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Old 8th July 2011, 15:39   #181
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Originally Posted by lordofgondor

I would beg to differ on this. Starting the engine with clutch pressed increases the life of the starter motor IMHO. This is because there is less load on the motor when the clutch is pressed. No increase in clutch life.
Ah right. I was confused.

Also engine braking reduces clutch life, right?
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Old 8th July 2011, 15:54   #182
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My wife is also one who drives car better than me! She is always cautious , looks on all sides , always gives way for cysclist, bikes, and ofcourse pedestrians. In the whole process , she may be taking slightly more time than others on road, but it helps. Had we have many more such drivers on the roads, Indian road would change for a much more better place to be ..as compared to the mad-mindset of people now with negligible respect for other fellow road users. Atleast the educated lot ( I dont mean the paper certified ones) should change for good now.
I am trying to adopt such 'high patience ' skills and also feeling better that you are able to control your mind, anger better than before. Should we all not adopt and try this as much a possible ?
Just my thought !! Cheers!
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Old 8th July 2011, 16:10   #183
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Ah right. I was confused.

Also engine braking reduces clutch life, right?
why it would? you do release the clutch after shifting down in engine braking!
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Old 8th July 2011, 16:14   #184
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Ah right. I was confused.

Also engine braking reduces clutch life, right?

No. Engine braking should not damage anything (unless you shift to first gear at 120KMPH). Clutch wear happens only if the friction plates rotate against each other rather than with each other.


As long as the clutch plates are completely engaged, there would be no damage to them.
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Old 8th July 2011, 16:24   #185
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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
I have a couple of questions which I hope can be clarified here. Normally I get conflicting responses for these:
- Gear change: Is it harmful if I skip a gear or two and change directly for example from 4th to 2nd or 4th to neutral? Somehow, if I brake suddenly and have to stop/ restart I subconsciously change from 3rd or 2nd to neutral
- Braking while stationary at signals: Is it advisable to use the handbrake or normal brakes; will excessive use of the latter impact the brake pads?
1. you can skip gears...just be cautious:

a. when shifting down, if your are in high rpm range(speed) don't change suddenly to 1st gear. so, first slow down and then shift down. example: i am going at 60kmph in 5th and i approach a turn which you should take in 2nd gear without pressing the clutch when turning, so what you do is that you use brake till you reached to let's say 30-40 and then shfit down to 2nd gear.(now on turn your car will be using engine braking.)
b. in shifting up you can also skip the gear when you have already raved the engine sufficent for the higher gear.(for example you are going in 3rd and have raved i.e. increased the rpm/speed enough for 5th gear, you cna change to 5th from 3rd.(just pay attention that your car shouldn't lug in that higher gear.)

2. use whichever brake you are comfortable with. if i want to relax on a long "red" traffic light i will use hand brake and give some rest to my legs. for short stops, i don't use hand brakes until unless i am on slop and going up!
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Old 8th July 2011, 16:29   #186
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Yes, that is what I intended to say.
How does that prolong the clutch life? Interesting to know that what I consider as a bad habit is actually beneficial!!
it's not bad habit..it's good. in fact, it should be like this by default that you can't start the engine without pressing clutch. i miss that in my car(most indian car doesn't have it.). Clutch life i don't know but it's sure good for safety reasons.

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No. Engine braking should not damage anything (unless you shift to first gear at 120KMPH).
I really feel like trying that out now.

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1. you can skip gears...just be cautious:

a. when shifting down, if your are in high rpm range(speed) don't change suddenly to 1st gear.
2. use whichever brake you are comfortable with. if i want to relax on a long "red" traffic light i will use hand brake and give some rest to my legs. for short stops, i don't use hand brakes until unless i am on slop and going up!
Thanks Suess, I usually move to the gear which the vehicle wont 'knock' in. I guess its a throwback to my old Hero Honda/ Zen days and I have been unable to shake off the habit. I thought 2 years of rare driving would have been enough time to forget it, but unfortunately it is too ingrained.
As an example, if I am going at 60 on the 4th and have to brake suddenly to 20 then I shift directly to 2nd.

For the braking, do any of you think it affects the brakes in any way if I use the usual ones (not the handbrake) for around 30 secs continuously at a time?

Last edited by Stratos : 8th July 2011 at 16:49.
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Old 8th July 2011, 16:38   #187
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No, I press the clutch while starting. Clutch use during braking seems ok; the only concern during braking is the gear shift pattern (skipping one or two gears or coming directly to Neutral)
I wouldn't recommand to go to Neutral when you are on road. shift down 2-1(engage 1st gear only when your car has stopped or crawling and you again want to start crusing but car is not able to go ahead in 2nd. when i want to use neutral(which i can't think of right now) i would use 1st gear with clutch pressed(that's equivalent neutral, isn't?).

Last edited by Suess : 8th July 2011 at 16:45.
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Old 8th July 2011, 16:41   #188
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I really feel like trying that our now.
Go ahead make our day.
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As an example, if I am going at 60 on the 4th and have to brake suddenly to 20 then I shift directly to 2nd.
Though not too often, I do that and that's the way it should be. In fact on the not so rare occasion of finding a well camouflaged pothole at high speeds, I will brake and adjust my gear according to the speed I want. So I think what you are doing is perfectly normal and correct.
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For the braking, do any of you think it affects the brakes in any way if I use the usual ones (not the handbrake) for around 30 secs continuously at a time?
Technically it shouldn't, unless you are trying to move ahead simultaneously. The worst I could think of is the pedal bearings, which should have a lot of life indeed.
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Old 8th July 2011, 16:42   #189
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Well on similar lines of safety reasons, I used to depress the clutch before starting the car during my initial driving days. Somehow I am not doing that now, but I have picked-up a new habbit of slotting the car in first gear and also using the hand brake while parking the car. But I make sure to get it back to neutral before starting the engine - but will still have the hand brake engaged.

Last edited by SuperSlick : 8th July 2011 at 16:48.
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Old 8th July 2011, 16:43   #190
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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
I really feel like trying that our now.



Thanks Suess, I usually move to the gear which the vehicle wont 'knock' in. I guess its a throwback to my old Hero Honda/ Zen days and I have been unable to shake off the habit. I thought 2 years of rare driving would have been enough time to forget it, but unfortunately it is too ingrained.
As an example, if I am going at 60 on the 4th and have to brake suddenly to 20 then I shift directly to 2nd.

For the braking, do any of you think it affects the brakes in any way if I use the usual ones (not the handbrake) for around 30 secs continuously at a time?
i don't think it would have any adverse effect if you use brakes for longer time (at least 30-60 seconds are not long, IMO). anyway you are using same brakes no matter which lever you use.
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Old 8th July 2011, 16:47   #191
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Default Re: Driving Guide : Rules, Tips, Etiquette & Common Mistakes To Avoid

All of us are stating our opinions. Anyone with technical info on whether it is helpful/not-affective/harmful to have the clutch pressed (as in, the pedal pressed) while starting?

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but I have picked-up a new habbit of slotting the car in first gear and also using the hand brake while parking the car. But I make sure to get it back to neutral before starting the engine - but will still have the hand brake engaged.
How did you park the car earlier?!
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Old 8th July 2011, 16:56   #192
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@libranof1987: I just used to park it with the hand brake engaged and the gear stick in neutral position - this was for parking the car on a leveled surface.

But when on an incline I always used to slot it in first gear with the hand brake if the car is on an upward slope. If the car was on a downward slope, I would slot the reverse gear along with the hand brake - this is just to avoid unnecessary pressure on the hand brake pins.

Current habit is to slot the car in first gear even on a level surface with the hand brake on.

Last edited by SuperSlick : 8th July 2011 at 17:02.
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Old 8th July 2011, 16:58   #193
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All of us are stating our opinions. Anyone with technical info on whether it is helpful/not-affective/harmful to have the clutch pressed (as in, the pedal pressed) while starting?



How did you park the car earlier?!
My opinion has formed because i have always driven cars(in germany) where you have to press clutch to start it. so, if it is harmful why Audi/BMW/VW would implement it!? it's effective and helpful in cases a. to avoid any jerk start
b. to avoid any accidental start by kids
c. to help you get out of parking mode into drving mode with minimum changes.(in europe parking means handbrake and gear engaged always, gear might be 1st or reverse depending on where you ahve parked, i.e. the slope of parking place if there is any).

Last edited by Suess : 8th July 2011 at 17:00.
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Old 8th July 2011, 17:07   #194
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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
No. Engine braking should not damage anything (unless you shift to first gear at 120KMPH). Clutch wear happens only if the friction plates rotate against each other rather than with each other.


As long as the clutch plates are completely engaged, there would be no damage to them.
If you are reducing your speed from 120 kmph in 4th gear by braking and downshift to 3rd at anything above 60kmph then you are using more than just brakes to slow down and then you are indeed wearing out the clutch faster than normal. The higher the speed at which you downshift, the more the stress on the engine as well as the clutch. In fact you can blow up your engine if you downshift too early.

If you downshift to 3rd once speed goes below 60, you are hardly using the engine to brake. So, thats not engine braking.

The above figures may vary a bit depending on engine size and power, but you get the idea.

Its not really a good idea to make engine braking a part and parcel of your regular driving. Its cheaper to replace the brake pads than the cost of putting extra stress on the engine.

Last edited by amitoj : 8th July 2011 at 17:11.
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Old 8th July 2011, 17:08   #195
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@libranof1987: I just used to park it with the hand brake engaged and the gear stick in neutral position - this was for parking the car on a leveled surface.

But when on an incline I always used to slot it in first gear with the hand brake if the car is on an upward slope. If the car was on a downward slope, I would slot the reverse gear along with the hand brake - this is just to avoid unnecessary pressure on the hand brake pins.

Current habit is to slot the car in first gear even on a level surface with the hand brake on.
Oh, having the gear slotted is always better while parking.

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My opinion has formed because i have always driven cars(in germany) where you have to press clutch to start it. so, if it is harmful why Audi/BMW/VW would implement it!? it's effective and helpful in cases a. to avoid any jerk start
b. to avoid any accidental start by kids
c. to help you get out of parking mode into drving mode with minimum changes.(in europe parking means handbrake and gear engaged always, gear might be 1st or reverse depending on where you ahve parked, i.e. the slope of parking place if there is any).
I know; it is, without doubt, "advisable" to press the clutch while starting.

selfdrive started this discussion asking if having the clutch pressed would have undesired effects eg. clutch wear and tear etc.; that is what I want to know from a technical standpoint.
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