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Old 2nd August 2009, 00:22   #31
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While I am saddened by the lose of life there, IMO, its just another example of stupid driving and "false sense of security". Had the Beemer been crashed into a M800 or Omni, what would have been the result? We all know there would be lose of life, and the victims will be the passengers of.....

Totally agree with the "protector turns hunter" technology in today's cars. Last year, an Innova met with a fire incident in Kerala at midnight, and a family has perished. All doors were jammed and people had a very tough time opening them.

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Originally Posted by sudev View Post
IMHO amazing stupidity to sue and win against a manufacturer in such circumstances. Even a fully loaded truck will stop in 15 seconds.
(Sorry for OT, mods) totally agree with you Sudev sir.

Even if the truck driver cant bring the 18-wheeler to a stop within 15 seconds (a breaking distance of 500 meters! @ 75 mph), he could still be able to avoid a collision, especially a head-on collision?
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Old 2nd August 2009, 01:05   #32
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Can we say for sure that the BMW was at fault? No one knows what the truth is since I'd take the newspaper reports with a pinch of salt. I know of cases when a car going at 60kph on a relatively empty road being misrepresented by media as "high speed".

Instead of pouncing on the car's occupants, its best to just stop speculating and pray that the deceased rest in peace. For all we know this could have been a case of the trailer suddenly cutting across the highway. Haven't we seen that way too many times?

One does have to say though that the car burning to nothing in 20 mins is rather strange.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 01:27   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick5490 View Post
Knew 3 of the deceased in that car personally. One of them was the Works Manager, and as people stated, they were not on a joy ride. The car in question is an 8-10 yr old L7 - 750Li, owned previously by one of the biggest name in Ahmedabad. Very Very shaken up by the incident.. may their soul rest in peace..
I am sorry to ask you this, but knowing them can you please elaborate on what you think might have happened?
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Old 2nd August 2009, 02:35   #34
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Off the cuff here, but doors often jam in major accidents. Surely that is the main reason why rescue workers have to slice the roof off to get people out?

It's a possibility to consider: that there was no lock failure, but simply deformation of the body.

On the other hand, I recall that the behaviour of locking mechanisms in the event of accidents was something that came under scrutiny in UK some years back. I have no idea, though, how many years ago.

There's a quote in one of the articles linked to
Quote:
Parsoli Motors’ legal advisor J J Patel told AM General Manager BMW (India) Home Richard was rushing to city from Chennai for a first-hand assessment of the accident. “Our team was on a test drive when the car hit a trailer and caught fire. This is the first intance in the world of a BMW catching fire,” said Patel.
Sorry, but I do not believe there is any mass-producing vehicle manufacturer of any age who has never had one of their vehicles catch fire. Sounds like bull to me.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 05:14   #35
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We should all take heed from this this. A car is only as safe as the driver. Driving a little rash because you have ABS, makes your car less safer than a normal car driven with sanity.
Sure, safety features are great but they only make a car at most 1.5-2 times as safe as a maruti 800 (with seat belts). These features are to be bought as contingency. As in, when everything fails, the partcular feature might help you. These are not meant to give you a false sense of safety, which should lead you into driving like a maniac.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 09:10   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quickdraw View Post
I am sorry to ask you this, but knowing them can you please elaborate on what you think might have happened?
Well, i do not think I should elaborate here. But as per the media, they had to chop off the roof and the side frames to remove the victims. The locks jamming automatically is strange, but i remember reading somewhere that the doors lock automatically so that the doors do not open automatically in case the car topples and the occupants are not thrown out. So if you observe carefully, the new gen BMW's have door handles which can be grabbed and pulled. And again the car had an old V12 engine with very complex wiring, so the reasons for the fire are too many. In one of the pics, you can still see the huge mass of unburnt wires.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 09:23   #37
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Quote:
ramkya1 : A 1.6 tonn car rams you from behind at high speed (one eyewitness said about 200kmph+) gets entangled & gets dragged, the driver would not notice ANYTHING? geared for it.
@Ramky, answer is explained by @aaggoswami :
Quote:
aaggoswami : 2) About the car being pulled for so much time and no reaction from driver, its possible. These drivers are almost deaf after driving the trucks. I have travelled for 60 kms in one so I know what is the amount of noise that is present in the cabin. Next, they have good amount of torque, so 1.6 ton on rolling pair of wheels ( the rear wheels were not that badly affected as per the image I can see in newspaper so assuming that the front end got entangled and rear wheels were rotating freely ) will not matter much to it.
Also, the truck - neither tractor nor trailer - doesnt have anything more than leaf springs. And with our roads, the truck is never going to get a smooth ride. Loud metallic clangs as the truck goes over any un-even spots are more norm than the exception. With the amount of driving that these drivers do in those conditions : that roaring engine next to him, and all other sounds that the driver is subjected to, it is quite natural that he would not notice these things, or give heed either. Remember, the truck is still going as it was before - same speed, same trajectory. And these guys are already beyond caring for the road surface, speed bumps/potholes etc.

Quote:
aaggoswami : Aren't the normal truck overloaded by more than 2 tons dead weight ?
Well more than 2 tonnes : actually almost double permitted loads.

Quote:
quickdraw : I am sorry to ask you this, but knowing them can you please elaborate on what you think might have happened?
Dead men dont talk, do they ?
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Old 2nd August 2009, 11:24   #38
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It is sad to see such accidents. That said, we can only talk about it. Authorities do not take any action to prevent such a thing.

I feel that there are too many assumptions here, had there been any survivors the true story would have emerged. Pedestrians have subconscious assumption to over estimates speeds, car company will point out driver mistake or stress people to upgrade their cars with security and safety features in their new gen cars. Transport authorities will never blame anyone, they call this as freak accident. After a while all will be back to same thing, few will speed, few will get hurt, more die and government will import old gen passive technology and make mindless use to keep people happy.

All in all, our roads infra (Tarmac + design + road side assistance + trauma centers) are not good to take 100+ speeds, no matter what car you are on.

I was doing 140+ when a jumping bull came on the highway and was charging towards the oncoming traffic, dodge it to see a tractor-trolley trying full throttle to jump the road divider, then came truckers/bikers/UVs trying to avoid a long you U-turn on the main higway and to top it all they were racing amongst themselves on the wrong side. In total a normal day for them for me at 140+ too much to handle. I had to slow down to 100 in order to make preemptive decisions for the situation that might come up in a jiffy. I was not afraid as how the car was performing but I was afraid of the lack of infrastructure (Medics and trauma centers in the towns and villages I crossed).

Enthusiastic driving in India is confined to closed circuits, in Germany they built autobahns.
Few Stats...
India's road accident record 1998: 6 % of the world's road accident deaths happen
in India (while India has only 1 % of the world's road vehicles) [GBoWR]
- death and injury caused by accidents on India's roads: 1 person dies every 6
minutes; 10 are injured in the same time frame [BBC; Sep 2005]
- * India's percentage of global car population: 1% [Daily Telegraph Sep 06]
- * India's share of global car accidents: 10% [Daily Telegraph Sep 06]
- financial losses due to road traffic injuries 2005: 550 bn Rs = 3% of GDP
[BBC; Sep 2005]
Source: India statistics facts and figures | neoncarrot travelog

Please compare Autobahns:
Autobahn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Accident Evaluation).

My style: Drive as safe as you can, and enjoy life smoking rubber in a closed circuit.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 11:48   #39
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ohh lord...Sahil/Maverick you listening my concerns?!

My BMW has been in accident twice already in 3 months of purchase, with car loosing handling in rain.

@maverick - sorry to hear about the loss bro. May they rest in peace.

Last edited by spiff : 2nd August 2009 at 11:56.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 12:15   #40
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Sorry to preach: cars do not "loose handling" --- drivers loose control of cars.

There's a "trick" question for the UK test (actually, it may be a mythical question, but it has certainly been used by instructors to good effect):

What causes a skid?



... ... ...






ok... now that a dozen or so things to do with the car and the road have passed through your mind, the answer is: The Driver.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 12:32   #41
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BMW crash: Collision itself may have turned fatal
The Car Was Taken Out For Routine Inspection On A Regular Route; Forensic Experts Start Examination
TIMES NEWS NETWORK


Ahmedabad: The first collision between the BMW car and trailer carrying a railway container might have turned fatal for the four men traveling in the car, said Sarkhej police station officials after a team of forensic experts visited the spot soon after the incident.
An official statement by BMW India termed the incident as ‘unfortunate’ and stated that the associates of the company had taken the car out for a routine inspection on their regular route. Officials have also mentioned that the BMW L7 car that got charred in the accident, was imported in 2000. It was sold to Parsoli Motors by the buyer, an industrialist, on May 13, 2009 as part of a trade-in-deal. Its ownership is with Parsoli Motors.
After examining the car, forensic experts said it was likely that the four might have died or severely injured soon after the collision itself. “The collision might have happened at the speed of around 100 - 120 km per hour. The structure of the car was severely damaged. It was almost unidentifiable. As a result the circuit got broken and jammed the doors. Some might have been alive but the two men sitting in front were surely dead,” said a Sarkhej police station official.
RM Sarode, sub-inspector of Sarkhej police station, told TOI they found the trailer number RJ 19 GA 6116 from near the Sardar Patel ring road circle on Saturday morning. “Later, the driver, Puransingh Rawat, a native of Uttaranchal, turned up to record his statement. However, we have not registered any case against him as he did not have any probable role in the mishap. The trailer was carrying a railway container. The axle of the trailer has been found broken. This shows the force of the impact,” he said.
Forensic experts are yet to give their opinion on the condition of the car.
‘My brother knew ins and outs of luxury cars’
Rizwan Shaikh, brother of Yaseen Shaikh, said his brother was a diploma automobile engineer and was working at Parsoli Motors for around five years. He was a skilled mechanic as far as luxury cars were concerned and knew the ins and outs of the cars such as one that got charred."If a skilled mechanic as my brother, and mind you, he was not alone, could not open the lock, what if such a mishap took place with a layman in the car? The car should be checked properly to find out how such defects can be removed to save lives. After all, all the four men were experts in their fields," he said. He added that Azam Khan Pathan, 23, one of the technicians, tried to make a call soon after the collision. "I don’t have the full detail but what I got to know was, the last number dialed by Pathan was of a relative whom he told that they were stuck in the car and it is badly damaged. After that, the phone went silent," said Shaikh. When police were contacted on the issue, they said that investigations were on. TNN

1 A motorcycle swerves between the BMW and the trailer on Ognaj highway on Friday

2 The car driver loses control and rams into the rear of the trailer

3 Oblivious of the accident, the trailer driver move on, dragging the car for 500 metres

4 After a while, the car gets disentangled but the passengers are unable open the locked doors

5 The car then burst into flames, burning alive the four trapped inside it

SOURCE : TIMES OF INDIA.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 13:09   #42
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Doing anything above 120 -130 Kmph is like you are buying an on line lottery for death on Indian roads ( though you re eligible too for once you re above 80 Kmph ) you might have a slim chance of winning , its not only that roads have to be good ,there are many other things required for safe driving .

The other day i went to Gurgaon on huge road i was only driving at 70 or may be less the car in front of me suddenly turned left it was a wagon R and guy on bike who was coming for rear banged it

I managed to brake somehow and what do have in from of us A BULL sitting right in the Middle of the Road ,what the hell imagine if i was at 90 these are not roads but only wide open killing stretches ,and it takes only one contribution from you side SPEED .IT will definitely help to own a bigger better car but YOU still have chance to win that lottery

Previously we cribbed infrastructure ,but Harsh truth is more people were safe with bad roads What we need is serious amount of Education to Drive on Expressways and law enforcement which should be second to none in the world

But if will take atleast 20 -30 years before anything will be done ,these people if they died driving at 200 Kmphs had they have been FINED 10 times before or sent to jail for 2-3 days ( i dont believe its was there first time driving that fast )would have been alive today ,and there must be hundreds of thousands like them

I have Phobia now about this Auto locking stuff ,but sadly in any good car
one will not have manual locking Damn that maruti 800 was better where we could kick the door and get out

Last edited by rubin2006 : 2nd August 2009 at 13:14.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 13:10   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Sorry to preach: cars do not "loose handling" --- drivers loose control of cars.

There's a "trick" question for the UK test (actually, it may be a mythical question, but it has certainly been used by instructors to good effect):

What causes a skid?



... ... ...






ok... now that a dozen or so things to do with the car and the road have passed through your mind, the answer is: The Driver.
Please read this : BMW 5-series Handling Problems - CarSpace Automotive Forums
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Old 2nd August 2009, 13:50   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Sorry to preach: cars do not "loose handling" --- drivers loose control of cars.

There's a "trick" question for the UK test (actually, it may be a mythical question, but it has certainly been used by instructors to good effect):
.
Sorry for OT:

You mean LOSE. . Heh. Imagine the chances of Thad making a grammatical/spelling error!
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Old 2nd August 2009, 14:27   #45
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Spiff: thanks for the interesting link; yes, I can get off the high horse and say that there are badly designed and badly built cars. Whilst one should always drive a car within limits, one does not expect such bad habits of a luxury , performance vehicle.

Nikhilb: my spelling has been hopeless all my life. I blame my language

Back to topic...
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