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Old 25th July 2009, 15:00   #106
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ac, you may wish to examine DND's opex costs (its a listed company).

Your arguments are flawed because its like an EMI - the initial years are mostly for interest payments, and the opex component grows exponentially over time, and the maintenance cost grows.

If a levelised tariff were to be levied, it'd be close to 2-4 times the initial tolls!
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Old 25th July 2009, 17:55   #107
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Originally Posted by ac 427 View Post
i personally think tolls should not be there at all. Roads are basic necessities of a person, and taxing them is crime, specially after you pay road tax.
I hear you on this one and am in absolute agreement. However, state of Mumbai roads being the way they are (realistically), a counter argument could be:

1. If there wasn't any toll, the bandra-worli sea link would be just as clogged with traffic as the regular arterial road.

2. Charging for a premium alternate route is not a concept unique to India. I've seen it in several countries around the world, where a second (quicker) option entails a toll. Therefore, its not like anyone is forcing you to pay to drive to a certain place. The primary road is still free.

Still, the government has no excuse for maintaining Mumbai's infrastructure in the shabby state that they do.
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Old 25th July 2009, 17:59   #108
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On a related note, In my driving experience, if there is a well-tarred,decent road, I've always had to pay a toll. Always!
I guess I pay the road tax for potholes.
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Old 26th July 2009, 20:25   #109
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Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
Any idea about the crash on the sea-link ? Saw it on the news - pretty badly damaged cars - a Swift and a NHC.
According to the news there were 3 cars. The Swift driver apparently lost control and went on the other side to hit a cabbie and the NHC, of which the NHC was badly damaged. Both the parties were taken to Poddar Hospital and then Hinduja Hospital, but no major injuries.
I believe the swift driver admitted to it being his fault. (Not confirmed though).
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Old 28th July 2009, 14:14   #110
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
ac, you may wish to examine DND's opex costs (its a listed company).

Your arguments are flawed because its like an EMI - the initial years are mostly for interest payments, and the opex component grows exponentially over time, and the maintenance cost grows.

If a levelised tariff were to be levied, it'd be close to 2-4 times the initial tolls!
i am not in agreement with you on this one phamilyman.
Toll is not the only way money can be made. These guys can use Advertising as a great money maker.

Today the hoardings @ Mahim cost around 15 lacs for 15 days, thats a lac a day. Now why cant these guys keep advertising space up there for rent ? its a viable source of revenue and thick revenue too.

A little bit of foresight could have helped them a lot too, viz : making it a sightseeing place. Like charge people who want to come up the pillars of the Sea link, thinking even more abstract i think they could have built a restraunt.... the possibilities are endless.

Its this dumbness I am oppposed to, its this lack of foresight i am opposed to, its this uptight attitude of these guys I am opposed to.

@GTO : I Agree and understand where you coming from, but if the alternate route theory is there why not build tolls for all flyovers ??

My point is simple, Mumbai NEEDED a sea link or some kinda alternate solution to its traffic woe, it was not an 'want' it was a 'need'. And the Govt by building an overpriced Sea-link, which took twice as long to build and when bult function at 75% of its capacity does not impress at all.

cheers,
ac
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Old 28th July 2009, 15:31   #111
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To some extent I agree with ac, well we pay income tax by the nose to enable the government to provide us with exactly the same kind of facility. And then we find that all the basic amenities are charged over and above the regular IT. Look at what the did with the old Mumbai Pune route even that is tolled.
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Old 28th July 2009, 18:19   #112
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Quote:
My point is simple, Mumbai NEEDED a sea link or some kinda alternate solution to its traffic woe, it was not an 'want' it was a 'need'.
The way that I see it, unfortunately, its not as simple as building a sea link from bandra-worli or versova-nariman point. What Mumbai really needs is a world class public transportation system. A sealink is only a stop-gap measure toward the inevitable.

But then, thats an entirely different topic
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Old 29th July 2009, 12:40   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The way that I see it, unfortunately, its not as simple as building a sea link from bandra-worli or versova-nariman point. What Mumbai really needs is a world class public transportation system. A sealink is only a stop-gap measure toward the inevitable.

But then, thats an entirely different topic
Couldn't agree with you more but as we talk the worli side of the sea - link has already developed POT HOLEs. It just completed 1 month today, the tarmac couldnt take a months wear and tear....Horrendous.

Man these guys cant mange anything.

ac
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Old 29th July 2009, 13:33   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I hear you on this one and am in absolute agreement. However, state of Mumbai roads being the way they are (realistically), a counter argument could be:

1. If there wasn't any toll, the bandra-worli sea link would be just as clogged with traffic as the regular arterial road.

2. Charging for a premium alternate route is not a concept unique to India. I've seen it in several countries around the world, where a second (quicker) option entails a toll. Therefore, its not like anyone is forcing you to pay to drive to a certain place. The primary road is still free.

Still, the government has no excuse for maintaining Mumbai's infrastructure in the shabby state that they do.
GTO - The toll is justified on shorter routes, provided the said route is also well maintained. However I have so many times notices that we are forced to pay a toll for all major highways, even when they are in the most shabby state. Case in point is the Mumbai-Ahmadabad highway. Its full of toll booths, but a lot of patches of the road (till Gujarat at least) are full of pot holes. In such a case, are they still justified in asking (demanding) the toll?
Another case in point is the Mumbai-Pune route. When I use the quicker Expressway I readily pay the toll, however when I use the older Mumbai-Pune road I still end up paying a toll (albeit its slightly lesser). Is the toll on the old Mumbai-Pune highway justified? Thus there is no FREE route for going from Mumbai to Pune (if one exist then pl share).
We should also not forget that we are already paying an addition Re. 1/lt of fuel as a cess for all the so called wonderful fly-overs that the MH Govt has built. Then how come there's a toll for entry & exit points?
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Old 29th July 2009, 16:13   #115
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I am in agreement with all the sentiments expressed above. Taxes, within the Indian context, are only a means to extract maximum revenue. They are the end itself and not the means to an end (i.e. taxing to improve infrastructure etc).

Mumbai...what can I say? This is one city which is the biggest paradox there is. Where else do you have 2-3 feet of floods on the streets every monsoon, but no water in your homes?

This city is heading fast towards a complete breakdown of infrastructure. People (i.e. the city's so-called leaders, politicians etc) need to wake up fast, and get into action.

Last edited by kurmist : 29th July 2009 at 16:16.
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Old 30th July 2009, 10:00   #116
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So, yesterday was the first time that I used the bandra-worli sealink during working hours. For work. When time is money. Left for the meeting in Bandra, from Churchgate, at 1550.

1614 hours - passed Atria Mall
1619 hours - Got on the sea link
1623 hours - Paid toll at the bandra end.

I reached my associate's office at 1635....within 45 minutes of having left from Churchgate. This was UNTHINKABLE prior to the BWSL. Are 30 minutes of my time worth 50 bucks? You betcha. Not to mention, the fuel saved in travelling a shorter distance.
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Old 30th July 2009, 10:39   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
So, yesterday was the first time that I used the bandra-worli sealink during working hours. For work. When time is money. Left for the meeting in Bandra, from Churchgate, at 1550.

1614 hours - passed Atria Mall
1619 hours - Got on the sea link
1623 hours - Paid toll at the bandra end.

I reached my associate's office at 1635....within 45 minutes of having left from Churchgate. This was UNTHINKABLE prior to the BWSL. Are 30 minutes of my time worth 50 bucks? You betcha. Not to mention, the fuel saved in travelling a shorter distance.
thats the only reason why we are all happy
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Old 31st July 2009, 02:17   #118
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I did a comparision of the route via the iDrive journey computer to make things more clear. Check pics below-

All possible details required are mentioned, one of the trips is via sea-link and the other is the old route.
Any guesses? From the look of it, it really doesn't matter which ones which !


Not sure if this has been discussed here but the cross-winds on the sea-link are a major concern. Particularly in the straight middle patch. Lets face it, most do not abide by the speed limits here- If you do stay in the limit, you are safe. But the road does tempt me quite a bit and things can get scary if you go full monty.
Cruising along in the Altis I didn't realize I hit 120 until I felt the car sway a bit, if you try and break speeds rapidly the wind pushes harder. Push speeds any further and things can get ugly if you don't have precise control.
I am running on slightly wider rubber- 205, but I guess the typical Japanese trait of a light body is the culprit here. The BMW on the other hand feels rock solid it higher speeds but I am sure if you push her to 180ish speeds she too would feel a little under pressure by the ghastly winds.
What is a solution for this? Besides having a heavier car, would wider rubber help fight the wind better?
Attached Thumbnails
Bandra Worli Sea Link is finally ready to ferry vehicles-img_0097.jpg  

Bandra Worli Sea Link is finally ready to ferry vehicles-img_0098.jpg  

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Old 31st July 2009, 04:25   #119
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You took the normal route at night sahil, hence your averages are up eh? Why not try it at like say 7pm/old route?
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Old 31st July 2009, 12:46   #120
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Haha, NICE! As quickdraw posted, how about a daytime run on either route (your daily run,right?). Will be interesting to gauge the difference in time travelled + fuel efficiency.
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