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Old 27th December 2009, 22:38   #16
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Originally Posted by funkydevil View Post

He told me that in the event of a crash, if requested by the cops people from the dealership hook up some part of the car to a computer thereby telling them the way in which the car was driven during its last moments before an accident. It helps them prove a case.

This method would give you all the information such as speed, braking pressure used before impact, if airbag deployment actually failed or not etc. etc.

I dunno if its possible here, but if it is considering how prestigious a brand like Audi is it would definitely help in giving you a stronger case.
Audi being a VW brand VCDS info should be available. The dealer can hook up the VAG-COM and download the data for further analysis.
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Old 27th December 2009, 22:51   #17
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Real real bad situation. Though the imapct doesnt seem to suggest a 140 kmph collision as heck even the headlamp glass is intact. Plus it seems to be a pretty longish turn from the pictures but I hardly see any drag marks. Maybe the picture angle has obscured them. Plus it does look like a side impact and maybe one of the reasons why the airbage didnot deploy but then they are known not to even at full frontal impacts. What foxes me is why did the ABS didnot work. I am sure he would have slammed the brakes once he knew he was not going to make the turn.
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Old 27th December 2009, 23:25   #18
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
Tanveer, K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Where you have an open and shut case is this: Airbags didnt deploy.


Frankly, my opinion is this: No freaking way your cousin was doing 140kmph. If he was, he must have slowed down a LOT and I mean a LOT LOT before hitting that barricade.
Nikhil, I was thinking of going K.I.S.S. way but considering the minutest of details required it was done. I know I over-narrated but still you can see I'm being asked certain questions whose answers have been straight-forward in the narration.

Since the car first hit the divider that must have reduced the speed considerably prior to collision with the barricade. Moreover, the immediate breaks would've decreased the speed too. In the end, Airbags didn't work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkydevil View Post
I agree with nikhil here,

Now that you've mentioned facts about the linea, the point here is only about the speed you're cousin was doing, which according to the pictures of the damage is absolutely not possible at 140. Also looking at the pictures, Im not able to find any skid marks which makes me wanna ask, did you find any skid marks on the road or is there any proof that the wheels locked up? or did the brakes just fail altogether. (something which I highly doubt)

This method would give you all the information such as speed, braking pressure used before impact, if airbag deployment actually failed or not etc. etc.
Regarding skid marks, I'm not aware as I wasn't present there. I only got to know about it later in the day. Breaks failing is an extremely remote possibility. The case as I assume would've been that the car hit divider at somewhere around 140km/h and this de-accelerated and reduced the impact when it collided with the divider.

Regarding the method, lets see if Audi guys have a solution. Even if they have I think the results can be tampered with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oss View Post
Audi being a VW brand VCDS info should be available. The dealer can hook up the VAG-COM and download the data for further analysis.
Thanks OSS. I shall convey the same to my cousin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderernomad View Post
Real real bad situation. Though the imapct doesnt seem to suggest a 140 kmph collision as heck even the headlamp glass is intact. Plus it seems to be a pretty longish turn from the pictures but I hardly see any drag marks. Maybe the picture angle has obscured them. Plus it does look like a side impact and maybe one of the reasons why the airbage didnot deploy but then they are known not to even at full frontal impacts. What foxes me is why did the ABS didnot work. I am sure he would have slammed the brakes once he knew he was not going to make the turn.
Slamming the brakes is imperative in such cases. But as the car hit the divider first from the Passenger side, I suppose some precautionary measure such as the side Airbag should've been deployed or maybe front too.

Considering the blame game if the matter is taken up with Audi, should we contact them first through proper channels or take up the Airbag+ABS issue legally?
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Old 27th December 2009, 23:53   #19
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looking at the snaps, I dont thing that the damage is such, that Airbags should have been deployed. I may be wrong here but thats that what my knowledge about cars say.

We have cars with crumple zones as you may know. Its the front end module which has taken the entire impact here. If the impact would have been more, it would have gone to the drive train (the engine and suspension set up). It is the drive train which takes the impact there after. the airbag sensors in most cars are behind the powertrain setup. so its when the impact goes beyond the powertain and the engine moves bach hitting the wall, the air bags are deployed.

the snaps show damage to the front end module, i.e the front cross, the head light support assembly, the fender, may be the condensor, and radiator, the leg inside and the suspention link kit and arm and ofcourse the wheel.

I dont think that the impact has gone even till engine.

However, ABS not working is really surprising.
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Old 28th December 2009, 00:09   #20
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These are the pis of Tiger Woods' Cadillac after his accident. Somewhat extensive damage to the front, but airbags didnt deploy as it was below some 30 mph or something.

I am pretty sure that your cousin was below that threshold speed limit.
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Old 28th December 2009, 00:15   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk13 View Post
Considering the blame game if the matter is taken up with Audi, should we contact them first through proper channels or take up the Airbag+ABS issue legally?
Audi will easily be able to prove why airbags didnt open. However if you are able to show the skid marks, you may be able to prove the ABS failure. Try attach the ECU with the electronic device that the companies have and see the ABS codes. If the code shows an error, there may be problem with the ABS motor. Try to record it, if and when you do it.
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Old 28th December 2009, 00:35   #22
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As others already pointed out it does not seem like it was no way near to 140 KMPH during collision. From pictures it does not point to a skid, if it really so i doubt your cousin will have a better chance to win this case.

And what happened to the Chasers in Linea, did they just flee after accident?
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Old 28th December 2009, 01:56   #23
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Exact environment of the crash can be found in the crash data file, this file is found in the Airbag Control Module ( i think channel 15) which can be extracted using VAS 5052


One or more of the following Parameters will be recorded in the pre-cash data

Vehicle speed (in five one-second intervals preceding impact)
Engine speed (in five one-second intervals preceding impact)
Brake status (in five one-second intervals preceding impact)
Throttle position (in five one-second intervals preceding impact)
Driver's seat belt state (On/Off)
Passenger's airbag enabled or disabled state (On/Off)
Airbag Warning Lamp status (On/Off)
Time from vehicle impact to airbag deployment
Maximum Delta-V ( DV ) for near-deployment event
Delta-V ( DV ) vs. time for frontal airbag deployment event
Time from vehicle impact to time of maximum Delta-V ( DV )
Time between near-deploy and deploy event (if within 5 seconds)
Low tire pressure warning system status
Traction control status
Anti lock brake status
Transmission range
Service engine lamp status
Vehicle door 2/4 status open/closed
Outside air temperature
Passenger seat belt switch
Yaw rate
Lateral acceleration
Steering wheel angle
PDOF / Principal direction of force degrees


Get this crash data and you will get a clear picture of what really happened

Last edited by Kinetik : 28th December 2009 at 01:58.
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Old 28th December 2009, 06:37   #24
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No way it is a crash at 140 kmph. Max can be 40-50 kmph. The damage does not look that much to deploy the airbags. The ABS should have kicked in the moment the car started skidding, but from the pictures could not see any skid marks. It will be hard to win this case against Audi.

Last edited by BlackPearl : 28th December 2009 at 06:39.
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Old 28th December 2009, 07:14   #25
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Good to know that your cousin is safe!

From the pics it looks like the vehicle was taking a turn when it crashed. Was your cousin maneuvering the turn at 140kph????? I don't think even Audi can handle this turn at this speed!

And as pointed out by everyone else, the impact on the car is really really less if the car was actually at 140kph.

Don't get me wrong but, if the speed was actually 140 kph...
1. I would call it rash driving (even if someone tailing you is abusive).
2. You should be thankful to AUDI that the vehicle could absorb the impact... if it was any other car, crashing at that speed, it would have been really bad accident
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Old 28th December 2009, 09:31   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
No way it is a crash at 140 kmph. Max can be 40-50 kmph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vasanthn21 View Post
And as pointed out by everyone else, the impact on the car is really really less if the car was actually at 140kph.
A friend of mine crashed into a divider in his ikon at more than 110kms and the impact was less than this. So I can believe that the audi could have been around 140. What I guess is that the car would have hit the divider, slowed down a bit and then rammed into the Metro barricates. If it would have rammed a wall or a higher object, impact would have been more. Cars like Audi have excellent built quality as we know. Another accident which took place in an Audi on 25 december in Gurgaon, the car rammed into an i10 from driver side, the impact to the audi was much more because it rammed into a car than a divider in this incidence. The airbags deployed and every one in Audi were safe. Unfortunately, the driver in the i10 died on the spot and his wife is in a critical situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasanthn21 View Post
Don't get me wrong but, if the speed was actually 140 kph...
1. I would call it rash driving (even if someone tailing you is abusive).
2. You should be thankful to AUDI that the vehicle could absorb the impact... if it was any other car, crashing at that speed, it would have been really bad accident
Although, Gurgaon is a business hub, security is still a concern, especially at night. There have been incidents in past where people have been robbed or kidnapped. People have even been hijacked and taken to their places, where the entire gang of robbers rob the house and kill every one.

If I would have been in his place, I would have been doing more than that in my cedia, forget the A6.

Although, I agree that it would have been a fatal accident if it would have been a light car.

I just thank god that in this incident the guy didnt hit another vehicle or person.

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 28th December 2009 at 09:40.
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Old 28th December 2009, 09:49   #27
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As a reference this is the pic of another a6 crash in delhi,and it crashed at 130-135km\km\hr

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1652963-post4294.html
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Old 28th December 2009, 10:06   #28
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1: Airbags normally deplay at sppeds around 30-40 km/h

2: The car is repairable - impact speed was failry low. Also impact sensors are not on the corner of the car.

3: How do you know the ABS failed? It would not maike a difference in this case as your cousin went stright into the barracade. I see no tyre marks of the cars wheels locking up , let along braking hard. The ABS gets deployed when steering around an object or at the point when the wheels are about to lock up
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Old 28th December 2009, 10:17   #29
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If the car hit the divider first, I am guessing the tyre would have contact and burst if anywhere near speeds mentioned ?
Did that happen ? Or where did the impact with the divider happen before the car crashed into the barricade ?
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Old 28th December 2009, 10:18   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post

the snaps show damage to the front end module, i.e the front cross, the head light support assembly, the fender, may be the condensor, and radiator, the leg inside and the suspention link kit and arm and ofcourse the wheel.

I dont think that the impact has gone even till engine.

However, ABS not working is really surprising.
Gaurav, you're all correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
These are the pis of Tiger Woods' Cadillac after his accident. Somewhat extensive damage to the front, but airbags didnt deploy as it was below some 30 mph or something.

I am pretty sure that your cousin was below that threshold speed limit.
Nikhil, we may note that Audi is a sturdy car, so even a high speed collision can be absorbed well. The distance between the Divider and Barricade is unknown to me exactly but it's certainly more than 2 lanes. One probability can be that the car collided at high speed with the divider, de-accelerated before banging into the barricade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post
Audi will easily be able to prove why airbags didnt open. However if you are able to show the skid marks, you may be able to prove the ABS failure. Try attach the ECU with the electronic device that the companies have and see the ABS codes. If the code shows an error, there may be problem with the ABS motor. Try to record it, if and when you do it.
Thanks a lot Gaurav. Since the car is with them for repairs, I suppose everything would've been cleared by now including all errors.

The incident transpired 3 weeks ago, so no point in finding the skid marks now. I posted this thread now as I just finished with my exams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akas_chauhan View Post
As others already pointed out it does not seem like it was no way near to 140 KMPH during collision. From pictures it does not point to a skid, if it really so i doubt your cousin will have a better chance to win this case.

And what happened to the Chasers in Linea, did they just flee after accident?
They stopped by and since my cousin wasn't reacting, they though him to be unconscious or whatever and fled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinetik View Post
Exact environment of the crash can be found in the crash data file, this file is found in the Airbag Control Module ( i think channel 15) which can be extracted using VAS 5052


One or more of the following Parameters will be recorded in the pre-cash data

Vehicle speed (in five one-second intervals preceding impact)
Engine speed (in five one-second intervals preceding impact)
Brake status (in five one-second intervals preceding impact)
Throttle position (in five one-second intervals preceding impact)
Driver's seat belt state (On/Off)
Passenger's airbag enabled or disabled state (On/Off)
Airbag Warning Lamp status (On/Off)
Time from vehicle impact to airbag deployment
Maximum Delta-V ( DV ) for near-deployment event
Delta-V ( DV ) vs. time for frontal airbag deployment event
Time from vehicle impact to time of maximum Delta-V ( DV )
Time between near-deploy and deploy event (if within 5 seconds)
Low tire pressure warning system status
Traction control status
Anti lock brake status
Transmission range
Service engine lamp status
Vehicle door 2/4 status open/closed
Outside air temperature
Passenger seat belt switch
Yaw rate
Lateral acceleration
Steering wheel angle
PDOF / Principal direction of force degrees


Get this crash data and you will get a clear picture of what really happened
Kinetik, thanks a ton. I shall convey the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasanthn21 View Post
Good to know that your cousin is safe!

From the pics it looks like the vehicle was taking a turn when it crashed. Was your cousin maneuvering the turn at 140kph????? I don't think even Audi can handle this turn at this speed!

And as pointed out by everyone else, the impact on the car is really really less if the car was actually at 140kph.

Don't get me wrong but, if the speed was actually 140 kph...
1. I would call it rash driving (even if someone tailing you is abusive).
2. You should be thankful to AUDI that the vehicle could absorb the impact... if it was any other car, crashing at that speed, it would have been really bad accident
Whatever may be the reason, I agree to the fact that the car was being driven at a high speed. Since the car first hit the Divider from the right and this de-accelerated the vehicle before barging in the barricade on the left, the impact is less.

He wasn't taking a turn. The road in concern is known to be wide and straight but there is sharp cut on account of Metro construction. Since the construction site is for underground Metro, a lot of dust and smog are a common sight. No sane person will every try taking a cut at 140kmph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
No way it is a crash at 140 kmph. Max can be 40-50 kmph. The damage does not look that much to deploy the airbags. The ABS should have kicked in the moment the car started skidding, but from the pictures could not see any skid marks. It will be hard to win this case against Audi.
BlackPearl, refer to Gaurav's post below. Audi is a sturdy car, so a high speed collision's impact is ought to be absorbed well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post
A friend of mine crashed into a divider in his ikon at more than 110kms and the impact was less than this. So I can believe that the audi could have been around 140. What I guess is that the car would have hit the divider, slowed down a bit and then rammed into the Metro barricates. If it would have rammed a wall or a higher object, impact would have been more. Cars like Audi have excellent built quality as we know.


Although, Gurgaon is a business hub, security is still a concern, especially at night. There have been incidents in past where people have been robbed or kidnapped. People have even been hijacked and taken to their places, where the entire gang of robbers rob the house and kill every one.

If I would have been in his place, I would have been doing more than that in my cedia, forget the A6.

Although, I agree that it would have been a fatal accident if it would have been a light car.

I just thank god that in this incident the guy didnt hit another vehicle or person.
Well said Gaurav, the instance of your friend's Ikon collision surely answers the doubts being raised here. Your perception is apt and logical.

God help Gurgaon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
1: Airbags normally deplay at sppeds around 30-40 km/h

2: The car is repairable - impact speed was failry low. Also impact sensors are not on the corner of the car.

3: How do you know the ABS failed? It would not maike a difference in this case as your cousin went stright into the barracade. I see no tyre marks of the cars wheels locking up , let along braking hard. The ABS gets deployed when steering around an object or at the point when the wheels are about to lock up
1. Thanks for the input, the car was certainly doing more than that.

2. The car is being repaired. There is no damage to the engine but the suspension was badly damaged.

3. Ajmat, the car didn't hit the barricade first. There is a temporary sharp turn on account of Metro construction. On seeing that, my cousin braked. A6 hit a divider on the right and the car went on to collide with the barricade on the left. The distance is surely more than 2 lanes between the divider and the barricade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
If the car hit the divider first, I am guessing the tyre would have contact and burst if anywhere near speeds mentioned ?
Did that happen ? Or where did the impact with the divider happen before the car crashed into the barricade ?
Tyre burst, a sound probability. Let me confirm if the tyre burst took on collision with the barricade or prior to that.

The impact with the divider was on the driver's side.


Guys, the car didn't collide with the barricade at 140km/h. It first hit the divider on it's right and went on to collide with the barricade on the left. The collision with the divider must have de-accelerated the car and it went on to hit the barricade at a slower speed than 140km/h. Since my cousin hasn't viewed the thread, any discrepancies in my narration (if there) will surely be corrected. Whatever I have posted is true to the best of my knowledge.

Last edited by tsk13 : 28th December 2009 at 10:25.
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