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Old 7th March 2009, 03:17   #16
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If there was peaceful existance, I would agree with your argument traffico that it is a good example of "road sense".
But when you look at the statistics about how many people die each year on the roads, it means that somewhere the microadjustment is not working right.
So you do need rules, unless everybody here has sixth sense.
Unfortunately, the traffic police, and concerned authorities do not think so. They try rule enforcement in such a way that revenue generation is there. For example they will never prosecute a rickshaw puller for driving the wrong way, because there is no revenue there, nor will they prosecute the overloaded truck etc., because he has already paid the requisite bribes.
Many dangerous practices are ignored by these guardians of the traffic rules, because there is no money in them, yet if you are caught 1kmph above the speed limit, be prepared to pay maximum fine. Point to note however is that the said radar speed detectors have a posted error of 5%
Buddy,
You are absolutely right as i remember i was given a ticket while driving at 50 km/h, when the allowed speed was 60 km/h. I was challaned for over speeding and when asked for a speed slip, i was told that police is the speed slip and if they have said, i was going overspeed that means i was going over speed.
I had to pay 700 Rs for on the spot challan. There have been so many times when i am driving at more than 120 km/h on the same road and there is no one to stop. What i think is that the Trafic Police only start issuing tickets when they are not able to meet their monthly targets and to achieve that they give tickets to everyone, without even bothering about the reason.
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Old 7th March 2009, 07:45   #17
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An Indian Intersection without signals = Deterministic Chaos (The Chaos Theory).

It appears random but each element has a purpose in mind and an objective that will be reached!
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Old 23rd March 2009, 15:20   #18
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Default The German experiment - remove road signs!

Slightly OT but interesting enough, when we want more rules in India there are a few instances where councils abroad are taking off the road signs to ensure that people "negotiate" , make "eye-contact" and be more "social".

See this for the German experiment
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Old 24th March 2009, 03:57   #19
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this is just amazing , i wish if we could do this in probably delhi or mumbai..!
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Old 28th March 2009, 08:31   #20
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Originally Posted by traffico View Post
When I took some driving lessons here, the teacher used to tell me to go very slowly in the middle of the road without taking care of the disturbance i could create for others because the others would anyway adapt their trajectory.
This sums up in one sentence the average Indian driver's psyche. And I don't blame them, if that's what people are taught in "driving schools" here. I never went to a driving school (learnt from my dad), and thank goodness for that.
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Old 28th March 2009, 21:23   #21
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Driving schools is all theory, thats like hitting someone who is not going to hit you back.
If you want to learn how to fight, you shouldnt be fighting puppets.
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Old 28th March 2009, 21:36   #22
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
...in India we keep it simple. There is just one check
Is the other vehicle bigger than mine?
If yes, they have right of way, if no I have right of way

The power of simplicity.
But two more rules exist too, in case of accidents:
A. The smaller vehicle involved in the accident is right; and later on,
B. The richer/better-connected owner involved in the accident is right.
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Old 29th March 2009, 01:20   #23
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A. The smaller vehicle involved in the accident is right...
That's been taken advantage of, sometimes quite dangerously, by rickshaw puller, bicyclists, and even pedestrians. Its amazing how brazenly rickshaws just cut across your path. As for pedestrians you should see the scene on Mumbai roads.
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Old 29th March 2009, 10:14   #24
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this is just amazing , i wish if we could do this in probably delhi or mumbai..!
Garry, some things can be extrapolated. This is one such situation.
You'd have a hopeless gridlock, followed by fisticuffs, knifings and a few gunshots!
Not everything should be simply tried out because it worked very well elsewhere. Attitudes on the road vary wildly from country to country!

Been to Japan?
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Old 29th March 2009, 11:14   #25
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Not everything should be simply tried out because it worked very well elsewhere. Attitudes on the road vary wildly from country to country!

Been to Japan?
Why, what's the road attitude like there? My only experience with Japanese driving has been The Fast and The Furious: Tokyo Drift
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Old 29th March 2009, 22:57   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Garry, some things can be extrapolated. This is one such situation.
You'd have a hopeless gridlock, followed by fisticuffs, knifings and a few gunshots!
Not everything should be simply tried out because it worked very well elsewhere. Attitudes on the road vary wildly from country to country!

Been to Japan?
you mean it varies widely(not wildly) country to country, i have not been to japan but been to US and UK and let me tell you buddy , we Indians can do it and are capable of , the only thing is that we have politicians who would make possible things look impossible to fill their pockets.

Been to Syria..?
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Old 30th March 2009, 10:16   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Garry, some things can be extrapolated. This is one such situation.
You'd have a hopeless gridlock, followed by fisticuffs, knifings and a few gunshots!
Not everything should be simply tried out because it worked very well elsewhere. Attitudes on the road vary wildly from country to country!

Been to Japan?
Anup
Rightly said - In India the whole traffic system works on the notion of Negotiations, unwritten rules of game (game theory included in which everyone is trying to optimize their returns in a non-zero sum game situation), eye-contacts and micro-adjustments. While other countries where largely the rules are followed precisely, this type of scheme is a novelty and will work only abroad to solve their set of problems not ours.

I was quite dismayed to read the committee report on road safety and traffic management in India (Sundar Committee) - It can be accessed here
Incidentally a comparitive literature on road safety can be accessed at Road Safety in Asia and the Pacific, United Nations ESCAP and country reports at Country Reports and Presentations -- Road Safety in Asia and the Pacific, United Nations ESCAP - please do see the Indian presentation.

whereas Sundar's report does a credible job of highlighting the fact that road safety is ignored and mired in iffused or peripherial responsibilities, institutional incapability to handle increasing safty issues, lack of statutory backing to NSRC, the recommendations are just what we would call "very basic hygience factors".

If you look at Indian presentation - causal analysis on UNESCAP - they rate Driver's fault as being responsible for 80% of accidents, bad roads just 1.24% pedestrian fault at 1.30% and vehicle defects as 1.76%. I dont get it. I dont think this is any root cause analysis - it is just what the police report will say.

Any observer who has been abroad can quickly point out to the fact that first differentiation between Indian and other countries is road and road engineering - commonsense dictates that while I drive, I routinely see zero or very poor road signs, vanishing lanes (without any merging signs), varying widths of lane, no marking of wide/narrow u-turn, in cities very few lanes will be marked if at all (Hyd as an example). Add to this problems of the varying vehicles using the same roads.

In the Bangalore rant thread, you will also hear the noices of lack of traffic management and planning in cities - which is acutely compounding the problem.

While I am not arguing that we do not need education and enforcement - however first and foremost road engineering and traffic management should be given the priority - rest can work only in context of that. Take case of UK (England, Wales) or even Hongkong - even with narrow roads, but well marked and clearly articulated set of rules make it far less deadlier than Indian roads.

Incidentally, in the spirit of thread - do read Dr Joglekar's psychiatric evaluation of traffic chaos in India here.
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