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Old 28th October 2009, 12:58   #76
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The human race is the intruder. We destroy everything which stands in our way for our greater well being. We are all poachers.

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Old 28th October 2009, 13:03   #77
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Today's Bangalore edition of The Times of India has printed a photo of a tiger running across the road captured from a mobile phone camera by a reader.

This Tiger was lucky in the sense, that it was not hit by the cars at that time. What if there was a speeding truck or bus, they would not be able to stop in time.

Animals in the forest are not like street animals we find in the city. The street animals (dogs, cats, cows, even humans) in our cities have accustomed to vehicles and traffic and know when to cross & when not to cross. Even then, there are casualities.

But how can you expect any wild animal to get out of the way when a vehicle comes speeding on the highway??

Edit: This news also appeared in the Hindu

Last edited by addyhemmige : 28th October 2009 at 13:08.
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Old 28th October 2009, 13:08   #78
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This is not the first time its happening. I dread the day when we read about a tiger being run over by a speeding vehicle in these forests. I was happy earlier when the road in Nagarhole and Bandipur forests were not so great because it prevented over speeding. Now the roads have been done so well that its become a risk for the animals. If we cannot stop traffic on these roads lets put a speed breaker every couple of hundred metres this is the only way to prevent the possible nightmare.
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Old 28th October 2009, 13:12   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pypkmsrikanth View Post
This is not the first time its happening. I dread the day when we read about a tiger being run over by a speeding vehicle in these forests. I was happy earlier when the road in Nagarhole and Bandipur forests were not so great because it prevented over speeding. Now the roads have been done so well that its become a risk for the animals. If we cannot stop traffic on these roads lets put a speed breaker every couple of hundred metres this is the only way to prevent the possible nightmare.
It has already happened. Tigers have been run over by speeding vehicles in the past. I have seen pictures of those in Sanctuary magazine and on the net don't remember the link). I think it was on the Bawali road passing through Nagarhole.

Regarding the newspaper aticle, the tiger was very lucky that it was not hit by the cars at that time. What if there was a speeding truck or bus, they would not be able to stop in time.

Animals in the forest are not like street animals we find in the city. The street animals (dogs, cats, cows, even humans) in our cities have accustomed to vehicles and traffic and know when to cross & when not to cross. Even then, there are casualities.

But how can you expect any wild animal to get out of the way when a vehicle comes speeding on the highway??
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Old 28th October 2009, 13:18   #80
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It has even happened in Amchi Mumbai - on the Godbundhar Road, Thane.
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Old 28th October 2009, 13:25   #81
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@raju-I think the driver of the vehicle should be shot.
@thalavoy & issigonis&srikanth- humans are the biggest intrusive viruses the world has ever known - the poor tiger is already in danger of extinction as are many other animals.

I support erection of check posts / speed breakers throughout the Bandipur/ Mudumalai stretch - so that over-speeding can be STOPPED!
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Old 28th October 2009, 13:54   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addyhemmige View Post
It has already happened. Tigers have been run over by speeding vehicles in the past. I have seen pictures of those in Sanctuary magazine and on the net don't remember the link). I think it was on the Bawali road passing through Nagarhole.
I actually meant this stretch of Bandipur. You are right about the Bavali road tiger hit.

I have always made it a point to slow down the moment I reach the forest limits. Even in this forum am sure there are enough who do not slow down while traversing through Nilgiri Biosphere region. Unfortunately the intruder is the winner in all cases of conflict. Sad state of affairs
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Old 28th October 2009, 14:02   #83
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i agree with this.
Drive slowly and steadily as per speed limit prescribed
Dont use the horn
Dont smoke, drink or eat or litter
Dont stop and take snaps however tempting it may be

all this is fine - i am extremely particular about following it but almost everyone else on the road is not - they get irritated, blow the horn and generally make a nuisance of themselves.

I have taken issue with such people many a time while on the Bandipur/ Mudumalai stretch, but frankly am not interested in fighting with a bunch of uneducated drunks in a minibus/ taxi or other uneducated yet economically advantaged and thus, belligerent private vehicle owners/passengers. People who are chastised thus, invariably have an ego problem about admitting their mistakes.

This is true even in our cities nowadays because he who shouts loudest gets heard the most - it is of no consequence who is right and who is wrong.

Most of us Indians are simply incapable of following rules and respecting public spaces and/or designated areas. It is a lack of education in the true sense of the word and the "laissez fare" attitude that we seem to have in our psyche. The days of good manners, decent behaviour and gentlemanliness etc are long gone - now it is only goonda raj.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pypkmsrikanth View Post
I have always made it a point to slow down the moment I reach the forest limits. Even in this forum am sure there are enough who do not slow down while traversing through Nilgiri Biosphere region. Unfortunately the intruder is the winner in all cases of conflict. Sad state of affairs
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Old 28th October 2009, 14:25   #84
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yes my friend - this is so true

it makes one feel deeply what the point really is of all these laws. anyone who is anyone - i.e. someone high up's nephew, son, brother relative can get away by name dropping and bribing. the poor animals have no choice.

as long as we are a poor country with poorly paid law enforcement officers, we really cant stop corruption and so on.

ultimately with the loss/ gradual extinction of nature reserves and our glorious wildlife the generations yet to come are the losers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by balan View Post
unless we have a strong enforcement system, there wont be any correction of attitude. We already have enough laws but no proper enforcement.
Once when I was a volunteer in a elephant census, the forest people caught a sonata with ample proof as he had hit a deer on high speed on highway and the deer was injured badly, and locals had seen it and reported at the checkpost by phone which resulted in the forest guards stopping the vehicle. He was left after a fine of 25000 after lot of strings were pulled. The low amount of fine was since the deer was "just injured and not yet dead" all this within 2 hours. After he was left off, the deer died as it didnt have much chance.

Best regards
Bala
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Old 28th October 2009, 14:44   #85
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@talavoy:
I completely agree. Its been very difficult to these animals to be peaceful in their own area. The so called forest officials are not doing their duty to protect the animal (habitation) flora and fauna. There was an elephant electrocuted near Gudalur or near by place last week.

Where will these animals go when their own area is encroached by we humans?
Obviously, they will attack near by villages.

When I happened to cross numerous times on bandipur stretch, people just honk like crazy. As if there is a huge traffic. None are emphatic towards animals around.
In one instance, the forest guard itself was suggesting people to stop cars and take snaps. Ridiculous!!
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Old 28th October 2009, 14:46   #86
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@Shankar. I disagree in couple of things.
Education (as in our school/college syllabus) has nothing to do with what we see. The people who drive fast inside these forests are most likely well 'educated' people. What is lacking is an awareness to the surroundings. Here the syllabus talks about polar bears and what not. How many of us know the names of the birds/animals that we see daily? I will not even go near the plants/trees area
Then the statement that Indians are incapable of following rules. I find the same indians a model citizen in countries like USA or mid-east where you know you can't escape punishment. So, the buck is back to enforcement and the law makers.
When you get honked at if you stop exactly at Red light (not even Yellow) in a signal, what else to expect from such drivers. The same driver is not going to slow down inside a forest. So no use in us getting frustrated. If some one honks at me inside a forest, I go to the side and let him through (with a curse as he or she is going to disturb some animals ahead and if it is an elephant then I could be in trouble)
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Old 28th October 2009, 14:59   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackstallion76 View Post
@talavoy:
In one instance, the forest guard itself was suggesting people to stop cars and take snaps. Ridiculous!!
There is more to it. Forest department, its functioning has been the same since British Raj. It has not changed, attitude wise, to the modern times.

Previously, the role of forest guard was to be a symbolic authority. He is in charge of a huge area and fines people who cut trees, cattle grazing and other such minor offences. This is fine if the area is not a sanctuary. But in sanctuary, an average forest guard is woefully inadequate in modern times and more likely to give advices like you encountered here.

I have an opinion similar to Valmik Thapar. In his interview in some TV channel he suggested that a separate union minstry for Forests & Wildlife (outside of Environment & Forests) be formed. I also think a separate department (outside of regular Forest department) be formed just for Wildlife. It should have its own cadre who is probably better educated and most likely better armed
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Old 28th October 2009, 15:15   #88
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Today's Hindu paper has a picture of a tiger crossing in front of a car in Mudumalai, shot by a resident of Ooty with his phone cam.
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Old 28th October 2009, 17:09   #89
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I meant "educated" in the true sense of the word - mere book learning and degrees and qualifications etc do not constitute real "education" in my opinion.
I appreciate your use of the word "awareness".
We have the same views essentially - I wish more of us could get together and make a difference. Isolated effort wont help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thalavoy View Post
@Shankar. I disagree in couple of things.
Education (as in our school/college syllabus) has nothing to do with what we see. The people who drive fast inside these forests are most likely well 'educated' people. What is lacking is an awareness to the surroundings. Here the syllabus talks about polar bears and what not. How many of us know the names of the birds/animals that we see daily? I will not even go near the plants/trees area
Then the statement that Indians are incapable of following rules. I find the same indians a model citizen in countries like USA or mid-east where you know you can't escape punishment. So, the buck is back to enforcement and the law makers.
When you get honked at if you stop exactly at Red light (not even Yellow) in a signal, what else to expect from such drivers. The same driver is not going to slow down inside a forest. So no use in us getting frustrated. If some one honks at me inside a forest, I go to the side and let him through (with a curse as he or she is going to disturb some animals ahead and if it is an elephant then I could be in trouble)
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Old 28th October 2009, 17:27   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thalavoy View Post
There is more to it. Forest department, its functioning has been the same since British Raj. It has not changed, attitude wise, to the modern times.

Previously, the role of forest guard was to be a symbolic authority. He is in charge of a huge area and fines people who cut trees, cattle grazing and other such minor offences. This is fine if the area is not a sanctuary. But in sanctuary, an average forest guard is woefully inadequate in modern times and more likely to give advices like you encountered here.

I have an opinion similar to Valmik Thapar. In his interview in some TV channel he suggested that a separate union minstry for Forests & Wildlife (outside of Environment & Forests) be formed. I also think a separate department (outside of regular Forest department) be formed just for Wildlife. It should have its own cadre who is probably better educated and most likely better armed
The attitude of any government towards its forest depts must change considerably. The Forest depts are woefully short of funds & support. They do not have money to pay the rank & file staff, they do not have money to purchase new equipment, they do not have powers to undertake criminal action on poachers and other offenders etc. Even the daily wagers are not paid their wages for months together. When this the case, how can we expect people not to fall prey to easy money by accepting money/bribes from poachers?

My assessment of the situation: Pay the salaries/wages of the forest guards/daily wagers regularly and you will easily find atleast a 10% improvement in the situation.

Well, I agree that there should be a separate ministry for Forests & Wildlife. But, at the department level, I don't think it will be feasible to have separate depts for forests & wildlife. Both the departments will just end up blaming each other for anything & everything.

Note: Mods, There is already a separate thread to discuss wildlife issues in Shifting Gears. I request you to merge this thread with the existing thread. Thanks
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