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Old 13th April 2010, 23:25   #31
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The proper way to divert traffic on to the other lane:

Bangalore Traffic Police - What's Wrong?-100_0347.jpg

You won't even realize that you're driving through the the opposite lane!

(Pic of Autobahn, Germany taken by me)

Last edited by clevermax : 13th April 2010 at 23:26.
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Old 14th April 2010, 10:29   #32
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Bangalore Police is understaffed.
Sometimes, cops try to solve the minor problems while ignoring bigger ones. What is the point in stopping a helmet-less biker and imposing a fine, when a tractor or a huge truck is occupying the rightmost lane, that too at those times of the day when heavy vehicles are banned from entering the city?

Moreover, this kind of vehicles don't have many functional lamps. Why can't they impose fine on these vehicles? And why stop only helmet-less bikers and not seatbelt-less car drivers?
Why can't the cops make sure that buses actually use bus bays (wherever available) and enter and exit based on first-in-first-out?

Recently, I also have seen some cops stopping bikers and inspecting their silencers. Are they looking for illegal aftermarket modifications?
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Old 14th April 2010, 10:42   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohanjf View Post
Sometimes, cops try to solve the minor problems while ignoring bigger ones.
I dont think we need to blame the cops for every other issue.

What about being self discipline? What about being a part of a civil society?

Is it too much to ask for?

Why drive on service lanes? Why not go that extra kilometer to take the U turn instead of protesting and blocking roads? Why ride on pavements?

Why do cops need to be there when the traffic signals are on?

Why not be a bit less selfish and look at the bigger picture.

If we can show a bit of maturity the cops will have more time to manage other issues that need their attention.

Instead they have to herd us cattle all day. We need to break this cattle mentality of ours.
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Old 14th April 2010, 10:55   #34
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
We need to break this cattle mentality of ours.
Perfectly said.
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Old 14th April 2010, 11:16   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohanjf View Post
Sometimes, cops try to solve the minor problems while ignoring bigger ones. What is the point in stopping a helmet-less biker and imposing a fine, when a tractor or a huge truck is occupying the rightmost lane, that too at those times of the day when heavy vehicles are banned from entering the city?

Moreover, this kind of vehicles don't have many functional lamps. Why can't they impose fine on these vehicles?
If the cops dare to take action against commercial vehicles for violations, we can be treated to strikes, and protests from their unions against being unfairly targetted. Anyone remember the move to install speed limiters on commercial vehicles? So, they play safe and make sure they pick the fruits that are there for the taking. The larger picture is anyway hazy, so they dont bother.
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Old 14th April 2010, 11:40   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohanjf View Post
I had a funny experience while returning from a friend's place one night. I was checked for drunken driving in 3 places:
3. Another cop stops me at Kundanahalli junction, and asks in sign language if I am drunk. I smile and say, "illa illa" (no no). He tells me to go, again in sign language.

I remember then, that I don't have car's insurance copy in the car. The cop comes to the window and says, "FIAT.. Hmmm.. Palio aa?".
I say, "houdu" (yes).
"Mileage eshtu?" (what's the mileage).
"17".
"aitu, hogi". (ok, go).

Whew.. Saved!!
Perfect! Made my day.

Anyway, when I was driving down to Chinnasamy staduim last Saturday for the RCB and KNR battle at a signal I noticed a biker w/o helmet right next to a cop. He was jutting his nose into the wrong lane before his green signal and was half on the oncoming lane. The cop was a few inches from his front tyre. He did not do anything. I was baffled.

There was a time in Pune when all of a sudden there was a huge difference in traffic discipline. I mean people used to carry papers, park properly, not jump signals etc.

The reason, they were given targets and perks revolved around the targets. They were found ticketing everyone for the slightest sin on the road. This was a time when there was not that much of a mess on Pune roads. This was some 10 years back.

I don't know what hell broke loose after that. Either the scheme stopped or people started bribing higher than the perks on offer.

So the point is if we have some kind of a scheme like this in Bangalore for a short time even, it can make a huge difference. When people come to know that their perks are not working anymore, they might abide by the rules. But, till then it is huge carrier trucks, outside vehicles they are interested in.
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Old 14th April 2010, 11:50   #37
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Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
The proper way to divert traffic on to the other lane:
That is long term diversion to facilitate construction/maintenance. Similar to what we have on highways under construction. What we are discussing here is temporary diversion to ease congestion on a lane of traffic when the opposite lane is relatively free.

@Spitfire: I can understand your frustration about the injustice in letting the vehicles behind you bypass and I would feel the same if I were in your situation. But, look at the bigger picture. You mentioned that there was a punctured bus on the road and traffic is building up behind it. What can a cop without a lot of power or resources (He is only an SI) do to clear the jam ASAP? His only aim at the moment is to avoid vehicles piling up and blocking the junctions behind. I don't see anything severely objectionable in what he did as long as it helped ease the congestion.
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Old 14th April 2010, 12:06   #38
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@Spitfire: I can understand your frustration about the injustice in letting the vehicles behind you bypass and I would feel the same if I were in your situation.
No not really. I felt like a dope standing there but was not frustrated. I leave quite early for office so if there are any issues I have a cushion of 15-20 mins even if I get stuck.

Quote:
But, look at the bigger picture. You mentioned that there was a punctured bus on the road and traffic is building up behind it.
I was wondering why no one saw that.

Quote:
What can a cop without a lot of power or resources (He is only an SI) do to clear the jam ASAP?
Letting vehicles go up the wrong side just because there is a bus broken down is not the best solution.

Please notice in the video, that they are effectively running both lanes. One is not blocked. So its a potential hazard. And the gap in the median where they were allowing the vehicles to get on the wrong side has a lot of traffic taking a U-turn there. This was being diverted further to the next U turn. So the congestion point moved to the rear. Forget the ones stuck - my position.

Quote:
I don't see anything severely objectionable in what he did as long as it helped ease the congestion.
Well its didnt help the congestion one bit. The Manipal signal was taking the burnt. And the opposite lane was congested beyond the Manipal signal right uptill Leela.

What should have been done was keep a cop about 10 ft behind the broken down bus and divert the traffic to the right most lane (herding cattle).

Keep the signal green on this junction and the Manipal junction in unison(use walkie talkies) so that the vehicles have a free run right uptil Domlur junction a good 2 kms away.

Last edited by Spitfire : 14th April 2010 at 12:08.
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Old 14th April 2010, 14:16   #39
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Well, that is what you think is the best solution. I am sure we'll get sizable number of alternative solutions including yours and the cops and each would have its own merits and demerits.

I think there are two issues here. First the action of the cop on duty and second the quality of training given to Bangalore Traffic police as a whole.

For the first issue, I think the SI did what he felt was right. In all likelihood he had access to more information about the situation than a victim such as you did and maybe his actions were conducive to easing the congestion although not every evident from the position you were in. My disagreement is in cynically attributing his action to ignorance, apathy or incompetence.

Coming to the second issue of training, it does leave a lot to be desired. Ideally, the traffic cops should be trained to handle all possible situations and NOT be expected to improvise on the spot. However, that is the case with ALL the public organizations in our country with the probable exception of the armed forces. We see security persons made to come up with solutions, small and big, on the spot every day. Think of 26/11 to Kandahar hijack to Carlton tower fire to a broken down bus on the road. There are no set protocols to handle emergencies. Everybody does what he thinks is the best at the moment.

Unfortunately, there are no indications of anything changing soon. Nor there is any motivation to change the way things are. So I guess we will just have get used to the reality.
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Old 14th April 2010, 14:54   #40
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Originally Posted by bullinb View Post
the cops and each would have its own merits and demerits.
The cops actions were against the traffic code itself. There was no emergency anywhere to come up with such a solution itself.

He was jeopardising the life of people here. He was totally in the wrong.

There is a school right on that road. Children and pedestrains cross each half of the road as per the traffic movement.

Understand that this was about a 700 meter long road. There was no policeman telling any of the pedestrains/children here that expect vehicles to suddenly come up the wrong road while you are crossing.

If I was one of them crossing the road. I can tell you with all honesty I could have been only been looking at the incoming traffic and not the other side. And probably get run over by this moronic cops action.

Quote:
First the action of the cop on duty and second the quality of training given to Bangalore Traffic police as a whole.
I think the training is of the highest order like seen in other states, I dont think it differs state wise. Its pure apathy towards their job.

Quote:
For the first issue, I think the SI did what he felt was right.
I think he was totally in the wrong. Period. If he was coming up with such a manuver he should have considered a lot of other things before taking such a risky and knee jerk reaction to one single lane being blocked by a bus.

Quote:
In all likelihood he had access to more information about the situation than a victim such as you did and maybe his actions were conducive to easing the congestion although not every evident from the position you were in.
I travel on this road everyday. And on this instance I was around from the place the jam started right uptil the cops had made it a bigger mess.

I have said so in the first post.

Quote:
My disagreement is in cynically attributing his action to ignorance, apathy or incompetence.
It was all of that. That cop is an hazard to a lot of lives because of his dimwitted reasoning.

Also to add. There is a hotel on this same road, which has a tanker parked on the same lane as the broken down bus but about a 100 ft behind quite regularly. The traffic is a mess then and so was it yesterday too.

But since the bus broke down and probably BMTC intimated the Traffic Police we see 3 Inspectors coming to handle traffic at one junction. But that tanker every other day is ignored.

I will try and get a video of that tanker. Next time I see it.
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Old 14th April 2010, 15:52   #41
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Well, you were the one at the location and you probably are right about this incidence.

Still I don't agree that the Bangalore traffic police is a useless lot. No doubt, there is a LOT of scope for improvement but given the mess the road infrastructure is, and ,in your own words, the "cattle mentality" of the road users, I think they are doing a decent enough job.

Please do remember that they are horribly understaffed and desperately in need of resources. If the grouse is about the government's callousness in equipping and manning the department adequately, I am completely with you. But, I do sympathize with those men on the ground who have to deal with this chaos on a daily basis.
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Old 14th April 2010, 17:00   #42
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well, i don't think i need to explain more.
Bangalore Traffic Police - What's Wrong?-challan.jpg

Having worked with the Hyderabad traffic cops for almost 6 months for a documentary, i noticed some thing that applies to all the traffic cops in India,

1. At their own traffic police station, they are not treated well, so all they need is a few good words to make their day. Remember a cop station is a government office and with people from all casts and creed posted there and eventually, there are numerous internal groups and politics played around.

2. Call them "Sir" and throw an innocent smile. They don't mind and even excuse you if you go to the extent of holding their chin while requesting. I did this, called him "uncle" and they let me go. Not once but thrice.

3. At first they might not care, since they are not used to such things, eventually they will surprisingly turn friendly.

4. Having a bossy look on your face is when they get pissed off. They are already bossed around enough at their home station.

5. Most of them have a soft corner for women, only when the lady is in a requesting mode. They move mountains to let her go. And when she is in arguing/abusing mode, they cant take it.

6. During diversions, alternate route changes etc, tell them that you are new to this area as you reside in the other side of the town and you are really confused driving here and if possible a gentle touch on their hand for help.

Traffic cops need 2 things.

1. Respect. (On streets, people fear a beat constable and no one cares a traffic cop. Some even throw abuses and use fowl language. believe me , i have caught this on tape)

2. Money. (traffic cops think, they work standing all day in the sun, amidst the pollution and horns and what not and still get paid less and not treated well)

And as usual, there are a lot of bad cops as well.

Regards,
krishna.
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Old 14th April 2010, 17:18   #43
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Today morning, at marenahalli road(from jayadeva hospital towards banashankari), near to Raghavendra swamy temple junction, a bus broke down in the right most lane, and the traffic was moving very slow. I was coming from BTM, and what I saw was around 5-6 traffic cops stopping some of the bikers and autowallas and fining them for not having helmets/documents, all this in between the blocked traffic, not even bothering to see why the traffic is getting clogged up.

And near the signal there was only one traffic police, trying to indicate people to bypass the broken down bus.

It took us around 10 min to cross the bus, and I could still see the traffic cops stopping the bikers.

Instead they would have controlled the traffic, by just manually indicating the approaching traffic, that there was an obstacle in the right most lane and to move towards the left lane(atleast having a couple of them at the spot would have done the job).
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Old 14th April 2010, 17:50   #44
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Instead they would have controlled the traffic, by just manually indicating the approaching traffic, that there was an obstacle in the right most lane and to move towards the left lane(atleast having a couple of them at the spot would have done the job).
A case of poor allocation of work? The constables may have been assigned targets to achieve, and are indifferent to the traffic block created by bus break down?

How do resource allocations to tasks work in traffic police system? How are emergencies handled? Who does decision making on unforeseen events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Keep the signal green on this junction and the Manipal junction in unison(use walkie talkies) so that the vehicles have a free run right uptil Domlur junction a good 2 kms away.
Co-ordination is clearly lacking. I have seen ambulances getting stuck, and the traffic police being indifferent about it. A better co-ordination across traffic signals would help in getting the ambulance across fast.
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Old 14th April 2010, 19:15   #45
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I agree. I felt like an idiot waiting there when people who were much behind in the line got to get past everyone else who were in the right.
If you find a Bolero waiting behind you without honking...that'll be me the other IDIOT.

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