Accident : Merc rams into horse cart - Page 2 - Team-BHP

Gordon · 17th June 2005, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

Every report notes speeding as the cause. As me and you both know, not all accidents are speeding related.

Very true. Speed is not the "only" cause of accidents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

Even if the Mercedes had to crash into him at 50 km/h, the poor cart would have been blown to pieces.

Clearly, but it seems he was indeed speeding, because he did apply the brakes and the skid marks are present. A quote from the article.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speeding Merc rams into horsecart; 4 hurt

The Kherwadi police said that Rahul was returning home from a training session conducted at the ITC Grand Maratha Sheraton and was accompanied by a driver. As it was around midnight, the car was speeding.

Emergency brakes were applied as the tyre tracks were found on the bridge, but it was too late and the car rammed into the cart.

And also the fact that it threw all four people off the cart injuring three of them critically.

All this points out to only one conclusion. The car was at a very high speed. It couldn't be a mere 50 kmph because he did apply the brakes. Its a Mercedes and IMO the brakes should be good enough to stop a car from 50kmph. Next one would tell he braked too late. He didn't brake soo late, as you could see the skid marks.

Rtech · 17th June 2005, 17:11

Gordon, if a mercedes Benz hits a home-made wooden cart at even 45kmph, the carts occupants are going to be flung off and the cart damaged. Have you seen the damage even a crash of 30 kmph can cause?

Gordon · 17th June 2005, 17:24

Please read my earlier post.
If he was at anywhere below 50kmph, when he applied the brake, he could've missed them. He didn't. You and me both know that he was no where inside the 50kmph mark.

Why is everyone trying to prove that the Mercedes guy is not wrong and that he wasn't speeding?!

He didn't have his driving licence.
He was well above the speed limit.
He "also" was at fault for sure and there is no compromising on that.
For example, a person even 5 kmph above the speed limit is illegal and there is no arguing that. What is wrong, is wrong.

Rtech · 17th June 2005, 17:42

I replied to your unedited post Gordon.

Quote:

If he was at anywhere below 50kmph, when he applied the brake, he could've missed them.

How can you say that with such authority? You have no idea of the road conditions, where exactly the cart was or even which direction the kart was moving in.

Quote:

Why is everyone trying to prove that the Mercedes guy is not wrong and that he wasn't speeding?!

We are not trying to prove this guys innocence. We are talking in principle here. Every accident involving a car and either a pedestrian or, in this case, a cart, does not automatically mean the car driver was at fault. What was the cart doing there? Has anyone (read-police / press) bothered to ask that question? The press loves to exaggerate stories, especially ones like "rich kid in Benz hits poor family on cart". And remember, Mid-Day is a tabloid, so their coverage is even worse.

The law is supposed to be blind. Yes, if the kid did something wrong (which he did by not having his licence on him - the only confirmed crime on his part at this moment) then punish him. But, the person handling the cart should also be taken to task for being in a place where he is not allowed, thus causing an accident.

GTO · 17th June 2005, 17:47

He may be at fault, or he couldnt. You wernt there, neither was I.

But the point I am trying to make is how every young kid in an accident is supposedly speeding, painted as living off his fathers wealth and reckless.

GTO

Gordon · 17th June 2005, 18:02

Quote:

We are not trying to prove this guys innocence. We are talking in principle here. Every accident involving a car and either a pedestrian or, in this case, a cart, does not automatically mean the car driver was at fault. What was the cart doing there? Has anyone (read-police / press) bothered to ask that question? The press loves to exaggerate stories, especially ones like "rich kid in Benz hits poor family on cart". And remember, Mid-Day is a tabloid, so their coverage is even worse.

I've never mentioned that its ONLY the Merc guy's fault. The fault is of both, the Merc guy and the cart guy, which is exactly why I mentioned about the Merc guy:
The Merc guy "also" was at fault for sure and there is no compromising on that.

Quote:

But, the person handling the cart should also be taken to task for being in a place where he is not allowed, thus causing an accident.

Of course.

Quote:

painted as living off his fathers wealth and reckless.

I never said that. Its true this is the general thinking scenario of the public, which is very sad.

Boom Shiva · 17th June 2005, 18:13

I haven't checked, but I'm sure Vakola flyover has a signboard prohibiting pedestrians, cycles and bullock carts from getting on. They're supposed to go from underneath, since they are a hazard to other vehicles.

I'm sure the family on the horsecart were only trying to have a good time, but then so was the kid in the Benz. Both let their enthusiam get the better of their judgement.

Mid-Day is a piece of crap. They'll milk the "rich kid v/s poor victims" story for a while, then run the usual stale rehashes (salman khan, puru raj kumar, that nanda dude in delhi etc) for as long as they can, and then forget about it.

What pisses me off the most is that no one is even going to TRY and get people to be more responsible. People will still speed irresponsibly, and horsecarts will still be a danger on highways and flyovers.

So people will continue to die.

Sick.

navin · 19th June 2005, 02:32

in a country with a socialist background whenever there is an accident it is automatically assumed that the persone driving the more expensive vehicle is at fault. this usually stems from the fact that more money can be extracted from the person adjuged to be at fault and also this fallacy we live with is that all wealth is ill gotten and any ostentatious display of wealth is frowned upon (including cars - remember in india cars are still considered a luxury).

couple this with the age of the driver .....

the primary reason for most accidents in india (including the one in which the driver was driving fast) is th fact this deadly mix of traffic we have. cows, bullock cars, pedestrians, rickshaws, cars, busses, trucks, all jostle together for the same space.

other comparable cities have 3-6 tiers of traffic with commerical traffic, light traffic, pedestrians, public transport all operating on seperate roads. a horse cart on a bridge would be moving at a speed less than 5kmph (for all purposes standing still). even if the merc was travelling at 30kmph the driver would have had to be alert to stop in time. at 60 kmph (not fast but merc standards) it would have been quite impossible.

Montoya · 19th June 2005, 12:30

Quote:

Another night another accident

Why do accidents occur in the night. people get reckless or something and think night time is the right time to speed..

Quote:

horse cart on the Vakola flyover injuring the four occupants and the horses

I have seen a horse cart near the airport having two horses.. they travel at speeds of around 60kmph and at those speeds the accident would have been terrible..

Well after reading the midday linky i feel i was also on the same road.. as i overtook the horses.. they were fast.. the time was around 1A.M in the night and it was on Wednesday morning the 15th morning of this month i.e 4 days back..

speedsatya · 19th June 2005, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boom Shiva

I haven't checked, but I'm sure Vakola flyover has a signboard prohibiting pedestrians, cycles and bullock carts from getting on. They're supposed to go from underneath, since they are a hazard to other vehicles.

how do you expect illiterate people in bullock cats,horse carts to read whats written on the signboards???????

but ,i think it will help if we also exercise caution when the visiblity is low .

F50 · 19th June 2005, 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montoya

Why do accidents occur in the night. people get reckless or something and think night time is the right time to speed..

Answer is very simple, because the roads are empty at night and which are very hard to find during day time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montoya

I have seen a horse cart near the airport having two horses.. they travel at speeds of around 60kmph and at those speeds the accident would have been terrible..

60 kmph!!! wow thats fast, very fast. Whats the retail of one of those?

How do you know they were doing 60?

v1p3r · 19th June 2005, 14:06

60kmph on a 2bhp cart? Was it carbon fibre for ultimate weigh reduction?!

Montoya · 19th June 2005, 14:07

Quote:

How do you know they were doing 60?

Well once i was on par with them i kep speed cosntant to see whats the speed they are travelling and its was at 60kmph

Well retail i dont think so but you wont get below a lac. But at 2 lacs you get 8 horses.. M800LOL

speedsatya · 19th June 2005, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montoya

. But at 2 lacs you get 8 horses.. M800LOL

dude m800 is 38bhp in its 6 valve engine while its 45bhp inits 12 valve.

whats this 8 horse story?????can you explain

F50 · 19th June 2005, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montoya

Well once i was on par with them i kep speed cosntant to see whats the speed they are travelling and its was at 60kmph

A thoroughbred racehorse can achieve a maximum speed of around 49 kmh .. 60 seems too much, did you consider speedo error of your car?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montoya

Well retail i dont think so but you wont get below a lac. But at 2 lacs you get 8 horses.. M800LOL

Im not that fool to spend 2 lacs on puny 800 nor on horses ..... I will get a car with more ponies under its hood for that much grip man.

17th June 2005, 17:11	#17 (permalink)
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,617 View My Garage	Gordon, if a mercedes Benz hits a home-made wooden cart at even 45kmph, the carts occupants are going to be flung off and the cart damaged. Have you seen the damage even a crash of 30 kmph can cause? __________________ He who makes the loudest noise usually has the least to say. Unfortunately they don't realise that and keep at it! ____

17th June 2005, 17:24	#18 (permalink)
Gordon Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,966 View My Garage	Please read my earlier post. If he was at anywhere below 50kmph, when he applied the brake, he could've missed them. He didn't. You and me both know that he was no where inside the 50kmph mark. Why is everyone trying to prove that the Mercedes guy is not wrong and that he wasn't speeding?! He didn't have his driving licence. He was well above the speed limit. He "also" was at fault for sure and there is no compromising on that. For example, a person even 5 kmph above the speed limit is illegal and there is no arguing that. What is wrong, is wrong. __________________ Team-BHP.com > Motorbikes > Yamaha Cafe Racer Team-BHP.com > Collection of Best Threads > Enfield Cafe Racer

17th June 2005, 17:47	#20 (permalink)
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 13,421 View My Garage	He may be at fault, or he couldnt. You wernt there, neither was I. But the point I am trying to make is how every young kid in an accident is supposedly speeding, painted as living off his fathers wealth and reckless. GTO __________________ GTO Change the way you think, and watch the world change around you. Please don't PM for support. Use the Contact Form instead. Please read the NEW Team-BHP FAQ section for all your queries.

19th June 2005, 14:06	#27 (permalink)
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR - chasing cars... Posts: 4,180 View My Garage	60kmph on a 2bhp cart? Was it carbon fibre for ultimate weigh reduction?! __________________ *I've lost my phone. Please PM me your phone number if I'm on your contact list.*

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17th June 2005, 18:13	#22 (permalink)
Boom Shiva BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,051	I haven't checked, but I'm sure Vakola flyover has a signboard prohibiting pedestrians, cycles and bullock carts from getting on. They're supposed to go from underneath, since they are a hazard to other vehicles. I'm sure the family on the horsecart were only trying to have a good time, but then so was the kid in the Benz. Both let their enthusiam get the better of their judgement. Mid-Day is a piece of crap. They'll milk the "rich kid v/s poor victims" story for a while, then run the usual stale rehashes (salman khan, puru raj kumar, that nanda dude in delhi etc) for as long as they can, and then forget about it. What pisses me off the most is that no one is even going to TRY and get people to be more responsible. People will still speed irresponsibly, and horsecarts will still be a danger on highways and flyovers. So people will continue to die. Sick.

19th June 2005, 02:32	#23 (permalink)
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: mumbai Posts: 11,462	in a country with a socialist background whenever there is an accident it is automatically assumed that the persone driving the more expensive vehicle is at fault. this usually stems from the fact that more money can be extracted from the person adjuged to be at fault and also this fallacy we live with is that all wealth is ill gotten and any ostentatious display of wealth is frowned upon (including cars - remember in india cars are still considered a luxury). couple this with the age of the driver ..... the primary reason for most accidents in india (including the one in which the driver was driving fast) is th fact this deadly mix of traffic we have. cows, bullock cars, pedestrians, rickshaws, cars, busses, trucks, all jostle together for the same space. other comparable cities have 3-6 tiers of traffic with commerical traffic, light traffic, pedestrians, public transport all operating on seperate roads. a horse cart on a bridge would be moving at a speed less than 5kmph (for all purposes standing still). even if the merc was travelling at 30kmph the driver would have had to be alert to stop in time. at 60 kmph (not fast but merc standards) it would have been quite impossible.