping of roofs & not be caught by the armed guards?

Ok now lets talk about Army men who shot the boy.
- Is a school\college going boy expected to be jumping & running across roof tops in an Army Area?

Q What would they do if they spot someone running in an Army campus not heeding to warning & making frantic calls in Urdu & even on being Fired on keeps running towards boudary wall?

Ans:
a) Assume its a college kid doing Athletic practice

b) Contact local police & ask if they had seen some one coming there way & get all the details allowing enough time for this guy to escape

c) Shoot him so that a potential Spy\Terrorist|miscreant doesnt escape

I think I know your answer.
i am not against the action taken by the army men , if they have followed their protocol , then they are right , but it is the slackness on the part of the cops , so since the cops found the bike thier job is over?

so if the cops can take the effort to chase them , can they not put in half as much effort to inform the military guards when there is a "possible/probable "intrusion into the restricted area.


also , if he wasnt speaking urdu , he had a better chance of not being shot?

also speaking of army men , atleast this time no passerby got shot like how it happens when they are practising.

Last edited by siddartha : 30th December 2008 at 16:35.
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Old 30th December 2008, 16:31   #133
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If indeed he was a terrorist we would have lost the chance to catch him live and interrogate. It looks like the security guys shot him with the intention to kill, which is tactically and ethically wrong when he had not shown any sign of using any weapon. But it looks like our army is now on a "kill first, find out later" mode. They can't injure a fugitive. They have to kill.
Of course the guy was plain stupid to do what he did.
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Old 30th December 2008, 16:40   #134
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if you arent against action taken by Army men, then we all have been talking about this only.

How police works & how they should work is a different topic altogether for a different discussion.

Thats all I had to say on this thread.
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Old 30th December 2008, 16:43   #135
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Look guys, What happened in Bangalore is a very unfortunate accident. In better times, an intruder into an army facility would probably not have raised such a reaction from the soldier. All this in the background of credible information that the city is a declared target among insurgent groups.

The boy was having fun, he was immature but not he not the soldier or the cops who chased him, his cousin or his mom could have ever imagined this.

Another example of "probability" interacting with human lives. What was the probability he would pick to1. drag race 2. the particular day 3. the particular time 4. the particular cops turning up so on and so forth.

A tragic culmination of almost impossible (mathematically at least) probabilities. A very tragic accident, let us leave it at that.
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