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Old 23rd July 2010, 15:37   #31
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And let me mention this as well. There's someone up there who has made a note of your benevolence. To own up one's mistake requires a lot of courage. Then to face the hassles the police and judiciary create requires more courage. But a good deed never goes unpaid. Pray there's no such next time. But if it does happen, don't run. Yuo did great this time!
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Old 23rd July 2010, 15:43   #32
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Jay, you did the right thing. I would have done the same.

We all are well aware of these touts and the behaviour of the cops & doctors (who get paid out of our tax money). So, what I did was to get the phone no. of one of the local news channels and kept it handy.

I would co-operate as much as possible.Its only when things start going out of hands, I pick my phone to dial that SOS. The news channels generally jump at such information. I tried it once and it worked like wonder.

When the cops were trying to con you the next day, you could have called up the press from the spot. I am sure the cops would have taken a step back.

The power of the fourth estate scares everyone.

But all said, I pray for a speedy resolution. All the best.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 15:46   #33
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System and people are such that even people who have stopped to help have been accused of causing the problem and asked money from. It's crazy. Been thru one such incident, incl the FIR, panchanama, court appearance & a fine.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 16:03   #34
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We can sit, crib and blame the system but we always forget that system is made up of our very own people. There's one and only one solution to this - change of leadership.

Is anyone following the Amit Jethwa, an RTI activist, murder case? With leadership like this I sometimes wonder if we were better off ruled by British.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 17:14   #35
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Jay, I am really pained at seeing the trouble the cops are putting you in for want of some money themselves.

You did a good samaritan job by taking her and attending her troubles, ensuring that all is well with her and these guys are all out to extract money in any which way from you.

Can you get in touch with some people at Sansani (Star News) Or India TV - for the cops misguidance - not sure if they will cover, but no harm in trying, what if they cover and then the cops face is open and the case will be withdrawn.

I am really ashamed to see such cops everywhere in India. Something like this happened to me last Friday, will open a new thread for that.

Your case is all the more scary as you were starting from zero speed but still controlled it.

That drunk lady couldnt see a safari (with headlights on) and stood so close to it.

I seriously pray for you for the case to be thrown away in first hearing itself.

Have you appointed a lawyer for yourself ?
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Old 23rd July 2010, 19:02   #36
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Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
Well I beg to disagree. I did not create this system. I was born into it and am not here out of choice. Give me a choice and I can show you some magic. And since I dont want to join this system, I choose to live like a rebel, doing it my way, whether it fits into the system or not.
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When I said we, I meant people here in India - not neccesarily you. We (including you and I) are all born into this system, but I beg to differ when you suggest that you don't have a choice. We all do a choice - not of being born into this system, but certainly changing the way the system works.

E.g. When the water stops coming to your house, do you wait for the municipal corporation to fix it - or do you take matters into your own hands. If you did not get your salary - do you leave it to HR to figure out that you haven't been paid, or do you take matters in your own hand. God forbid, someone is ill in your family and the doctor is negligent, do you wait for the doctor to realize his mistake, or do you take matters in your own hand. However - when the entire country and the system is going down the drain and just being a rebel is not enough, do you take matters in your own hand? Well do you? If we are not the catalyst for change then who is?

Last edited by sirajbose : 23rd July 2010 at 19:04.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 19:11   #37
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Jay, you were just unlucky that cops were lurking around when this happened. My cousin brother was involved in a similar brush but got the woman treated and the husband got some cash and there was no Police compalint or antything. The man did not know who he was dealing with and did not show up ever later. You were plain unlucky to have cops. Crap happens man. Do your handle and move on bud! If that ain't beating the current system then what is ?

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Old 23rd July 2010, 19:43   #38
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sorry for the unfortunate incidence.

I believe these people will keep demanding money from you again and again, they are taking advantage of your nature and are counting on the fact that you would not go to court.

Instead of settling this in front of the police, you should consult a good lawyer and try to settle the matter in front of a judge or a magistrate. Once this is recorded in the court any future cases will be in your favour.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 20:16   #39
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Jay, it's really sad to go through such an ordeal.. all the best for your court appointment.

Reminds me of an incident ...

Couple of months back, on a Mumbai intersection my driver is waiting at the signal.The light goes green, he takes off and one street urchin runs across the road - hits the car with a big thud and is thrown off the road. My wife is the only passenger at the back seat and she wants to stop the car and help the injured while driver is eeling the car out of the place. I'm quoting my driver " Madam If you're keen I'll stop the car at the next corner, you please take a rick, go back and help him; and if someone asks say you are an NGO".

When I look back, he's right...

No harm in saving the injured; but save yourself first. The injured got 30 relatives in the form of havaldar/touts in no time, you on the contrary are all alone and vulnerable.

Forget everything else, you must be paying at least 15K in income tax alone each month, did you get any kind good treatment for that (at least) at the police station ? well.. welcome to India.

PS:Humble piece of advise, when you are getting a friend for help; call someone who can talk local, it really helps with the cops.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 21:45   #40
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Sirs, this is a third world country, and the way of confining(and expecting others) to a system is not practically applicable. Life is just better than it was in the cave and the jungles and so it is pointless to talk about roads.
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Old 23rd July 2010, 22:28   #41
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@Jay, It was very courageous of you to deal the whole situation in truthful manner. I don't know if I would have done the same or even have had courage to do whatever you did;I really admire your guts and integrity to deal with these things.

It is also important for you not loose your heart and remain the same good hearted what you have been. Getting apart from the lecture I would say you committed one mistake; somehow you should have done the blood test for the victim to prove she was drunk.

Secondly,checkout the insurance vehicle company liability and role in this whole matter.

Lastly, on the police. Its very easy to pass comments on these guys. Just think how many crooks we face in every aspects of our life. The Police system is also not an exception to it. Just give it a thought a Senoir Policeman as senior as ACP earns 17600/- max. per month (i know one who has been in services for 3 years and who voluntarily opted to serve Naxal Area like Gadhchiroli) just compare how much eachone of us earn as compared to the efforts these people put in. Also keep in mind they don't have the facilities like what army guys have like subsidised canteens or outlets for their daily living needs.

So, its best not to talk how the lowly police havaldars with minmal payouts manages his month. They live in some shabby place call police colony if provided by govt. and if they don't stay in police colony (which are often full) just think how they are going to afford rents and then carry out monthly expenses in such salaries; please understand I am not justifying corruption they participate in but these earning conditions are not conducive for them to keep morals intact and not get corrupted. Morals can remain intact when you are tested for a scenario in life which happnes once in a while but in this case this scenario is their everyday life.These people have zero family life, they don't have working hours, be it day or night or any immergency eg: its raining and traffic signals are not working these guys are out in whatever conditions and are managing the show. When everyone is enjoying or celebrating these guys are out on the roads away from their families and manning the atmosphere so that the situations do go out of control.

I am not saying that I have had good experience with Police guys but I reached this conclusion when I happened to visit the Chinese Police station when I was Nanjing. We complain everything against the kind of population we have to handle so cannot be compared with anyone else in the world but China is on par with us on the population but still the disparity in very clear. The Police station was just a bit short to a 5 Star Hotel (and I mean it). The kind facilties they get, their patrol vehicles cars/bikes etc., their starched ironed uniforms and respect/terror with what people look at them. The kind of life style they live etc. just a glance of it made me thinking of our police system who are treated like a peice of dirt by even the unworthy man.

Saying all this let me repeating again I don't justify their corruption or attitude which I can say a large percentage of people in Police system we have but again this percentage is not 100%

Anyway I feel the very same as Madhavan said in RDB something on similar lines "its not what system does it for you; its important for you to be in the system and what you do for it"; though its easy said than done.
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Old 24th July 2010, 00:41   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
It wouldn't be surprising if she puposely did it to extract some money on the spot, its another thing that it went into a wrong direction and not as per her plans. You couldnt see her but she could, Safari is not a a small vehicle even in the drk to miss.

Police is actually trying to make a quick buck by putting pressure on you and making cases against you by misleading the other party, its always better to get something in written from the other party for no claims later but in such circumstances one usually is in a different state of mind.
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Originally Posted by gurudutt View Post
I don't want to sound rude, but why feel sorry for someone who have no regards for their own life? Like someone pointed out, a safari is big enough to be noticed, moreover if she was in a inebriate condition and strolling our pathetic roads on a rainy night. Its quite clear she does not care of her own well being, let alone others.

What if this lady's adventure had resulted in a life threatening situations for others, if she was crazy enough to jaywalk a busy road? Someone on a bike may end up in a bad state trying to avoid her, someone driving a four wheeler too may end up in a nasty crash trying to avoid running over her (read: we are still humane not to run over someone and try to avoid it even if it means incurring damages to our beloved vehicles or ourselves).
Well the way our law works is that whoever gets hurt is the victim and the other party becomes the accused automatically regardless of whose fault it is. They call it "system".


Quote:
Originally Posted by TaureanBull View Post
Jay what is happening is not a hit and run case or car accident. Its a street trick to fleece people because they know that a common man would like to stay away from the legal problems. I wont be surprised if some policemen are hand in glove with them. I am sure she must have done that with a number of people.
I dont think her trick did her much good if it was a trick to fleece people. The doctor ensured her enough pain when he sutured her without anesthesia. And she is going to be in that bandage for a while, simply because they blew the money I gave them on booze. And lastly, Im sure the insurance wont pay anything either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MX6 View Post
I couldn't read beyond half way looking at how the govt doctors treated her more like she was a cadaver. Next time, please have a look at the blind spots. You were humane in a way that you didn't let her rot there like any normal hit and run case. Accidents happen, but please do have a look at blind spots.
Blind spots are exactly what they mean - blind. The Safari's thick A pillar and the pitch darkness and her black saree ensured that I couldnt see her, because I clearly first looked left and then right before moving. I would rather say that she was blinded because she was dead drunk.


Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
I think it was a combination of factors, based on Jay's opening lines. He'd stopped under the flyover to turn right & was checking out the traffic (on the left) just before moving out to join the stream of traffic on the highway. The woman would have already arrived on his right (while he was checking out traffic on his left) & it would have been but a split second between the point that Jay would have focussed back to his right & the vehicle moving (latter may have happened a fraction before).

Just a combination of factors made worse by the rain & poor visibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
Jay, you did the right thing. I would have done the same.

We all are well aware of these touts and the behaviour of the cops & doctors (who get paid out of our tax money). So, what I did was to get the phone no. of one of the local news channels and kept it handy.

I would co-operate as much as possible.Its only when things start going out of hands, I pick my phone to dial that SOS. The news channels generally jump at such information. I tried it once and it worked like wonder.

When the cops were trying to con you the next day, you could have called up the press from the spot. I am sure the cops would have taken a step back.

The power of the fourth estate scares everyone.

But all said, I pray for a speedy resolution. All the best.
That does sound like a pretty good idea. But what will you do if such a scenario occurs in another place/ state where your fone numbers wont make a difference. Then one has to rely on oneself and ones connection with the MAIN SWITCH(sitting up there playing his game).

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
We can sit, crib and blame the system but we always forget that system is made up of our very own people. There's one and only one solution to this - change of leadership.

Is anyone following the Amit Jethwa, an RTI activist, murder case? With leadership like this I sometimes wonder if we were better off ruled by British.
Now thats a heavy statement which can make a thread run 200 pages long with wild sentiments running riot. I sure do agree with you though. We have got our freedom too easy and hence the lack of respect and absence of responsibility. Its a free for all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanwaramit View Post
Jay, I am really pained at seeing the trouble the cops are putting you in for want of some money themselves.

You did a good samaritan job by taking her and attending her troubles, ensuring that all is well with her and these guys are all out to extract money in any which way from you.

I seriously pray for you for the case to be thrown away in first hearing itself.

Have you appointed a lawyer for yourself ?
No no lawyer yet. Will wait for the summons. Then go to the court without a lawyer. Then the judge will tell me to appoint one and the next hearing I shall get one from the road outside to represent me for 200-300 per hearing. But most likely the complainants might not even show up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by prince_pervez View Post
Jay, you were just unlucky that cops were lurking around when this happened.... You were plain unlucky to have cops. Crap happens man. Do your handle and move on bud! If that ain't beating the current system then what is ?
Yeah, I agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arbj2 View Post
sorry for the unfortunate incidence.

I believe these people will keep demanding money from you again and again, they are taking advantage of your nature and are counting on the fact that you would not go to court.

Instead of settling this in front of the police, you should consult a good lawyer and try to settle the matter in front of a judge or a magistrate. Once this is recorded in the court any future cases will be in your favour.
No nothing more will be paid by me. The police have filed a complaint and the matter will be in court soon as they file a chargesheet. Im not worried about it. **** happens in life and sometimes it stinks. This is that time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ~~h View Post
Jay, it's really sad to go through such an ordeal.. all the best for your court appointment.

Reminds me of an incident ...

Forget everything else, you must be paying at least 15K in income tax alone each month, did you get any kind good treatment for that (at least) at the police station ? well.. welcome to India.

PS:Humble piece of advise, when you are getting a friend for help; call someone who can talk local, it really helps with the cops.
Great, You had a smart driver. Lucky you. Well, the good part is, that I dont vote and I am a tax free citizen of this country.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
Sirs, this is a third world country, and the way of confining(and expecting others) to a system is not practically applicable. Life is just better than it was in the cave and the jungles and so it is pointless to talk about roads.
Dont be so sure... maybe the caves and jungles might have been better with a lot more exciting hazards to offer than drunk street urchins.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RemingtonSteele View Post
@Jay, It was very courageous of you to deal the whole situation in truthful manner. I don't know if I would have done the same or even have had courage to do whatever you did;I really admire your guts and integrity to deal with these things.

It is also important for you not loose your heart and remain the same good hearted what you have been. Getting apart from the lecture I would say you committed one mistake; somehow you should have done the blood test for the victim to prove she was drunk.

Secondly,checkout the insurance vehicle company liability and role in this whole matter.

Lastly, on the police. Its very easy to pass comments on these guys. Just think how many crooks we face in every aspects of our life. The Police system is also not an exception to it. Just give it a thought a Senoir Policeman as senior as ACP earns 17600/- max. per month (i know one who has been in services for 3 years and who voluntarily opted to serve Naxal Area like Gadhchiroli) just compare how much eachone of us earn as compared to the efforts these people put in. Also keep in mind they don't have the facilities like what army guys have like subsidised canteens or outlets for their daily living needs.

So, its best not to talk how the lowly police havaldars with minmal payouts manages his month. They live in some shabby place call police colony if provided by govt. and if they don't stay in police colony (which are often full) just think how they are going to afford rents and then carry out monthly expenses in such salaries; please understand I am not justifying corruption they participate in but these earning conditions are not conducive for them to keep morals intact and not get corrupted. Morals can remain intact when you are tested for a scenario in life which happnes once in a while but in this case this scenario is their everyday life.These people have zero family life, they don't have working hours, be it day or night or any immergency eg: its raining and traffic signals are not working these guys are out in whatever conditions and are managing the show. When everyone is enjoying or celebrating these guys are out on the roads away from their families and manning the atmosphere so that the situations do go out of control.

I am not saying that I have had good experience with Police guys but I reached this conclusion when I happened to visit the Chinese Police station when I was Nanjing. We complain everything against the kind of population we have to handle so cannot be compared with anyone else in the world but China is on par with us on the population but still the disparity in very clear. The Police station was just a bit short to a 5 Star Hotel (and I mean it). The kind facilties they get, their patrol vehicles cars/bikes etc., their starched ironed uniforms and respect/terror with what people look at them. The kind of life style they live etc. just a glance of it made me thinking of our police system who are treated like a peice of dirt by even the unworthy man.
Well I feel that if the cops feel their salaries are low, then they should go on strike and get justice from the same system that they represent and protect. We are the first people in the world to go on strikes to protest, so why are the cops sleeping. Go on strike, there is chaos already, there will be some more. Atleast then it will wake up some more people sleeping in the corridors of power. If they(the cops) find the going tough, they are free to exercise their right of choice to find other sources of livelihood.
To sympathize with a cop for his tough job and low salary is equivalent to justify sympathy for the person who hits and flees from an accident. The troubles are the same.
If Iam to be responsible for anomalies in the system because I am part of it then the onus fixing the system(atleast the one in which they operate) is entirely their(cops) own responsibility. Why should they deserve any sympathy from the common man that they harass so much.

Yes, agreed that there are a few good police. But then how does it matter. For every one person like me who helps a victim there are hundreds out there who flee. So its all the same. Nothing matters. System or no system. You and only you are solely responsible for your individual actions, whatever they may be.
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Old 24th July 2010, 01:47   #43
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Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post


On hindsight, it was very easy for me to run. And for sure it was so dark that no one would even see the number.
I dont think the next time something like this happens, i will allow myself to think like a civilised cultured human. If I can manage it, I wont turn to look nor stop to think.


There really is no hope.
I might sound politically incorrect but I say what is on my mind.

Jay, don't stop and don't help.

I know people will say that what if someone hits you and runs away? Then what?

Then I will tell myself "Download2Live, You just paid the price of being an Indian. Good Day."
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Old 24th July 2010, 07:56   #44
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Download2Live- please dont include all indians in you definition of 'Indian'.
You walk away due to our upbring and values. You can rationalise it but please dont drag all indians into one category.

My own parents and close relatives have benefitted from the kindness of absolute strangers when others chose to drive away.

It is a question of your upbringing and value system. If you can live with it on your consience then perhaps you can walk away.

That said, it is surprising how many so called educated people 'rationalise' it and blame everyone else/the system.

No ones said it was easy, however please dont blame lack individual strength on the weakness of society.

Sorry- touchy topic and I too had to say my mind.

Hats off to Jay.
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Old 24th July 2010, 08:16   #45
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@jaysmokesleaves: What you did was really commendable. Had I been in your condition, I would have panicked. Not only you stopped and tried to help the victim, but you also handled the situation in a very mature way. Hats off to you.
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