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Old 30th September 2009, 12:20   #61
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Only part I DONOT agree is passing the buck on responsibility over to the driver blindly, which is the "usual" case in India. Hope the case was well represented and facts of the case argued extensively by the honourable judge.
Sorry for the nitpicking : it should be case argued "before" the honourable judge and not by the judge.

My take on this issue is that the honourable judge has delivered a judgment specific to the facts in the present case and need not be taken as a caselaw for deciding similar sounding cases where the matter should rest on the facts.

When I first read this news report, I too was irritated at being car owners being targetted unfairly. A thought crossed my mind : Wouldnt it be a good idea to have a video cam installed facing the windscreen to capture all that happens during a drive ( similar to the blackbox concept of an aeroplane ). This would help us in presenting facts in the event of any unfortunate events.


Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please use the "edit" button if posting within 20 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Last edited by Dippy : 30th September 2009 at 12:31. Reason: See note in post
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Old 30th September 2009, 14:39   #62
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
classic case of Have-Nots resenting the Haves..
In India with our socialist ideals this is often the case.

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Why is our legal system so blind?! Rail roads are meant for trains, Runways for planes and roads are primarily meant for vehicles, and they have the legal right to ply on them and pay the tax to upkeep them.
Most Indian cities (if not all) are terriblly pedestrian unfriendly. Every pavement/footpath I have seen in Mumbai is overrun by hawkers, beggars on encroached on by shops and cafes.

Road crossings are few and far between and underground (like the one at Haji Ali) and overground (Like the one at Chowpati on Marine Drive) crossings are often not used or sparingly used at best.

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Originally Posted by theMAG View Post
Another example of why this country will never become a motoring country.
We are a country that treats the motor car as a luxury (which it indeed is for 70+% of the population).

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Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
Lets not get into the technicalities, we both agree that the motorist and pedestrians were both at fault. It doesn't matter whose fault was bigger, both of them had to suffer. The pedestrian did not survive, and the motorist had to face the court proceedings.

Just remembered an old saying - After a battle, it doesn't matter who is RIGHT, what matters is who is LEFT. Same thing applies to road accidents too, no amount of monetary compensation can compensate for the loss of a loved one. I just wish that people had more road sense and had value for life - their life and others' life.
Rohan, you hit the nail on it's head.
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Old 30th September 2009, 16:16   #63
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Kids will be kids, we all know that, we ourselves have been kids and we still probably can remember how we acted then. And now we all have matured to a certain level to understand what's right and what's wrong. So is it us or the kids who has to be more responsible? If someone speeds near a school and hits a kid I don't have any sympathy for that person. He hasn't yet matured with his age. Period.
I know kids will be kids... but it will bring the attendant consequences. The laws of physics will not change just because a kid suddenly materializes in front of you. Now I am NOT talking about negligent behavior. I'm talking about a situation like I mentioned a few posts earlier where an old man suddenly decided to materialize right in front of me. I was perfectly alert and that saved me from falling off the bike, but there was nothing I could do to bring my mass+bike's mass to come to a dead stop on the spot, to prevent my impact with him.

That said, when I was a kid, my dad took time to emphasize road discipline to me the moment I was old enough to walk on the roads. He clearly told me, no matter whose fault it is, it is you who will get hurt. He even spied on me to see what I was doing behind his back. So personally, I cannot empathize when you said "we ourselves have been kids and we still probably can remember how we acted then". I never got to be that kind of kid, thanks to my dad.

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In older days when people have more patience and respect for a fellow human being, they used to stop or slow down when one sees an elderly person crossing the road. The poor elderly person probably still expects the same but the world has changed radically and no-one even care to stop for anyone.


BTW, my post was not just about kids but about other near and dear one's too. Let me be more specific now. May be it's your father/mother/sister/brother/GF or anyone close who got hit by a speeding car. May be it was part negligence by the person who got hit and part negligence by the driver. But would you still then make the same comment that the driver was being made a scapegoat for killing your girlfriend for her negligence? Sorry that my words are very harsh and I pray nothing such happens to anyone out here but sometimes hard words may bring the point home.
It would be unfortunate if that happens. But roads, esp. at peak hours are almost like a war zone. I always drive with this attitude. Now if the negligence was on the part of my near and dear one, as you mentioned, baying for the auto rider's blood is not going to change anything. Even my mom used to whine about how difficult it is to cross the roads in the evenings. In the past, she has even been brushed and mildly bruised by everything from bicycles to buses. I just showed her a film (I guess in Lebanon or somewhere) where people had to cross the road by keeping bullets in mind, not buses. I told her, just imagine how infinitely easier it is to cross keeping those huge, slow, noisy, contraptions called buses in mind, compared to bullets. Every time she whined, I reminded her this, and it has brought an attitude shift...

I once again emphasize to all those siding with kids and elderly people - you are good people with nice and pious thoughts; but unfortunately the laws of physics is completely impartial. You cannot come to a dead stop if someone just materializes in front of you, however careful you are, unless you are moving at a snail's speed, which is completely impractical. And I repeat, I am NOT talking about negligent driving. Negligence and fault is not the sole prerogative of the motorist. Kids to elderly and everyone in between is perfectly capable of it, and has to pay the price for it.
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Old 30th September 2009, 16:41   #64
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Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
You cannot come to a dead stop if someone just materializes in front of you, however careful you are, unless you are moving at a snail's speed, which is completely impractical. And I repeat, I am NOT talking about negligent driving. Negligence and fault is not the sole prerogative of the motorist.
I have to agree with this. Even i've faced an situation where someone just rushed out from between 2 parked buses at the side of the road and right into my car that was just passing those buses. I slammed on the brakes, but still knocked him over.

The lesson I learnt is that in such situations while pedestrians are at fault, it is ultimately them who suffer injury. The best that vehicle drivers can do is to drive vigilantly and keep an extra careful watch on pedestrians when in crowded/residential places.

Alertness and anticipating such an occurence is the best thing to avoid accidents whether with other cars or with pedestrians. Sometimes though even that does not prevent it.
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Old 30th September 2009, 17:47   #65
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Originally Posted by gomzi View Post
i've faced an situation where someone just rushed out from between 2 parked buses at the side of the road and right into my car that was just passing those buses. I slammed on the brakes, but still knocked him over.
Yes this as happened to me on quite a few occasions and I have missed them by a whisker initially. Now I reduce speed and go all horns blaring.
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Old 3rd October 2009, 14:27   #66
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Our whole education system is to be blamed. Especially the one at home, because simple road crossing instructions are taught to children as early as in Pre school and needs to be drilled in continuosly. Most Indians have teriible Civic sense.

I just dont get it as to how can so many people feel like superman and superwoman and not be scared of getting knocked down by vehicles.

I guess all motorvehicles should have air horns fitted as OEM's. LOL.
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Old 3rd October 2009, 16:34   #67
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Car drivers will always blame pedestrians; and vice -versa. This does not a justification, but it is simply the situation as it is today.
How many drivers stop their cars before the zebra crossing at signals?
How many pedestrians follow the signals while crossing the road?
To both questions: very few.

In mumbai, there is now a fine for jay walking. Has it worked across the city? No way.
In India, the roads are as unfriendly to pedestrians as they are to motorists. Footpaths are basically mobile restaurants or begging stops. So the hapless pedestrian has to walk on the road.
Car owners tend to believe "OWN a CAR...OWN the ROAD"; so why to stop for signals? On this same line of thought, the pedestrian thinks "hey! Drivers are anyway going to break the law; so why the hell should I cross the road at the signal; I may as well cross where I please!"
The Unfortunate Truth is that the LAW has not changed with the times and neither has the Government.
There aren't enough Laws to protect Car Owners in these situations and SADLY, there aren't enough Car owners to follow the existing laws to begin with.
How easy is it to get a license in India? Ridiculously so.

As i see it, there is only 1 solution and it is in our hands only:
Instill Self Discipline and Civic Sense - in ourselves to begin with, as a Pedestrian and as a Responsible Car Owner.
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Old 4th October 2009, 16:45   #68
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Haven't read the long thread completely.

Just wanted to mention a point or too about Delhi traffic.

Very close to my home is a place called Srinagar near the Ring Road. Now the road here is pretty wide. Wide enough to accommodate 4-5 cars width-wise on each side easily. The people who live here are a segment above slum-dwellers.
Now the wonderful part about this otherwise innocuous place is that people stand in the bushes along the divider and jump in front of cars on purpose to extract money from the drivers.
When someone succeeds, they all gang up against the driver and force him to pay.
Having seen this myself, I limit my driving to the middle lane when on this road.

Our rules are flawed, they no longer cover the whole ambit of situations on the road. With only a few signals having proper zebra crossings, I wonder how people are supposed to cross the road.

One of the signals right out of my colony has people parking their cars on the elevated footpath. The cherry on the top are the two wheelers who decide to climb up the footpath to beat the jam. I remember whacking 2-3 on the head when they almost ran into me on the footpath.

Drivers need to learn etiquettes fast and the law needs to catch up sooner.

Last edited by EssYouWe : 4th October 2009 at 16:47.
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Old 4th October 2009, 23:39   #69
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Originally Posted by anainar View Post
Anyway, jaywalking in a highway should be a punishable offence. Tracks are for trains and if some one is hit by a train, the driver is not held accountable. This may hold good for Highways which are supposed to be the territory of motor vehicles, but near schools, urban roads have to be shared and I dont think if speed limits are followed and driven defensively, a motor car/bike cannot stop if the driver wants to or alert enough. Defensive Driving is the key.

True. But then what about those people who just walk right through when the signal is green for cars, talking on their mobile phones and not even bothering to look in the right direction while crossing. Though defensive driving is the key, I dont think its right to hold the driver entirely responsible every time.
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Old 5th October 2009, 15:38   #70
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
the bigger/ more expensive the vehicle, the more likely its driver will get the blame
A school bus is parked on the road during the night (By road, I mean it's a 4 road one side) a bike hits the bus, Police register cases against the bus driver for parking the bus on the road. I could never understand why the Law and order mechanism does not like to act before it's too late

A similar incident -- A Triple rider bike travels on way on Punjagutta - Begumpet flyover and on a blind turn an Indicab hits the bike and police register case against the indicab driver for rash and negligent driving. Can you beat that .

Last edited by Cyberdoctorind : 5th October 2009 at 15:39.
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Old 5th October 2009, 15:45   #71
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Originally Posted by Cyberdoctorind View Post

A similar incident -- A Triple rider bike travels on way on Punjagutta - Begumpet flyover and on a blind turn an Indicab hits the bike and police register case against the indicab driver for rash and negligent driving. Can you beat that .
Are you referring to this accident.
The Hindu : Front Page : Two techies killed in ghastly accident

Quote:
In a spine-chilling accident, two software engineers, triple riding on a bike were killed when a cab collided head on even as they were taking a ‘U’ turn on the wrong route on the uni-directional Punjagutta flyover on Saturday midnight.
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Old 5th October 2009, 15:57   #72
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Yes Precisely. I have heard that it was a blind spot from someone but your post confirms it to be a U' turn
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Old 5th October 2009, 20:50   #73
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Why do we fail to differentiate between implicated drivers who have broken rules and those who haven't?

Afaik the cab driver was already speeding.
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Old 5th October 2009, 21:22   #74
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Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post
Afaik the cab driver was already speeding.
I drive on this flyover on a fairly regular basis.
It is usually clear of traffic. The road divider starts almost 1/2 a km before the flyover.
The road is really wide. There are no lane marking on the road. If you stay on the right most extreme then there is no stop between you and getting to the flyover.
Very very rare to spot pedestrians at that particular place.
They usually cross under the flyover.
On the right hand side of the road is the late CM's (YSR) camp office.
On the left hand side is the ITC hotel.
Both of them do not have any pedestrian traffic crossing between each other.

My speed is usually at least 60kmph.

At that speed, and if I am already on the flyover. I don't know how I will be able to avoid crashing into a two wheeler that decides to take a U-Turn.
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Old 5th October 2009, 23:43   #75
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Got your point.

Our road rules, the CMVR, and a lot of other things need some desperate overhauling. Hope it happens during our lifetime at least.

And I was trying to make a general point, albeit incorrectly quoting a specific case. My apologies.
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