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Old 20th July 2010, 23:04   #1711
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Originally Posted by sabynag View Post
We are again falling in the same trap - just like infrastructure can't cure India's driving chaos, stringent rules can't ensure better law enforcement.

Making rules and following/enforcing them are two completely different things. If you want to formulate a good solution, try in the lines of how to get people to obey the exisiting rules, how to make best use of the existing infrastrucutre and so on.

.... or, you can start with this : How to get 10 Indians to work as a team without any team leader / manager monitoring their activities.
I suggested 2 steps process for existing rules
1. education drive
2. strict enforcement once educated. As i mentioned, people holding license must go through a test, and its not too complicated to ensure all know- if you violate, you will be fined, and strictly.
why does a guy jump the signal seeing no cop standing across and the SAME guy will stop once he sees a cop? Our pschye is messed up- we only act when someone enforces, self discipline is non existant almost. Guess all this is futile unless followed up with action, for which who has the time and energy when those who should are sleeping. Since i really cannot take action to back up my ideas, its better not to expect a lot and learn to do 2 things- be a good citizen myself and ignore the "animals"

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Old 20th July 2010, 23:16   #1712
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Here is a quiz :

There are two queues A and B of equal length. Queue A formed by only Indians while queue B has no Indian. Which queue has more people ?
Answer: A
Reason: The people in the 'A' queue will be accommodating their relatives, friends and aquaintances w/o caring 2 hoots about other's time.

I am not kidding, I used to stand at Pune railway station ticket counter which used to move forward only if a hawaldaar gives a tight rap to the ticket pimps trying to crowd the window.
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Old 21st July 2010, 11:12   #1713
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How about organising a TBHP campaign to improve road sense/awareness.. ?
There have been several such campaigns from traffic police, NGO etc. in several cities across India and this initiatives keep recurring but with no visible outcome.

The problem is that we try to educate people on road senses when they don't have civic senses. You can't expect road discipline from a fundamentally indisciplined person.

If you seriously want to bring in traffic discipline, road is not the place for you. You need to go and teach the little ones at home and at school as they grow up. Please remember that you can't teach these "senses" to anyone over 18 years of age. You need to catch your target audience at much younger age. Another important aspect is that there is no point in such campaign if it doesn't have a wide coverage. If you teach 20% of Indian population to be disciplined and you are successful in that , you are creating an "easy prey" base for the rest of the Indians. These disciplined section of people will be treated the same way we treat unsuspecting foreigners in our country. Over a period of time, they will also realize that unless they change, they will continue to be milked. So, coverage is most important factor in any such initiative.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 21:34   #1714
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If you seriously want to bring in traffic discipline, road is not the place for you. You need to go and teach the little ones at home and at school as they grow up. Please remember that you can't teach these "senses" to anyone over 18 years of age. You need to catch your target audience at much younger age.
Before these kids reach school, they would've already got driving lessons from their dad / mom dropping them, school van / bus / auto etc.

Ever watched them enroute school? That's exactly what the kids WILL learn from their parents and that's exactly how the KID will ride / drive later.

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Old 23rd July 2010, 22:43   #1715
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Before these kids reach school, they would've already got driving lessons from their dad / mom dropping them, school van / bus / auto etc.

Ever watched them enroute school? That's exactly what the kids WILL learn from their parents and that's exactly how the KID will ride / drive later.

That not completely true, I traveled for school bus all my school life and by public bus for my 11th and 12th standard, i got a car when i turned 18, but I'm still the only one in my family who wears a seatbelt(even before team-BHP happened to me) and i'm in my final year of engineering now, and i believe i'm a responsible driver(i could be wrong) It's alot about personal attitude i think
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Old 23rd July 2010, 23:14   #1716
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Next time when government plans new public facilities, it should keep in mind, parking space, better facilities. Problem is every road is a down town road. We have to keep the old heritage sites as down town and keep the rest off the roads.
I am just wondering do ya really think parking areas will reduce our problem?
Eg: Last week i was passing by Woodys restrau in JP Nagar where new Bangalore Central also opened.Now the thing is when i passed that area i saw the whole road is covered with cars on both the sides. I am talking about the side lanes,not the main road. I parked my car in my wife's house,which is behind Woody's and walked towards Central. While coming back i just went near parking area to see whether parking is full or not. There were enough parking space but people dont park it there. I failed to understand the reason And trust me it really creates a nuisance for people who are staying in those area. When will these bloody MORONs understand? Guess till they learn it in a bad way,they wont. Sigh.

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Old 23rd July 2010, 23:40   #1717
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I am just wondering do ya really think parking areas will reduce our problem?
Generally, it will. People will have more space to drive on the road. Most people don't know that there is a parking facility around. So they park it on the roads. They will stop if cops tow vehicles.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 23:58   #1718
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That not completely true, I traveled for school bus all my school life and by public bus for my 11th and 12th standard, i got a car when i turned 18, but I'm still the only one in my family who wears a seatbelt(even before team-BHP happened to me) and i'm in my final year of engineering now, and i believe i'm a responsible driver(i could be wrong) It's alot about personal attitude i think
Yes, i too travelled by school bus.

I meant the kids are watching how their dad / mom are driving. So they're already getting a lesson. If they don't get a better lesson later, they might stick to their first lesson. You zig-zag in heavy traffic and your kid might think its ok to do that. You drive on the other side of the divider when everybody else's waiting, your kid might think its ok to do that.

That's all i wanted to convey.

(i replaced all "will" with "might")

-- Torqy
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Old 24th July 2010, 00:09   #1719
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Torqy, I completely agree with you. As parents and responsible citizens we need to follow and do the right thing.

I credit my traffic discipline to my Dad and my Uncle.
The rule is set. You follow the rule. You don't need someone behind you all the time to enforce it.

I try to abide by this principle at all times.
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Old 24th July 2010, 00:54   #1720
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How many times have you noticed the following drama in your city :

A traffic cop catches a violator. The first reaction of the culprit is that he is innocent - he didn't do it. If the cop can prove that he has indeed violatd the rule, the second line of defence would be that even though he has done it, someone else is actually responsible and he actually got victimized or he is one of many who violated the rule and it is unfair to catch only him. If that also doesn't work out, then the final line of defence would be to lower the punishment to minimum possible - mercy or bribe.

At every traffic junction, if you see a cop talking to a culprit, in most cases, the discussions follow the above line. This wastes valuable time for the cop who could have caught more culprits if these unnecessary discussions could have been avoided.

This is not only seen on the road, if you notice, you will find this behavior pattern in most cases where someone is caught by the system. Indians don't own up their mistakes. They always tend to deflect. Many US managers complain that the biggest problem they see with Indian employees is that they don't communicate bad news fast enough while they are very quick to give good news. Mgmt is more interested in hearing bad news faster but Indians are always scared of discussing goof-ups with higher ups.

This also is related to how we are brought up. Since childhood, we are encouraged (indirectly) to hide our mistakes and wrongdoings as there is no reward in confessing but there may be punishment. This pattern gets etched into our subconscious so deeply that life-long we can't own up any of our wrongdoings.
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Old 24th July 2010, 01:00   #1721
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How many times have you noticed the following drama in your city :

This wastes valuable time for the cop who could have caught more culprits if these unnecessary discussions could have been avoided.
Its him. He has all the time in the world. We don't. If the cop is damn certain that a rule has been violated then he will not listen to any of you. If he is faking something then it is correct to contest it.
6-7 cases everyday is enough for the day.
We will see a change when Government employees get IT types salaries.
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Old 24th July 2010, 14:21   #1722
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whatever said and done,my dad may not wear a seat belt and stuff, the one major rule i learnt from my dad is not to drive without a license.
This i learnt the hard way
way back in 2005, We had just bought a Hyundai Getz for my sister, and i wasn't 18 then, but i just wanted to learn how to drive, so she would teach me to park in the apartment, and go back and forth, One day, i decided that ill take it till the main gate of the complex. and she agreed, but that was actually the idea. and At the main gate, I made a typical learner's mistake, i didn't look on the left, and i turned towards the right, i ALMOST hit a hoysala jeep(thank god i didn't) and the cops in the car saw i was underage, and i was made to pay 900bucks! (the biggest fine ive paid till date) for underage driving, without license, and reckless(i almost hit a cop car!)
so when i told my dad, I got screwed, but my sister got more screwed than i did for giving me the car in the first place
his logic is simple-if you don't have a license, and you have an accident even when its not your fault, and the person dies under your car(it's possible, accidents don't happen on purpose) it'll be a non bailable offense, but if the same situation arises and you have a license, there will be consequences, but less drastic.
How do you argue with logic like that?
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Old 24th July 2010, 14:40   #1723
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Its him. He has all the time in the world. We don't. If the cop is damn certain that a rule has been violated then he will not listen to any of you. If he is faking something then it is correct to contest it.
6-7 cases everyday is enough for the day.
We will see a change when Government employees get IT types salaries.
For every bribe transaction, there is a donor and there is an acceptor. Both are equally corrupt and both gain from the transaction. That's how bribe works.
I disagree with the notion that traffic cops are more corrupt than the ones they deal with every day on the road.

There is no evidence that Indians will turn less corrupt if income levels are increased. Indians are corrupt irrespective of their income levels - open the newspaper on any day and you will see plenty of cases supporting this.

In case, there is any belief that IT employees are less corrupt :
1. A giant US-based MNC sacked several of its employees (mostly managers) in India center allegedly due to financial irregularities (corruption)
2. Our own Hyd-based IT company's case is known to everyone. People involved in that corruption were not drawing poor salary
3. Are you not aware that many IT employees fake bills for reimbursement ?
4. Look around and you will find plenty of such incidents involving IT employees at any level
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Old 24th July 2010, 20:14   #1724
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Originally Posted by Unknownsatan View Post
I am just wondering do ya really think parking areas will reduce our problem?
Eg: Last week i was passing by Woodys restrau in JP Nagar where new Bangalore Central also opened.Now the thing is when i passed that area i saw the whole road is covered with cars on both the sides. I am talking about the side lanes,not the main road. I parked my car in my wife's house,which is behind Woody's and walked towards Central. While coming back i just went near parking area to see whether parking is full or not. There were enough parking space but people dont park it there. I failed to understand the reason And trust me it really creates a nuisance for people who are staying in those area. When will these bloody MORONs understand? Guess till they learn it in a bad way,they wont. Sigh.
The road gets congested with cars parked on both sides. However, there is parking on one side of the road. So there is nothing wrong in parking cars there. Other side there is no parking. But I have seen cops in that area and possibly issuing tickets to the cars parked on the other side.


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Its him. He has all the time in the world. We don't. If the cop is damn certain that a rule has been violated then he will not listen to any of you. If he is faking something then it is correct to contest it.
Agreed. In my experience, if you are at fault they will just issue the ticket.
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Old 24th July 2010, 20:55   #1725
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There is no evidence that Indians will turn less corrupt if income levels are increased.
Actually there is. There was a drive in Pune where traffic cops were given perks for issuing tickets to violators. I that case the cops were happy and the violators were under check or scared to break rules at will.
I guess this was when Suresh Bhai Kalmadi was something in MH. When he moved to Delhi then its stopped all of a sudden.
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