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Old 22nd April 2012, 16:39   #61
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

We live in human society, therefore we are compelled/required to put human life above others.

But when you start putting animal life above human life, you are already on a slippery slope. How can you stop at dogs? What about rats, cockroaches, ants or insects? Do you also protest against pesticides? You can't draw a line once you are down this path. You can't take antibiotics either, think of the poor viruses and bacteria.

Surely none of you could be non-vegetarians, because you are encouraging deliberate killing of chickens, goats, pigs, cattle and sea animals.

I am not a vegetarian, so I would be a hypocrite if I say I animal life above human life.

I try not to run over animals as long as I can do it safely. That is driving common sense and also mentioned in driver's manuals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ driver's manual
Naturally, do everything possible to avoid hitting a small animal. However, in traffic, do not swerve from the lane to avoid hitting an animal. There is a better chance of surviving impact with an animal than impact with a vehicle.
See, it talks about human survival too.

Dogs often cross the road at the last moment, leaving no time to avoid. Try braking safely if you can, but don't swerve and cause a bigger accident.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 16:49   #62
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
But when you start putting animal life above human life, you are already on a slippery slope. How can you stop at dogs? What about rats, cockroaches, ants or insects? Do you also protest against pesticides? You can't draw a line once you are down this path. You can't take antibiotics either, think of the poor viruses and bacteria.
With all due respect thats a very extremist view I feel. No one is against killing/putting to sleep a rabid dog. In a similar way bacteria and viruses, insects and cockroaches cause diseases. Similarly millions of chickens are culled when they suspect an outbreak of bird flu. But saying that it might damage my car's fender and hence I prefer to run over a dog is not right, atleast thats how I feel.

Ofcourse that does not mean you go into emergency breaking and risk your own life and of others on road. But may be next time you ought to be slightly more in line with the legal speeds knowing the hazards of driving on Indian highways where any dog/cattle/human can dart across the road. One needs to be sure every second that they can stop in the shortest amount of time if a need arises to. But sadly many people I have come across are of the view that " kutta hi to hai and its the canine's fault" , which is inhumane at the least.

Thats how I feel and follow, others are free to form there own opinions.

Last edited by drmohitg : 22nd April 2012 at 16:51. Reason: typing error
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Old 22nd April 2012, 16:58   #63
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Originally Posted by drmohitg

You contradict yourself in your post. This is exactly what I was trying to point out earlier that we humans ( including myself) have become too selfish and do not value animals as worth living. When you encounter a dog you justify running over than braking/swaying in order to protect the guy behind you. When its a cattle you brake. Basically you are just trying to do what works best for you financially since the cow will cause a good amount of damage and the dog would not. So lets not say that you are more worried about the people behind.

I am not trying to target you or anything but we are all the same. We like playing God when ever we can.
Can't really compare hitting a dog and hitting a cow. Latter can mean a serious accident depending on the speed and type of the car. Most of the drivers will panic and will be forced to do evasive action which they wouldn't have done if it was a dog or cat.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 17:47   #64
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
With all due respect thats a very extremist view I feel.
Many here are openly putting animal life above human life, and mine is the very extreme view? No, I am only trying to bring some perspective.

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
But may be next time you ought to be slightly more in line with the legal speeds knowing the hazards of driving on Indian highways where any dog/cattle/human can dart across the road.
Are you under the mistaken assumption that dogs run only across fast moving cars? I have hit dogs (never fatally, I saw them walk away) three times so far, I was 80kmph(Baleno), 50kmph(Jeep) and 40kmph(GV). Each time, I had less than a second to react. Whenever I had more time to react, I have successfully avoided collision.
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When its a cattle you brake.
That is because cattle rarely dart across the road. About 80% of my driving happens on highways, and mostly on 2-lane roads. But I have never hit a cattle in my car. That is because they wander across slowly and give ample time to react.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 18:01   #65
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Many here are openly putting animal life above human life, and mine is the very extreme view? No, I am only trying to bring some perspective.
I do not buy the other view too and thats what I mentioned in my post above too that when you have to choose between the two its a no brainer.

Quote:
Are you under the mistaken assumption that dogs run only across fast moving cars? I have hit dogs (never fatally, I saw them walk away) three times so far, I was 80kmph(Baleno), 50kmph(Jeep) and 40kmph(GV). Each time, I had less than a second to react. Whenever I had more time to react, I have successfully avoided collision.
+1. Precisely my point. Be in the speed and you will always have time to brake and be in control of the situation. The result of the same being ( as you too mentioned):
1. Minimal damage to your car.
2. Minimal injury to the animal.
3. No chaos on the road for the people driving behind you.

Most fatal hits , to both dogs and humans, happen when we are driving on speeds well above the legal limits. A dog or a stray pedestrian may be at fault but do remember once you hit them its your fault, legally and otherwise. I am sure you would agree with that too.

Quote:
That is because cattle rarely dart across the road. About 80% of my driving happens on highways, and mostly on 2-lane roads. But I have never hit a cattle in my car. That is because they wander across slowly and give ample time to react.
That comment was made in context with another post. Do read the concerned post and you will see what I meant to convey.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 01:13   #66
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Dogs often cross the road at the last moment, leaving no time to avoid. Try braking safely if you can, but don't swerve and cause a bigger accident.
Won't comment on the other points, as that would involve too much typing at above legal speed limits.

But I'd take exception to the above belief. In my entire driving experience, I'v never encountered a single animal (except perhaps the human animal) who "cross the road at the last moment". I guess it can be better put as getting into the path of my vehicle. Looking at the animal, its always possible to say where it might go. Maybe thats why, ever since I began driving, I'v never harmed any animal while driving. Humans are an infinitely bigger menace than animals in this respect too. I'v seen countless people, esp. kids, gals/ladies and old men just dart right into the middle of some vehicle's path. Even dogs respond to honking, but often humans don't. Sigh...
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Old 23rd April 2012, 06:43   #67
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

Dogs are generally more careful than humans when crossing a road, unless they are in a pack and there is a fight going on among them. In that case, they wont be able to factor road traffic into the equation.
People are talking about not braking so that you dont get rear ended. But the other danger of trying to avoid a dog is that you may lose control of the vehicle while doing so and end up doing a lot more damage in terms of life (human as well as animal)

As for cattle, take a look at this thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...lo-qualis.html (End of a decade, a buffalo and a Qualis.)

Cows, buffaloes etc are also prone to getting spooked and darting into your path. Once they start moving, they can not change directions easily to avoid a vehicle.

In the end, on our roads, we should expect the unexpected, and when the unexpected happens, just pray that you make the right choices instinctively.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 09:28   #68
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

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Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
But I'd take exception to the above belief. In my entire driving experience, I'v never encountered a single animal (except perhaps the human animal) who "cross the road at the last moment". I guess it can be better put as getting into the path of my vehicle.
You should get out more. If you are regularly driving in 2-lane national highways that wind through villages, running into dogs and cattle is very common. I avoid at least 20 dogs & cattle a month, and I am not kidding about this number. Members who know my usual driving area will agree with me. And I have hit only 3 dogs & 2 birds in the last 7-8 years. Sorry, birds didn't make it. If only they were flying slowly.

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Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
Looking at the animal, its always possible to say where it might go.
Yeah, except you may have 0.4 second to avoid it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
Maybe thats why, ever since I began driving, I'v never harmed any animal while driving.
And you shall be proud of your record until you hit the first animal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
Humans are an infinitely bigger menace than animals in this respect too. I'v seen countless people, esp. kids, gals/ladies and old men just dart right into the middle of some vehicle's path. Even dogs respond to honking, but often humans don't. Sigh...
Looks like you mostly drive in cities.

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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Dogs are generally more careful than humans when crossing a road, unless they are in a pack and there is a fight going on among them. In that case, they wont be able to factor road traffic into the equation.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
I do not buy the other view too and thats what I mentioned in my post above too that when you have to choose between the two its a no brainer.

That comment was made in context with another post. Do read the concerned post and you will see what I meant to convey.
Ok, you confuse me. You are disagreeing with all the 3 camps now. The 3 camps being,

1) Save the dog at all cost.
2) Just run over the dog.
3) Try your best to save the dog, but not at human cost. (my camp)

If you really want an extreme view, checkout post#68.

Last edited by Samurai : 23rd April 2012 at 09:31.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 09:42   #69
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

The thing is like one of my friends said to me - suppose it is a choice between the dog's life and your life, which one would you choose?

Remember that old Akbar & Birbal story where they put a baby monkey in a shallow pond?
The mother monkey jumped in immediately to save her baby.
They then allowed the water level to rise in the pond and the mother monkey lifted the baby onto her shoulders and then head.
When it reached the point where the mother monkey was herself about to drown, with water reaching her nose etc, she dumped the baby and jumped to safety.
Of course as per the story someone jumped in and saved the baby monkey etc etc

But what it goes to show is however much one may hold other lives dear, at the ultimate moment at "Crunch time", one's instinct is always that of self preservation.

It must have taken an amazing amount of self control and selflessness for the Captain of the Titanic to try and save as many people as possible before going down with the ship!

I love dogs and all sorts animals and would never wantonly bump into one on the road or highway. Nor would I bump into a human being if avoidable.

But without being hypocritical, if it comes to my life and my family's life vis a vis any others, I would obviously act in my/ my family's own interest first. God forbid that this is put to the test.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 09:59   #70
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
3) Try your best to save the dog, but not at human cost. (my camp)
I am in this camp too. Only thing I want people to understand is that the dog/cat/pig is also a living being. They would not understand the modern chaos they have been put in, are blinded by the lights of your car in the night and so on. So request everyone to keep an eye for them and be considerate. I always slow down when I spot a dog in the city and till now haven't hit one. Ofcourse I agree there will be instances when you can't do that and in that case ofcourse you have to save human life/your life before the dog's.

Quote:
If you really want an extreme view, checkout post#68.
I am at a loss for words Sir. Seriously. Sincerely wish that there are less of these around.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 10:21   #71
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

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Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
But I'd take exception to the above belief. In my entire driving experience, I'v never encountered a single animal (except perhaps the human animal) who "cross the road at the last moment".
Dogs are normally very careful and calculative when it comes to crossing roads. But the moment they see another dog encroching in to their territory, they forget everything else and chasing the other dog only becomes sole intention. It is mostly in these situations they tend to appear from nowhere.
Similarly, a if dog is crossing a road under normal situation but all of a sudden it notices another dog, it can freeze right there taking the driver by surprise.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 15:58   #72
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

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Looks like you mostly drive in cities.
Nopes. I speak after driving extensively in both scenarios - cities and highways. And really, I'm not sure if chances are hitting a doggie (or any other animal) are any lesser in cities, esp. at night.

Quote:
Dogs are normally very careful and calculative when it comes to crossing roads. But the moment they see another dog encroching in to their territory, they forget everything else and chasing the other dog only becomes sole intention. It is mostly in these situations they tend to appear from nowhere.
Similarly, a if dog is crossing a road under normal situation but all of a sudden it notices another dog, it can freeze right there taking the driver by surprise.
This behavior and a lot else has been factored in the equation before I made the relevant statement. And despite it all, I'v remained unsuccessful at mowing down any quadruped with bikes or cars.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 16:52   #73
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

Interesting discussion, well when you drive its really marginal and split second decisions that our brain makes that prevents or causes accidents.

For example in my case this year, sudden crossing of a dog when driving on the highway at night, my split second decision of braking and avoiding the dog costed damage to the car (though not to anyone seated inside). So of course we would not harm an animal standing or seated on the road side like some phsyco but when it comes on a path of the vehicle we using then it’s a question of either the animals or our survivability.

On a lighter note, what I have learnt about dogs is that its usually in two minds whether to cross a road or not, so if we see a dog from far away and not sure if it will cross or not, I would say we should not honk, as 9 of 10 times honking causes a dog to panic and run helter skelter.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 17:27   #74
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

I had a near miss with a darting dog while driving to my hometown last weekend. Was around 10PM, was driving around 60-70 Kmph, suddenly I notice a German Shepherd running across the road. Guess the dog saw the car almost the same time I saw the dog. It froze for a second,however luckily continued with its run and escaped unhurt.
Another near miss incident was while me and my friend was driving to Masinagudi from Bangalore. We had just crossed over to TN and was accelarating after stopping at checkpost. It was around 7:30 PM or so and raining, suddenly saw some shadown emerging from left side, my friend who was driving breaked hard even before making out what the animal was. Found out it was a Sambar deer. Lucky for both party that it escaped, the animal would have sustained injuries, the car damaged heavily and legal issues of hitting a wild animal no joke.
One of my friends colleague hit and killed a deer while driving through Bandipur WWS, he has to go through court, pay fine and harrasment by forest officials.

Thankfully, till now all the dogs I ran over were already dead. Had one which can be called as close call when I ran over a dead dog and some part of it hit cars underbody while I was driving around 90Kmph in Bangalore- Chennai highway around midnight. Stopped, checked the body and thankfully nothing damaged.
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Old 24th April 2012, 09:36   #75
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Default re: Car vs Animals - What to do?

i had an incident while driving back to Bangalore on sunday night with my family.

i just crossed Kolar and heading towards bangalore, was doing a steady 110KMPH on the highway on the fast lane. suddenly from nowhere this dog came running at high speed and my mom sitting next to me shouted there is a dog and even i noticed the dog before i could do anything i hit the dog. Luckily i ddint loose control of the car.

i stopped the car because the car engine died and have to get the car towed.
Booked a cab and reached home safely.

i'm feeling bad about hitting a dog,but i'm also thinking nothing happened to my family that what i did was correct. what would have happened if i have swerved to right hitting the median(i dare think).
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