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Old 3rd December 2015, 11:44   #10216
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Default Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by suresh_gs View Post
Mumbai (Bombay) moves on loco.
And that is something that I have always wondered. Rather than looking at creating a new transport system with all its logistical nightmares (the metro), or put more pressure on the already choked roads (new buses), wouldnt it be simpler to just build a service on top of the already existing infra of the railways.
It might be simpler and quicker in the short term to introduce suburban trains to run from existing stations in the city to Whitefield and Carmelaram to service ITPL and the ORR offices. Of course, it needs improved first / last mile connectivity in these places but that might be something that is an easier target to achieve than building new flyovers, Metro connectivity all over the city and laying roads that will last everyone a lifetime.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 11:49   #10217
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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post

Mumbai (if I get my history right), works in this fashion. The suburban services are the actual back-bone. The BEST services are more of feeders. .
Yes Mumbai has the local train as its backbone. But the roads are exceptionally wide (except some like saki vihar) and road traffic moves in a lot more orderly fashion. But even Mumbai has not implemented metro properly.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 12:21   #10218
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Back in bangalore, lethargy seems to be the order of the day.Instead of finding solutions as to how the roads can be decongested, they think of impractical idea like tunneled roads for this city.
Thinking from a devil's advocate stand point:-
1. How much ever we joke about, I don't think any politician in Bangalore (or for that matter, India) is actually a dumbo. A plain and simple dumbo just cannot survive in the Indian political scenario even for a few weeks. They all are quite smart, know how to influence people and know their own self worth and standing.
2. Keeping #1 in mind, I now tend to believe that as for Karnataka politicians the issues which gets highlighted mainly by the techies are of no value, or low value. The political class in Karnataka knows their vote bank and their priorities, and where the funds should go (and the benefits of the same).
3. Keeping #2 in mind, it would be quite natural for the politicians to ensure that they have a steady pipe line of income/revenue (through taxes, real estate etc.) which can be tapped and utilised for their pet schemes. The present government has repeatedly come up with schemes which are nothing but freebies benefiting specific communities. The money spent for such free loading schemes is what is actually given by the IT crowd :P.
4. The state level politicians knows that they require a large set of people who can give money, but can be safely ignored. Or just pampered by giving empty talks or some very petty comfort levels. All this talks about Metro or this tunnels having roads are just that. If some one believes all this, then it is at his own peril.
5. At present we have a)state government which has large sums of money at its disposal, b)a large set of migrant population who is the tap which gives good money inflow c)a group of land lords and other local war lords who were pretty much rich any ways, now given a good chance to get richer further and their social fabric and clout remaining intact d)a large set of state's own citizens who were any way not having a good life, given slightly better life styles but still can be influenced by people mentioned in point # c). So to be quite frank as a state Karnataka and its political class have made some pretty good/smart moves.

PS: The only problem I fore-see if their is a real estate crash or some disruptive technology comes up which makes an alternative for Bangalore to come up. But here again I feel the people who would be in firing line would be the banks (through loans becoming NPAs), and the lower rung of the society who would suddenly see that their fortunes have taken a hit. But still the gangs, communities, politicians who held sway even before the IT set its foot in Karnataka would still retain all their power.

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Originally Posted by nambiarshreyas
wouldnt it be simpler to just build a service on top of the already existing infra of the railways.
It might be simpler and quicker in the short term to introduce suburban trains to run from existing stations in the city to Whitefield and Carmelaram to service ITPL and the ORR offices
It could have been done if that vision was existence right when IT started picking up. Perhaps at that point of time the state government's plan may have been to generate revenue by encouraging people to have more two wheelers and cars. The railways have always insisted that a suburban network for Bangalore has to be done on a cost sharing basis. No free stuff from the railways exclusively for Bangalore city. Now the problems have increased manifold.
1. Whitefield traffic problems: The railway line catering to this area is the Bangalore City-Bangarapet main line. Double tracks and electrified. On these two lines run all the express/mail trains which hits Bangalore City Railway station. In between these the passenger trains to Bangarapet etc. gets squeezed in. Thanks to all this further trains just shuttling between Bangalore City and Whitfield may not be possible. Or at the max one or two can be run, but it cannot be run as frequently as in Mumbai (NOTE: Mumbai suburban network has four tracks, two exclusively for slow trains and two for fast locals+mail/express trains).
2. Electronics City: Nearest rail-head is Heelalige (a cute station, BTW - reminds me of some shown in movies) which is on the Bangalore-Hosur route. This line is non-electrified and single-line. The "through put" on this line would be very minimal. "Crossing" would be way too high. Trains have to be operated in such a way that all crossings or over-takes have to be timed precisely to happen at Carmelaram, Heelalige or Anekal Road. Carmelaram, Heelalige and Anekal Road does not have any pit lines, loop lines to hold back suburban trains. This line also is used heavily used for goods trains and good number of express trains. Commuter trains from Dharmapuri and Hosur also uses these lines.

So if a good suburban network has to be commissioned railways would have to make some good kms into double line (or even more). If more seamless train movements needs to happen, it may also have to electrify the entire region (to avoid loco changes etc.). There are also some tricky points especially between Bayyapanahalli and Bangalore East. This is where the cross-over happens, for trains coming from Hosur side to move to Yeshwantpur side, and trains coming from K.R Puram and City side also to change directions towards Yeshwantpur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitheeshsreeram
But even Mumbai has not implemented metro properly.
But Mumbai did have a good working suburban train network. Mumbai started thinking seriously of Metro mainly for the East-West connectivity (suburban trains already covered the North South- and the North East-South connectivity). I still feel they are more proactive.

Last edited by Eddy : 3rd December 2015 at 13:18. Reason: Merged
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Old 3rd December 2015, 13:30   #10219
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Default Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
So to be quite frank as a state Karnataka and its political class have made some pretty good/smart moves.
Of course, the politicians are smart and we all know that IT is not their vote bank and they don't care. However, money comes from IT. IT crowd may be powerless but the IT employers aren't. Sometime back, Narayana Murty, Kiran Mazumdar Shah flexed muscles to get things done. They have threatened to move out of Bangalore. Probably, it is time to do what Tatas did at Singur and tell the political class that they mean business? Isn't the traffic situation beginning to impact their business and reputation?
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Old 3rd December 2015, 13:37   #10220
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Default Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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However, money comes from IT. IT crowd may be powerless but the IT employers aren't. Sometime back, Narayana Murty, Kiran Mazumdar Shah flexed muscles to get things done. They have threatened to move out of Bangalore.
Yes, a good example was how the Hosur Road elevated Road from Silk board junction to electronics city was taken up on priority and fast tracked to completion.
We need a similar movement and action for the Whitefield side soon - the metro is one of them but also widening of the ITPL main road is necessary for which even the markings on the walls of properties is already done but no action on the ground yet
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Old 3rd December 2015, 13:45   #10221
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Default Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Yes, a good example was how the Hosur Road elevated Road from Silk board junction to electronics city was taken up on priority and fast tracked to completion.
We need a similar movement and action for the Whitefield side soon - the metro is one of them but also widening of the ITPL main road is necessary for which even the markings on the walls of properties is already done but no action on the ground yet
If they ever consider the metro on ITPL main road at the current state, its better to totally shut the road down else it will just become a permanent bottleneck. They could just repair ALL the roads, close dug up stretches and widen wherever it is necessary. That will make a tremendous difference to the commute times.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 13:58   #10222
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Default Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
a cute station
I'd call it a beautiful station. The tree cover around it is absolutely amazing.

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
Carmelaram, Heelalige and Anekal Road does not have any pit lines, loop lines to hold back suburban trains.
All the three stations have a loop line. No pit lines for sure.

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
This line also is used heavily used for goods trains and good number of express trains.
With a total of 26 trains operating in a span of 24 hours, the line is actually under utilized. Freight is no more than a couple a day.

The saving grace is the timing of the local passenger trains. They align very well with regular work hours, that is 9-5. My wife used this service when she used to work at EC. The total journey time was still a shade over an hour but much better than her cab trip. The problem was last mile connectivity. From home and back from Banaswadi station was the usual loot with the auto guys. I used to pick her up in the evenings. Then going from Heelalige to EC and back. Luckily, she was in a group, with other colleagues and they arranged a cab for the pick up and drop at Heelalige. The bmtc bus service is a hit or miss.

If they really wanted, SWR could have taken up electrification up to Hosur. Similar to what they planned from Yeswantapur to Tumkur but this is far from complete and progress is nil. The line doubling, electric traction work for the second line between Yeswantapur, Yelanhanka and Chennasandra has also stalled. I don't know why.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 3rd December 2015 at 14:06.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 14:11   #10223
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Default Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by chakri400
IT crowd may be powerless but the IT employers aren't. Sometime back, Narayana Murty, Kiran Mazumdar Shah flexed muscles to get things done. They have threatened to move out of Bangalore.
I don't want to mix politics out here, so would just add one statement. With the current government and the political setup; both these folks would NOT make any move which would cause problems to the government. That being said, IT employers also may only get putting pressure if they really feel that their employees are suffering (and they in turn are losing revenue). IT employees as I see do not have much clout within the very companies they work, and exert pressure on the management (to pressurise the government). I know some companies have started focusing on Tier-II cities of other states, but even that is more like a back up move (and not to pressurise any one).

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan
All the three stations have a loop line. No pit lines for sure.
"Loop lines", in the correct definition used by railways . What I meant to say is that, there are no loop lines or sidings where a train which is not about to leave soon can be stabled. Carmelaram, Heelalige and Anekal Road have loop lines which helps in crossing/over-takes. But if a new train has to start from some where (and wait there, till it starts based on the time table) it has to be on Hosur RS.

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With a total of 26 trains operating in a span of 24 hours, the line is actually under utilized. Freight is no more than a couple a day.
To be honest, I have not checked the trains which operate regularly on this route. So the next question would be to identify the vacant slots in which commuter trains can be run. And naturally the railways would check on the viability. No point in running commuter trains at non-peak times, if the patronage is less.

Quote:
Then going from Heelalige to EC and back. Luckily, she was in a group, with other colleagues and they arranged a cab for the pick up and drop at Heelalige. The bmtc bus service is a hit or miss.
I don't know which industry your wife works, and which department. The train is an excellent way provided that you can leave exactly at certain times. So this may work in jobs where for majority of the time leaving right on time is the norm (and your own fellow colleagues would not bitch about you, for doing that). Need to see in the IT crowd how many have such a privilege. My understanding is that from Heelalige there is only one train (leaving at 1815 or 1830) towards Banaswadi. If that is missed, then no other train options available for quite some time. You rightly, said. BMTC services beyond Chandapura to Heelalige etc. is really pathetic. For last six months I commute using BMTC, and only thing which helped me do this is; being an individual contributor, not part of a large team and most of the work can be done from office or home. To be frank, one of my small dreams was to commute by bus, being part of the general public, watch the surroundings, get down at a small bus stop at the evening, wave hands to the friendly shop keepers (if time permits go to the nearest permit room ) and slowly walk home.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 14:18   #10224
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Default Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
If they really wanted, SWR could have taken up electrification up to Hosur. Similar to what they planned from Yeswantapur to Tumkur but this is far from complete and progress is nil. The line doubling, electric traction work for the second line between Yeswantapur, Yelanhanka and Chennasandra has also stalled. I don't know why.
I think the most productive line would be : Heelige to Banaswadi/Yashwantpur. Carmelaram most probably would be underutilized. But Belandur can be if the local traffic eco-system can be built. I think that part not a big deal. It can very easyily mushroom up on its own. The state however needs to monitor that growth.

The other part, they need two more stations on that route. One close to Ramamurthy Nagar (which would give proximity to Byappanhalli Metro) and one close to Lumbini Gardens/Manyata.

Last edited by ampere : 3rd December 2015 at 14:26.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 14:19   #10225
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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post

"Loop lines", in the correct definition used by railways . What I meant to say is that, there are no loop lines or sidings where a train which is not about to leave soon can be stabled. Carmelaram, Heelalige and Anekal Road have loop lines which helps in crossing/over-takes.
- In Railway terminology -

Main line - line which passes through the station and is used for through trains, without having to reduce speed.

Loop lines - Lines that branch off the main line on one end of the station and rejoin at the other end and are used for crossings / overtakes. Sometime even through trains are sent via loop lines, but will have to reduce speed to 15 kmph till they rejoin the main line

Siding - Lines that branch off the main line / loop lines and terminate at a dead end or lead to a loading dock / business establishment (like cement factories)

How do I know - Worked for the Railways over a decade, before quitting and switching over to another profession

Last edited by PatchyBoy : 3rd December 2015 at 14:28.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 14:20   #10226
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Default Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
2. Keeping #1 in mind, I now tend to believe that as for Karnataka politicians the issues which gets highlighted mainly by the techies are of no value, or low value. The political class in Karnataka knows their vote bank and their priorities, and where the funds should go (and the benefits of the same).
Yes, the former CM, who planned to make Bangalore as Singapore, was voted out of power. That has set a bad precedent since 2003.
Quote:
It could have been done if that vision was existence right when IT started picking up.
Many things could have been done. But Govt/BBMP have failed to counter and solve the new challenges. For instance, Silkboard junction started showing signs of degeneration in 2005. So far nothing has been done and silk board has entered traffic folklore.
Quote:
1. Whitefield traffic problems:
The main exit points for Whitefield are 2, via Hoodi-Tin Factory and via Graphite-Marathhalli. both are choked. Somebody (either here or FB) suggested 2 simple solution but requires effort on the Govt/BBMP:

1) Aerial distance between Graphite signal & ORR near Alpine Eco is just 1.5KM. All that is required is overhead 4 lane 1.5KM road connecting Graphite to ORR. Cost would be 10 to 15 crores. This will directly send the traffic to ORR, decongesting the internal roads.
2) Internal road from Ginger Hotel near iGate to Cosmos, via Kalyani Tech park. This will reduce the traffic stress at Graphite.
These require 'will' to do.

The ORR is showing its strains. There is proposal for Silkboard-Hebbal elevated roadway. If the Govt/BBMP were proactive, the work would be on now. But now it is just a proposal.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 14:30   #10227
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Default Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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To be honest, I have not checked the trains which operate regularly on this route. So the next question would be to identify the vacant slots in which commuter trains can be run. And naturally the railways would check on the viability. No point in running commuter trains at non-peak times, if the patronage is less.
here is a snapshot of timings at Karmelaram that I had saved for some other purpose earlier. If you see the available trains are already bunched in the morning 5-9 and evening 5-9 slot.

Name:  traintimings.jpg
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I think the most productive line would be : Heelige to Banaswadi/Yashwantpur. Carmelaram most probably would be underutilized. But Belandur can be if the local traffic eco-system can be built. I think that part not a big deal. It can very easy mushroom up on its own. The state however needs to monitor that growth.

The other part, they need two more station on that route. One close to Ramamurthy Nagar (which would give proximity to Byappanhalli Metro) and one close to Lumbini Gardens/Manyata.
Carmelaram is within walking distance of Sarjapur Main Road. Considering the number of apartments coming up in the area and also the new tech park right next to the rail track just before the station, Carmelaram can be a key link in a suburban system.

But as you said, more stations are needed. Currently although there are some trains, the lack of stations make it pretty much useless. In addition to above, I think if there is a station near Marathahalli bridge and/or at the point where the track crosses ORR (Near Alpine Eco), it may help increase the patronage from Carmelaram/Sarjapur Side and reduce load on ORR.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 14:30   #10228
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Default Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Is there an option to pay by cash after boarding the bus ?

What's the time taken from Arekere Gate to Mahadevapura ? Zipgo is certainly a good alternative to BMTC.

I stay close to Arekere gate, and there are hardly any direct BMTC buses to Silkboard. I have to change at Jayadeva flyover where I lose around 15 mins. Zipgo frequency looks far better. What are the problems you see with Zipgo ?
No you cannot pay by cash. You need an Android or iPhone to book through their APP. Easy to register.

Today morning took me 1 hour 30 minutes. Evenings are worst, takes minimum of 2 hours.

Issues I am facing:
1) Sometimes they cancel a trip abruptly. Once I reached the pickup point only to know that the trip was cancelled.
2) They keep changing the trip timings on daily basis, so its difficult to plan.
3) Evening the vehicle comes from ITPL, hence the accuracy of estimations provided by them is questionable. There are instances where vehicle arrived an hour late at my pick up point. Life saver is that they send out a message when the vehicle reaches two stops before. Also you can track the vehicle once it starts the trip from first stop.
4) Seat can be booked only 40 minutes before your pick up. In the evenings it gets tough as seats get picked up at first few locations leaving none at my stop.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 14:48   #10229
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Default Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
Carmelaram most probably would be underutilized. But Belandur can be if the local traffic eco-system can be built. I think that part not a big deal. It can very easily mushroom up on its own.
Absolutely. You will be surprised by the patronage for these passengers trains at small stations. Carmeleram serves residents of Sarjapur and is pretty busy during the arrival and departure for local and select express trains that stop.

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
Carmelaram, Heelalige and Anekal Road have loop lines which helps in crossing/over-takes.
While the ideal point to start a train on this line will be Hosur, the presence of a loop line at all intermediate stations and low line traffic, make it possible to hold the rake at any of these stations even if the duration is going to be long.

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
No point in running commuter trains at non-peak times, if the patronage is less.
Off course not. However; the railways need to add more coaches to the dmu services. 5-6 coaches isn't enough.

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
My understanding is that from Heelalige there is only one train (leaving at 1815 or 1830) towards Banaswadi. If that is missed, then no other train options available for quite some time.
In fact, there isn't any that stops at Heelalige after 1830, if you want to head back to the city. There is the return Karaikal passenger that goes to Bangalore East, at 1730 or so but a train best avoided. It is jam packed, poorly maintained rake and due to the distance of the total journey, is a complete mess on the inside. The less said about the state of the rest rooms, the better. Heck, the stench of it reaches the isle area and if you happen to be seated anywhere near it.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 15:07   #10230
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Default Re: Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation

The commuter rail for Bangalore was approved in 2014 railway budget. Unfortunately, no progress so far. This is the plan:
Rants on Bangalore's traffic situation-bangalore_suburban_rail_network1.png

Source: Bangalore Commuter Rail

There is lobby group for this - Namma Railu
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