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Old 31st March 2009, 15:40   #46
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How can a bullet fired in the air, on a road, get deflected?

There needs to be something it can hit and ricochet off, right.
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Old 31st March 2009, 15:42   #47
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Local boys can be a menace in Gurgaon. Perhaps the BMW occupants didn't realize that. And for those who say that an Indica cannot hold a BMW to ransom, please come and have a look at what goes on in Gurgaon at times.
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Old 31st March 2009, 15:46   #48
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I feel the facts stated by Kroniq is very believable.(Except where he says "The bullet deflected and hit the car"). This is nothing but road rage gone wrong. The Indica guy may have abused the people in the BMW after overtaking them. (Ego issues, that he has overtaken a fast and expensive car). I did see that, even the BMW has the rear glass broken, which is being explained here. When I saw the news, I was wondering, who has broken the rear glass of the BMW. The media being what they are, have spinned it in such a way that. it should all sound very dramatic (considering the various runins of BWM cars with the law).
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Old 31st March 2009, 15:52   #49
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IMO, the G D Goenka World School should rusticate the student, thus setting an example out of this exemplary punishment. Now, why should the student be rusticated?

Because, being the owner's son and thus being the de-facto owner, he must have provided tacit support to all of this. Otherwise, the driver and the guard would've thought twice before committing this act.

On a second thought, the gun licence and the driving licence of both, the guard & the driver should be cancelled with immediate effect.

The punishment should affect where it hurts the most - and that is there livelihood..
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Old 31st March 2009, 16:00   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
IMO, the G D Goenka World School should rusticate the student, thus setting an example out of this exemplary punishment. Now, why should the student be rusticated?

Because, being the owner's son and thus being the de-facto owner, he must have provided tacit support to all of this. Otherwise, the driver and the guard would've thought twice before committing this act.
GD ji, I think that will be too harsh. He was neither driving, nor did he shoot at anybody. He has become the victim of circumstances leading to these events. Being his age, I doubt he would have controlled anybody over there.

When somebody overtakes you and abuses you while doing it, you also abuse him right back. But what do you do, when he blocks you and starts a fight in his village, knowing its his territory.

It would have become real ugly, if the Indica driver also had a fire arm (Which is so common in Gurgaon)
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Old 31st March 2009, 16:02   #51
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And people keep a security guard because that enhances their status symbol.

Having said that I'm not doubting the threat perception of your friend. But the fact remains that the PSO of your friend was meant for him and not for his son/daughter unless the PSO happened to be privately hired. In that case under law the PSO has no authority to fire in public.

Mr. Kroniq, if you examine your friend's PSO's gun licence carefully it would mention that it is for his personal protection and not for anybody else.

If the PSO is State provided, then only he under the spcial provisions of the Law is allowed to use the weapon to protect the PP (protected person) only and no one else. And then also he can fire only if the PP is attacked.

Now will you please tell me here if the PSO was State provided or private and whom was he supposed to protect initially?

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Originally Posted by kroniq View Post
People keep a security guard if they have threat to their security.
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Old 31st March 2009, 16:03   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
IMO, the G D Goenka World School should rusticate the student, thus setting an example out of this exemplary punishment.
If GD Goenka, Vasant Kunj & GD Goenka World School, Sohna were remotely interested in doing anything, all they need to do is to stand on the road outside the schools & stop the underage kids from driving off in their expensive cars, after school hours.

Seriously. One needs to see it to believe it - underage driving at its rampant best. Remember the Phase IV incident?

Last edited by suman : 31st March 2009 at 16:04.
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Old 31st March 2009, 16:27   #53
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Hemant, partly my fault. My first post was an indignant reaction to what the BMW occupants did and as mentione on page 1. I read the subsequent posts later and by that time it wasw too late to edit my first post.

A class XII student is 17 yrs of age and surely must have egged on the PSO & the driver. My tone indicates that I'm biased against the BMW occupants. It isn't so.

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Originally Posted by hemanthisgreat View Post
GD ji, I think that will be too harsh. He was neither driving, nor did he shoot at anybody. He has become the victim of circumstances leading to these events. Being his age, I doubt he would have controlled anybody over there.

When somebody overtakes you and abuses you while doing it, you also abuse him right back. But what do you do, when he blocks you and starts a fight in his village, knowing its his territory.

It would have become real ugly, if the Indica driver also had a fire arm (Which is so common in Gurgaon)
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Old 31st March 2009, 16:30   #54
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Why blame them? 35 years ago when I was in school, I used to see the rich brats of Modern & DPS, drive vehicles with their drivers sitting on the passenger seat..

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
If GD Goenka, Vasant Kunj & GD Goenka World School, Sohna were remotely interested in doing anything, all they need to do is to stand on the road outside the schools & stop the underage kids from driving off in their expensive cars, after school hours.

Seriously. One needs to see it to believe it - underage driving at its rampant best. Remember the Phase IV incident?
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Old 31st March 2009, 17:06   #55
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It is a threatening situation to have a mob throw stones at you. At this point, there was at least 2 ways out, one of which is to jump back into the car and drive off. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, a shot (or more???) was fired. Maybe the SPO felt that the car occupants was being threatened by the stone-pelting, very possible.

Everything said and done, I think it is the duty of a Security guy to ensure that matters does not escalate to a point which happened here. I'm very sure egos is the cause of the whole incident.

I think the first mistake was that, the Indica guy thought he could boss over a "rich' folk, as he was in his area. (Going by Kroniq's version), although I still do not get why he would instigate an argument in the first place! No normal person would randomly abuse cars he is overtaking! Something must have happened before this, like being cut off or something else.
The second mistake, was that the security guy thought he could fight out with the Indica guy, not realizing that he is in the wrong neighbourhood.

Anyways, things are now in the hands of the Law, where God know what would be the verdict.

PS: it is possible for a bullet to deflect off a tree trunk overhead. It depend of the caliber of the bullet and the gun used. If this is the case, it is even more irresponsible of the security guy, as the bullet could have deflected to hit the BMW and its occupants.

Last edited by DriverR : 31st March 2009 at 17:09.
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Old 31st March 2009, 17:15   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar56 View Post
Why was a school student having a security guard and a gun?

A good brand like BMW (my dream is to own one!) is subjected to such bad publicity!

I hope the Indica driver did not suffer any injuries!
The student was not having the gun. The security guard did.
The security guard was with the student as his father is into a mining business, which involves a lot of risk.

Indica driver is safe. one bullet scratched his shoulder and two struck the window panes.

All three have been arrested. [the student, the driver and the guard]

Last edited by abhijeetsng : 31st March 2009 at 17:19. Reason: Addition
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Old 31st March 2009, 17:19   #57
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I'd like to toss my 2 cents in the well

It's not a sin to have a personal bodyguard, and if he's armed well that's OK too. However not all of these "bodyguards" are really professional. As for what happened between the BMW and the Indica, well god alone knows, but I doubt it's road rage.

Rich kids aren't really that bad, any 17 year old [not under the influence] knows that shooting someone is unacceptable. Perhaps it was an old feud?

Lastly about Delhi and underage driving, well seriously sorry to disappoint but we've all done it. Therefore I'd hate to say much about that being part of that whole thing. However what needs to be said is that India is prosperring and the results can be seen more evidently in the type of cars these young drivers are seen in. When I was living there, my father always said that he didn't see the point in buying me a car worth more than 18 lakhs, so that was the limit. Others even uber rich kids drew the line at E-classes, Lexus, Accords and Comrys gallore. There would be the occassional S class here and there or an SL/SLK... Today they have Ferraris and Lambos, SLs by the dozens and well the Accords and Camrys seem to have lost their appeal!

Parents need to reign in their kids a bit else they will never know how to value anything...Evedent by what is seen in this situation.
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Old 31st March 2009, 17:48   #58
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As per the news reports i read in TOI in the morning the PSO has claimed Indica guy slapped him first and so the incident followed. I can understand in anger he fired shots which was wrong.
Noticeably noone has paid heed to the driver of BMW and his version of story,after all he was trying to overtake and must have seen complete scene as well.
As for the boy initially he may have Instigated(am liking this word slowly) the driver and the PSO to show his status and muscle power but then when things went out of control he might just be a spectator as he can do nothing.
Obviously these are just assumptions am making creating the scenario in my mind and how everyone must have reacted.

However i feel arrest has been done and is a right step, no matter what you cant go on shooting at people on the road. 3 bullets could have hit anyone on the road. As his dad seems to be quiet influential i can see another escape route being prepared in the name of self defence. WIll be easy, if a BMW can turn into a truck in a court then this is very easy in front of that.

P.S- I love BMW's and my humble request to everyone to start using other ones like Porsche,audi,mercs etc as well for such acts
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Old 31st March 2009, 18:53   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kroniq View Post
In self defence a bullet was shot in the air which deflected and hit the windscreen.
How can a bullet fired into thin air deflect ? I thought it needs to hit something at an angle to deflect
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Old 31st March 2009, 19:33   #60
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There are many different versions of the story. The Indica guys overtook BMW and then stopped to start a fight. Why would they do so ? May be road rage.
But does that mean right to shoot for self defense ? Daily I come across car drivers and two wheelers that get out of their lanes and come head on with oncoming traffic. Daily I have narrow misses atleast once. All this at speeds of 40 kmph. Can I take out a guard and then if somebody comes into my lane, I argue and if he physically touches me, my guard has a right to shoot them dead ?

Daily my life is threatened by many road users, many take turns without indicators, including bus drivers. Under no circumstances does the gurad have a right to shoot at somebody. And how does a bullet ( I am talking about bullet from gun ) get deflected ? Hit it into raidator and radiator will break down. I think if the bullet hits A-pillar it might get deflected, but not otherwise.

@GD1418, backseatdriver, white_vdi, vivekiny2k, hrag, The_warrior, :
agree with you all. In Vadodara a few days ago there was an article in local daily newspaper about how those in municipal co-orperation have built large houses ( really large ) and have cars. They drive as if they have license to kill citizens.


EDIT : @docg :
Quote:
Lastly about Delhi and underage driving, well seriously sorry to disappoint but we've all done it.
Is that necessary ? Sorry if I sound offensive, but parents do have control over the kids even when they are more than 20 years old, and this applies to driving cars also. I wonder how 16-17 year old humans have the courage to drive cars. Either parents allow them or they are sure parents are not going to beat them to half death if they are caught driving cars before holding a license.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 31st March 2009 at 19:40.
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