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Old 28th October 2009, 17:35   #91
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In the UK I think they have the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries and the Environment Ministry both of which work closely with the Forestry Commission to ensure protected spaces remain protected.

Canada, the US, Australia, New Zealand etc all have some excellent laws and enforcement methods for Preservation of the environment.

Atleast they follow the rules there - which we dont. And in our case one of the problems is money - the other is attitude.

And of course - whatever money there is, from the tax payer, the great politicos must take their cut - by the time it reaches the point where it is most needed, there is precious little left, which is not going to be of any use at all!

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Originally Posted by addyhemmige View Post
The attitude of any government towards its forest depts must change considerably. The Forest depts are woefully short of funds & support.
Well, I agree that there should be a separate ministry for Forests & Wildlife. But, at the department level, I don't think it will be feasible to have separate depts for forests & wildlife. Both the departments will just end up blaming each other for anything & everything.

Note: Mods, There is already a separate thread to discuss wildlife issues in Shifting Gears. I request you to merge this thread with the existing thread. Thanks
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Old 28th October 2009, 17:59   #92
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I have seen many SUVs speeding in this stretch.Here road humps are for eye wash and does not serve any purpose for SUVs and heavy vehicles. And I have also seen many people discarding plastics containing food items and, animals always tempted to roam near highways.
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Old 30th October 2009, 19:09   #93
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Default a different thought to the topic.....

I just came across this thread and I definitely agree with the posts here regarding how good this move would be for the wildlife in Bandipur Wild Life sanctuary .

But I would also like to put up a different thought into this .

I am this regular traveller from Blore to Kerala through this Highway and thinking from that perspective , its not so a welcoming rule for people like us .The regular
travelling time of 7 - 8 hours has increased to 13/17 hours and that for just to cover over a distance of 360 Odd kilometers ( from Blore to Calicut ) .

Speeding vehicles and the threat that it causes to the wildlife is definitely something to worry about and that has to be put to an end by the authorities . But the solution to it wont be just stopping the traffic in the night , if that is a solution then the same has to be done in the daylight too .
If the pic that was shown in TOI or Hindu is to be refered , its taken in daylight , which means the threat to wild animals is the same during the daytime .

I have seen people taking pit stops inside this region and having drinks / smoking . During summer nothing more is required for an outbreak of wildfire .
Which again should make the authorities to think on the lines of stopping the traffic in the daylight .

Another thing to be noted here is that , due to this traffic restriction a big queue of vehicles is formed on either sides of this Forest , near Muthanga and Gundalpet and this queue blocks the natural path of elephants .
Incidents of Elephants charging these vehicles which are in these trails are reported regularly .

I would say that the roads should have more of patroling done by forest department and they can even device ' Interceptors' in co-ordination with the Police department so that the speed limit breachers can be charged .
Speed breakers ( not in form of Humps ) can also act as speed limiters to an extent.

I am sure that everyone in this forum would agree that the number of animals killed by these accidents is less than one tenth of the animals killed by the Poachers . Though there hasnt been much of outburst happened against it by the Judiciary / the forest department / by the person who raised this in the court !!! ..

I have heard in the past of a similar rule which was suppressed by the Money Power of the Bus operaters. Probably this time
there wouldnt have been a good negotiation between them and the 'officials' / negotiation would be still on... !!

I definitely feel that there should be a rethinking done on to this rule , If they really care of Wildlife and conservation of forest .
Authorities should search for alternatives . Should take the help of the tribals to identify which are all the places were more number of animals found in a forest / areas on the road usually occupied by the elpehants / deer / tigers so that the regulation become even stricter in these areas !! .

cheeers
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Old 1st November 2009, 06:20   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rejoycjohn View Post
I just came across this thread and I definitely agree with the posts here regarding how good this move would be for the wildlife in Bandipur Wild Life sanctuary .

But I would also like to put up a different thought into this .

I am this regular traveller from Blore to Kerala through this Highway and thinking from that perspective , its not so a welcoming rule for people like us .The regular
travelling time of 7 - 8 hours has increased to 13/17 hours and that for just to cover over a distance of 360 Odd kilometers ( from Blore to Calicut ) .
I'm sure you'll agree that the night traffic on this highway will be as if driving in city traffic. You'll be driving in a convoy of buses or trucks. You can imagine how wild animals move around with such traffic around them.

Quote:
Speeding vehicles and the threat that it causes to the wildlife is definitely something to worry about and that has to be put to an end by the authorities . But the solution to it wont be just stopping the traffic in the night , if that is a solution then the same has to be done in the daylight too .
If the pic that was shown in TOI or Hindu is to be refered , its taken in daylight , which means the threat to wild animals is the same during the daytime .
Speeding vehicles are definitely a threat during anytime of the day, I agree. Most of the wild animals are nocturnal and become active only at night. All wild animals tend to move very little in the heat of the day and prefer to stay in one place. So, the risk is comparitively lower than at night. Hence the decision to close traffic at night.

Btw, I'm all for closing highway traffic in wildlife sanctuaries during all times of the day (but I'm sure that will not happen).

The highway we are talking about here does not pass through the fringes of the National Park. It passes right through the heart. That is why it is important to give animals the breathing space they deserve.
Quote:

I have seen people taking pit stops inside this region and having drinks / smoking . During summer nothing more is required for an outbreak of wildfire .
Which again should make the authorities to think on the lines of stopping the traffic in the daylight .
If you see such activities, try to give them an earful. Also, report them to the authorities. Do your bit.

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Another thing to be noted here is that , due to this traffic restriction a big queue of vehicles is formed on either sides of this Forest , near Muthanga and Gundalpet and this queue blocks the natural path of elephants .
Incidents of Elephants charging these vehicles which are in these trails are reported regularly .
Well, such move cannot be implemented effectively without the co-operation of the other states involved (Tamil Nadu & Kerala). Bandipur National park is part of the larger Nilgiri Biosphere reserve and it is contiguous with Mudumalai & Muthanga wildlife Sanctuaries. It is imperative that all 3 states work together to save this treasure trove.

Quote:
I would say that the roads should have more of patroling done by forest department and they can even device ' Interceptors' in co-ordination with the Police department so that the speed limit breachers can be charged .
Speed breakers ( not in form of Humps ) can also act as speed limiters to an extent.
The forest department does not have enough money to even pay the wages of their staff, how will they get interceptors? It is a good suggestion though.

Speed Breakers (not in the form of humps). Hmmm, how else will people reduce speed?? Barricades?? Do give some suggestions.

Quote:
I am sure that everyone in this forum would agree that the number of animals killed by these accidents is less than one tenth of the animals killed by the Poachers . Though there hasnt been much of outburst happened against it by the Judiciary / the forest department / by the person who raised this in the court !!! ..
Maybe, but just because the rate of animals killed in accidents is less than that of poaching, it does not mean that it should continue. Both are independent of each other. Poaching has to be tackled differently and roadkills should be handled differently.

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I have heard in the past of a similar rule which was suppressed by the Money Power of the Bus operaters. Probably this time
there wouldnt have been a good negotiation between them and the 'officials' / negotiation would be still on... !!
The first time it was the DC of Chamarajanagar district who took the decision. It was later revoked due to the pressure of private bus owners. This time it was the Karnataka High Court who took the decision based on a petition filed against the revoking of the earlier order. I do not think that there would be a negotiation between them and the bus operators.

Quote:
I definitely feel that there should be a rethinking done on to this rule , If they really care of Wildlife and conservation of forest .
Authorities should search for alternatives . Should take the help of the tribals to identify which are all the places were more number of animals found in a forest / areas on the road usually occupied by the elpehants / deer / tigers so that the regulation become even stricter in these areas !! .

cheeers
Alternatives?? Please suggest some. Taking help of tribals to monitor wildlife is welcome, but they should be rewarded for their efforts which the forest department does not do.

Why don't we fence off the area where 'more' number of animals are found and they will stay there itself without moving anywhere and there will be no problems for the traffic. Please understand that animals do not stay in one particular place. They have their territories ranging in kilometers and they will move anywhere within their territories.

As I said earlier, this highway passes through the heart of the National Park where 'more' animals, as you put it, are found.

I'm not saying that the ban on night traffic is 'the' solution, but it is a small step towards that direction.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 09:32   #95
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I'm sure you'll agree that the night traffic on this highway will be as if driving in city traffic...........
Well it wasnt like that before , the traffic used to be like that near the checkposts . Now due to this ban , all the vehicles gets out of the block / ban after 6am from either sides and which allows almost 1000 Odd vehicles from either sides to get through this stretch
The point to be noted here is that , if the traffic was scattered ( avg 5 odd vehicles per minute through this road ) before the ban , now its concentrated after 6 am ..and of course all the truck traffic got shifted betweeen 6 pm and 10 pm so that they can reach the other side before the ban.
If studies or the local information about animals been seen in the road to be taken into belief ( also the experiance from people who travel very regularly - every 2nd day ) , they move around ( especially elephants and spotted deer ) after 7pm till around 10/11pm to the nearest water bodies.
Putting the above two facts together , well its clear that the ban is ineffective.
If the authorities are truly concerned , let them ban the traffic both in day and night. just because some-one feels / rather can make the enviromentalist feel that the wildlife is protected , doesnt make any good for these animals

( The funny thing was earlier the road was blocked only from 2am to 6am!! .. now its from 10 to 6 )

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Well, such move cannot be implemented effectively without the co-operation of the other states involved (Tamil Nadu & Kerala..........
Yes I agree with that , it has to be the states who should co-operate ..
Over here I am not sure if the route to 'Gudallur from gundalpet ' is closed ..?

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The forest department does not have enough funds...
A debatable statement ..
But here the Idea is to have a co-operation with the Police department and use these interceptors. Let these instruments be used for a cause other than just ticketting those emergency travellers to BIAL ( I have seen that they only ticket private vehicles and hardly care of the cabs ) again off topic here ..!

Instead of Bumps - they can have baricades .. they are effective . I wouldnt recommend building more bumps in these stretches which is already filled with bumps .

These are days where the common people are losing their trust on the Judiciary .. Latest reports on the Karnataka Cheif Justice accused on illegal acquisition of land and he being disqualified to getting promoted to the SC to be mentioned here ..

I did search over the internet to get a statistics of the number of animals killed in road accidents and also by the poachers .. I never got one .. If someone can help in this ?
I wont say that the animals has to be killed in road accidents , but the measures are not foolproof ,neither would it do any good for conserving the wildlife . This would be just enough for the goverment to boast that they are doing something .. But the fact is that the measures cant even be considered as name sake!!..
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Old 2nd November 2009, 13:35   #96
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I totally agree with @addyhemmige post. The forest department, as is the case with most government departments, do not have enough funds. You can see the odd (or is almost all) official wealthy but the department itself is poor. Trust me. I am (or at least used to be) an insider there. The watchers (one level lower than Forest Guards) are not permanent (as in payroll) at all. They are all paid from the Ranger/Forester's budget. And when there are other expenses, you see these watchers don't get paid. (Aside: Watchers some times hire the help of others, who, in tamil, were called Keechers. The most famous of the Keechers was Veerappan, the bandit)
All these aside, I do think that the problems travellers are facing are just inconveniences. Over the period of time, the timings of the buses would change so that you can reach your destination on time. Or travel during day time so you don't get stuck at the gates. I am sure this will happen as the bus/lorry operators will get over it.
Some compromises for 'the greater good'. I am sure all who is inconvenienced are mature enough to understand this.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 15:17   #97
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Quote:
I do think that the problems travellers are facing are just inconveniences.....
Well first of all i agree that the government departments ( if we call in a whole ) are poor in our country. And if you confirm the same , well I would say there isnt a second say on that ..
At least I know that the forest department is one of the most lucrative departments for the officials .. ! Right from the smallest post to the most highest , people are getting paid unofficially .. and this speaks for the illegal land acquisitions and poaching in Indian forests .( I am not generalizing )

The primary reason for me to get into this topic would definitely have been the 'inconvenience ' caused to me , and those travellers who travel between Calicut / Wynad and Blore for business reasons ( can be a vegetable merchant who would want to get the stocks from Blore at a lower price than in Wynad )..But going through this and giving some researches into it makes me question the reason for such a step from the government and the effectiveness that it has in achieving their 'Goal ' .

Even now there are million other options to travel from Blore to kerala .. but if we opt them for a good reason then I wouldnt have written so much .

As I have always said , wildlife should be conserved .. !! Is blocking a National Highway a solution for this ?
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Old 2nd November 2009, 17:04   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thalavoy View Post
All these aside, I do think that the problems travellers are facing are just inconveniences. Over the period of time, the timings of the buses would change so that you can reach your destination on time. Or travel during day time so you don't get stuck at the gates. I am sure this will happen as the bus/lorry operators will get over it.
Some compromises for 'the greater good'. I am sure all who is inconvenienced are mature enough to understand this.
+1

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Originally Posted by rejoycjohn View Post
Putting the above two facts together , well its clear that the ban is ineffective.
We cannot say it is ineffective without trying, can we??

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Over here I am not sure if the route to 'Gudallur from gundalpet ' is closed ..?
Even that is closed. So, please be assured that the Wyanad/Calicut travelers are not being discriminated against

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These are days where the common people are losing their trust on the Judiciary .. Latest reports on the Karnataka Cheif Justice accused on illegal acquisition of land and he being disqualified to getting promoted to the SC to be mentioned here ..
Not everybody is a bad sheep. Just because one person was doing it does not mean that everybody is doing it. We've got to have faith in the judiciary, more so in this case since it over ruled the govt's order to revoke the ban.

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I did search over the internet to get a statistics of the number of animals killed in road accidents and also by the poachers .. I never got one .. If someone can help in this ?
Try contacting some NGOs. They will have the data I guess.

Quote:
I wont say that the animals has to be killed in road accidents , but the measures are not foolproof ,neither would it do any good for conserving the wildlife .
Please let us know some foolproof measures. Nothing in the world is 'foolproof'

Quote:
Originally Posted by rejoycjohn View Post
Well first of all i agree that the government departments ( if we call in a whole ) are poor in our country. And if you confirm the same , well I would say there isnt a second say on that ..
At least I know that the forest department is one of the most lucrative departments for the officials .. ! Right from the smallest post to the most highest , people are getting paid unofficially .. and this speaks for the illegal land acquisitions and poaching in Indian forests .( I am not generalizing )

As I have always said , wildlife should be conserved .. !! Is blocking a National Highway a solution for this ?
I disagree with you that the forest department is one of the most lucrative departments within a govt. I agree that the officials are being paid unofficially. But where do you think the unofficial money goes? Does it come back to the help of the department?? Not a chance.

Wildlife should be conserved no doubt, but how will it be conserved if people like you and me refuse to make compromises??

I have said this in an earlier post, blocking the highway may not be 'the' solution, but it is a small step towards the right direction.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 18:15   #99
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On my recent trip from KGudi to BR Hills, the driver of the safari jeep said that animal sightings on these roads have considerably ever since the road was neatly asphalted and open to tourists. On top of that the biggest culprit is the private buses with loud horns. Those buses are on steroids all the time!.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 19:23   #100
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Few Drivers fault. And everybody suffers. When do we Indians or Human beings learn to follow the rules. Instead of putting curbs, everybody should be taught.

There was an accident couple of years back on the Road opposite Nanda Theatre in Jayanagar. Immediately the next day, the authorities put up a Speed Breaker. The next week there were atleast 20 accidents becuase of the Speed Breaker and couple of them serious. But the Speed Breaker was not removed.

In India, the person who violates the rule is the King. I think people are still thinking that we are under British Raj. Because violating rules before Independance is a part of freedom struggle.

But it is useless to discuss about following the rules in different forums, because only people who care about others enter into such forums. What should be done is to educate the people outside the forum to follow the rules for the benifit of everybody.

I myself have failed convincing many people not to use High beam in a Car within the City. But I'll not stop advising on such small things which ultimately result in better results for all.

I feel it's useless to fine people - because they're filthy rich and don't mind paying fines. The best way is to stop them for half hour or so (for overspeeding). Or letting them compulsarily take the Left turn for blocking the Free left turn etc., In the same way overspeeding vehicles can be made to wait for an hour over the normal time spent for covering the same distance at moderate speeds, at the next checkpost in the Jungles. So, that next time they wouldn't repeat the same mistake, since an extra hour is wasted.

Last edited by jaaz : 2nd November 2009 at 19:27.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 19:57   #101
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Quote:
feel it's useless to fine people - because they're filthy rich and don't mind paying fines. The best way is to stop them for half hour or so (for overspeeding). Or letting them compulsarily take the Left turn for blocking the Free left turn etc., In the same way overspeeding vehicles can be made to wait for an hour over the normal time spent for covering the same distance at moderate speeds,
to add to what Jazz mentioned here , if the over speeding vehicle is found as the
threat to the wildlife , then let more barricades be introduced ..Let them use the wireless facility the Forest department has so that the time of entering the forest and leaving the forest been measured and communicated at the check posts so that if its over the limit , let they be penalized by making them wait for double the time..
Quote:
Nothing in the world is 'foolproof'
Even if I cant expect a rule to be foolproof , i can definitely expect it to be logical enough and give a small amount of improvement to the wildlife in this area ..
Let the statistics be published on the death of wildlife in this area and at what point of time (day or night , over a period of 3 months or 6 months ) due to traffic ..
Here even after searching deep , I dint find any data similar to what mentioned above .. not even the NGOs have put them .

Let things be logical , let the Honorable HC of Karnataka order for a study on this topic by the experts and let their report decide on the action .

Some incidents to be noted here ..
On the railway stretch near Mettupalayam where its going through a forest , accidents occur a lot more regularly which results in elephants getting killed . Group of elephants are killed here , numbers raising up to 7 -10 in each incident .
This is a statistic which I have , and I feel the railway line here has to be blocked ... at least there can be a speed limit here ..
Well as a matter of Fact neither of these are implemented here ... Are the environmentalists keeping a blind eye on to this ?Or is Indian railway is too much for them to take an action ??

I dont think that even this can be defended by mentioning that 'everything should have a start and blocking NH212 and the one to Ooty is the first step .
railway line in mettupalayam is much much older than the NH212. ( atleast for the 'busy 'traffic )

Its not just the wildlife near Bandipur / gudalur is precious .. Its everywhere ..

Again underlining the statement that this move cannot be even called as a small step towards wildlife conservation .
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Old 3rd November 2009, 10:39   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rejoycjohn View Post

Some incidents to be noted here ..
On the railway stretch near Mettupalayam where its going through a forest , accidents occur a lot more regularly which results in elephants getting killed . Group of elephants are killed here , numbers raising up to 7 -10 in each incident .
This is a statistic which I have , and I feel the railway line here has to be blocked ... at least there can be a speed limit here ..
I think you mean the Coimbatore Palghat route. There are very few instances of the blue mountain rail running into elephants. The trains are normally very slow.

The Coimbatore to Palghat stretch is infamous for running over wild pachyderms. They have a prescribed speed limit there now.
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Old 3rd November 2009, 10:54   #103
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these perpetrators of such criminal offences cannot be taught anything any more. they believe firmly they are above the law which exists only for the common man.

you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink, so trying to impose rules and so on on people like this is a waste of time.

one of the best methods - long term - is to genuinely educate our next gen right at home, at school and everywhere, to create a law abiding society for the common good.

however, this will take so much time, that by the time the effects are visible, we may not have any more wildlife with us.
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Old 5th November 2009, 14:31   #104
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Originally Posted by rejoycjohn
I just came across this thread and I definitely agree with the posts here regarding how good this move would be for the wildlife in Bandipur Wild Life sanctuary .

But I would also like to put up a different thought into this .

I am this regular traveller from Blore to Kerala through this Highway and thinking from that perspective , its not so a welcoming rule for people like us .The regular
travelling time of 7 - 8 hours has increased to 13/17 hours and that for just to cover over a distance of 360 Odd kilometers ( from Blore to Calicut ) .


Please see this alternate route which can be used to reach calicut and northern Kerala from Bangalore/Mysore and is currently used Karnataka SRTC and it doesn't take more than 8 hours

from:bangalore,india to:Unknown road to:11.82703,76.039124 to:calicut - Google Maps

Last edited by mash : 5th November 2009 at 14:45.
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Old 5th November 2009, 21:05   #105
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Quote:
Please see this alternate route which can be used to reach calicut and northern Kerala from Bangalore/Mysore and is currently used Karnataka SRTC and it doesn't take more than 8 hours
thanks for that info :-)

But as a matter of fact , the road condition over the area is so pathetic that even the private buses which came through this route for a day or two , withdrew from here either due to complaints from the passengers ,mentioning that their discs almost got dislocated in the trip or that the bus got into a workshop after a trip.

the last time I came , i even asked the driver the same question why they not coming through this route .They have this as the answer
Forget their say on this , I once took my car through this route Bavali - by mistake on my way to Kutta - ( I had to take a left somewhere after kattikulam and I missed that turn - almost 3 am in the morning ) believe me the road almost 10 km inside the forest literally took 1.5 hours one way .
The person on the other check post told us that we are in the wrong route and had to go back .
Now what I have come to know about this route is that , the road is exactly the same condition or worse after the rains from Kattikulam :-(

This route can be developed for a better road - but again the same ban thats currently in gundalpet come here too once the traffic increases in this route .

Well I dont know if I am getting a stamped as a person who is strictly against wildlife conservation and a wannabe who just cares about his /her comfort here .
And I may not be sounding very polished in this discussion thread , but the whole purpose is to give a different perspective on to a rule .
A rule which doesnt do much good for the wildlife - immediately / on longrun , but providing a lot trouble to the taxpayers .

One reality that we should know from a civilian perspective is that , once even Bangalore was known as a Bendhakalooru and probably the greenary would have been much more lush than what we have now . We developed and caused a huge loss to wildlife and nature , even now the existing trees and the parks are getting destroyed for the 'Namma Metro ' .
No ban is done to that ?? they can have a underground rail ??

I know its Off - topic ..But mentioned here as Mankind and its development-was / is / and will be a threat to nature and its natural beings .. the more we get civilized the more we destroy nature .

Here we should understand that from this Deccan Plateau , the only way to the West coast is via cutting the Western ghats - ( exception for the palghat pass ) which is a home for precious wildlife , but it becomes a 'need of the day ' to have a passage to the other side .

Let more trains be introduced to North kerala ( currently only one train from blore to cannanore - weekly ) so that people opt less to travel via road .
But trust me this wont happen ( there were measures to start more trains earlier ) ,as the Bus racket wont allow any railway minister to do anything like this .

We should rectify a problem from its root , not some superficial political steps to make sure that some section of this 'Pyramid ' is happy ..

Sorry again for a long post , I thought I should speak out !!
Cheeers

Lets see if there are some ears which are not deaf ..
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