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Old 2nd November 2013, 19:40   #31
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Thumbs down Punching of License - for Punishing or Blackmailing?

Hello dear members,

I wanted to discuss this topic for long with my two incidences in mind and searched the board today to find no mention of the topic.

Traffic Police has gone stricter over the last few years, which is indeed a boon for the modern society, with increase in crime rate and huge boom in cars on streets with people shifting from 2 wheeler to 4 wheels rapidly.

One tool with Traffic Police to keep frequent offenders in check is 'Punching' of license. For those who did not get this, traffic police has the right to punch one out of five dots on each offense, perceived to be of 'serious' nature mostly. In the last one year I have had two such incidences when the traffic police person has threatened another person in front of me to punch the license upon an argument, which ofcourse the involved cop took on his 'ego'. First of sort was when I was travelling with a friend and he was talking on phone while driving. We were pulled over by traffic police in a rash manner, the traffic police person pulled out keys of his car and tried to snatch my friend's phone while using abusive language, with 2 ladies on board with us. I fired a voley of decent and moral responsibility and social ettiquette words at the traffic police person and a huge crowd gathered by then. I took out my phone to contact a senior police person to report the same and he had to publically apologize for his language and action of pulling out keys from the car and attempt of snatching the phone. My friend had agreed to pay the challan and accepted his mistake from the word go. But upon issuing the challan, the cop's ego kicked in and he snatched the license and punched it claiming it is legal for them and mandatory for him to do that (while I have never seen someone do it for a minor offense). In the end and after a long tussle he still punched my friend's license.
On another occasion, I was standing and waiting for a friend when an Autowala parked his auto in no parking and the cop openly asked for 500/- rs. from him or threatened to issue a challan of 1000/- for parking in no parking. The poor old fellow begged to leave him for 200/- but the cop just did not budge. He took his license and in a jiffy punched it just because the Autowala refused to give him 500/- rs. as bribe. I intervened and knowing that an educated person will now kick his rear, he returned the RC and punched license and issued Challan of 100/- but the damage was done. Again, he took it on his ego when refused the bribe.

This 'facility' with traffic police boils my blood and I seek a clear guideline on this, I can even approach judiciary if there is no approach to it as we all can escape with money but what does a poor fellow do? A punched license is a 'mental agony' we all know and never want to see this done to our licenses. Please contribute with legal guidelines if any or a solution as to what can we say when the traffic police threatens to punch the license on a minor mistake?

Last edited by gaurav_diavolo : 2nd November 2013 at 19:46. Reason: typo
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Old 2nd November 2013, 22:49   #32
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Default Re: Punching of License - for Punishing or Blackmailing?

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Originally Posted by gaurav_diavolo View Post
Hello dear members,

I took out my phone to contact a senior police person to report the same and he had to publically apologize for his language and action of pulling out keys from the car and attempt of snatching the phone. My friend had agreed to pay the challan and accepted his mistake from the word go. But upon issuing the challan, the cop's ego kicked in and he snatched the license and punched it claiming it is legal for them and mandatory for him to do that (while I have never seen someone do it for a minor offense). In the end and after a long tussle he still punched my friend's license.
You should have reported the same incident to the senior police officer and got a clarification from his side, what say? If it is legal for them to do so then even the senior police officer would have told you that nothing can be done. If the field officer was wrong then he could have been taken to task then and there itself. Yes as per their rulebook there 'could' be nothing minor and major. Just that one offence = one punch. Now that four more are left, it is better one take this optimistically, as a lesson and not commit any offence, major or minor.

I had experienced similar treatment from cops but not for an offence. The Police here stopped me on my scoot because I was wearing a helmet, in my own residential area. As per their logic chain snatchers wear helmets and commit crimes, so indirectly they were questioning why I was wearing a helmet in a residential area.
They pulled out my keys and started verifying each documents and everything was in order, from my DL to insurance, all in my name. Hence, they explained the whole setup and took down my details. A few days later, the same incident repeated. Another guy stops me and starts the same drama. This time I got heavily pissed and gave him an earful about how they look at everyone as criminals. Ego problem started and I had to call up his super senior officer to settle things. Now everyday when I pass by the place I am greeted with a smile and nod.

The first time, I was willing to co-operate because they were doing their job. After getting to know that I am a regular commuter in that road, they shouldnt have stopped me again. The second time they did, the cop was rude and arrogant. That is not acceptable, given that there was no mistake of mine again. So he got his share of PR lessons.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 23:21   #33
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Originally Posted by gaurav_diavolo View Post
Please contribute with legal guidelines if any or a solution as to what can we say when the traffic police threatens to punch the license on a minor mistake?
You may probably consider filing an RTI application with the jurisdictional police asking specific queries as to which offences warrant the licence being punched etc. More info on the public information officer details will be available on the state police websites..

This information will help you decide on your future course of action..
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Old 5th November 2013, 15:43   #34
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Default A Bad Cop

Last week when I was driving from NECE Express Way to Electronic City Junction (Bangalore), I was stopped by cop who asked me "why are joining towards the main road from service road" . (I take this route everyday and the same cop diverts the traffic to the main road to avoid traffic jam in service road). I asked him is there a problem if I join the main road from service road?

He suddenly got furious and dint let me go, and when questioned why he started yelling at me. The very next moment I noticed that he had diverted opposite traffic even though they had a red signal and had stopped us even though we had green.

When I questioned him regarding this, he instantly took out his BlackBerry and recorded a complaint on my car for Jumping Signal .

I dont understand why cops take undue advantage of their privileges and take law in their hands, I am planning to complain against this cop in the nearest police station, there must be an end to their power misuse.
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Old 5th November 2013, 19:28   #35
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Default Re: Abuse of position on Indian roads by officials

Why only on roads, they abuse power everywhere. They still think they are the ruling class of the raj.
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Old 5th November 2013, 22:14   #36
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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Why only on roads, they abuse power everywhere. They still think they are the ruling class of the raj.

Not the Raj. They really behave like they are the new Maharajahs of India by divine right! Filthy scum.

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Originally Posted by petrogeek View Post
Lets start with the photo : A beat up Santro, A Single star (brigadier , The words ARMY on the windscreen, and last of all the Beacon light or lal baati..What any government offcial hankers for!! Despite Taurean bulls vehement attempts at defending the indefensible the facts dont lie and this is what it is:- Use of Beacon lights is governed by the Central Motor Vehicles Act Rule 108 clause 3. In addition the state Government is also empowered under its own State Act to allow usage of beacons to notified persons. There are different categories of Beacons Red Beacon with Flasher - Red Beacon without Flasher Amber Beacon and Blue Beacon- for police vehicles and ambulance Our esteemed brigadier falls in neither of the above a categories!! AS per the Act, the only personnel entitled to a red beacon WITHOUT flasher are Chiefs of Staff of the three services holding the rank of full General or equivalent rank AND Officiating Chiefs of Staff of the three services holding the rank of Lt. General or equivalent rank. So Brigadier Saab has flouted the law. In fact, everyday you can find Armed Forces vehicles with the words " CO" written on it!! can you believe it a Colonel ranked officer which is below a brigadier sporting a Red Beacon!. You can Even find vehicles like " Chief Works Engineer" sporting beacons!! Not to singe out the armed forces here. Let me cite some more worst offenders:- Ordnance Factory Board personnel, Income Tax Personnell, Lower court Judges, Members of so many Tribunals, commissions, MLa's Members of Municipal Bodies, and the list goes on. This self styled modern day Rajahs need to know the colonial days of the ruler and the ruled , the " mai- baap" concept is done and dusted.

I would rather the Brigadier uses the red beacon than the filthy scum politicos and other such! The Armed Forces have a greater right!

Last edited by FlyingSpur : 6th November 2013 at 09:46. Reason: Please use multi-quote instead of creating back-to-back posts.
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Old 5th November 2013, 22:41   #37
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Default Re: Abuse of position on Indian roads by officials

Red Beacons on operational vehicles are legit. How else do you provide for a red beacon to a SHO? The only limiting factors in this scenario is that they can use it only in the area of their jurisdiction. Otherwise the beacon has to be covered or removed. CHTs are not authorised the use of the symbols but then we do have a fix for everything. Writing Army on a car, how is it illegal, I fail to understand? When we write the names of the entire family or extended even, to catchy slogans, what is wrong in using the word Army, when it helps in recognising another person of the same fraternity.
I remember about 10 years back an Army Order was issued which required insignias and the words "Army" removed from the personal vehicles of all officers on the threat of a CM. What is the present status of those orders I am not sure, but why can I not wear proudly my coat of arms (unit/formation insignia) and the pride of being associated with the Nation's Defenders? It is my freedom of expression guaranteed by the constitution. Next they will criticise my using the team bhp stickers too?

Last edited by wanderernomad : 5th November 2013 at 22:42.
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Old 25th November 2013, 18:51   #38
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Default Re: Abuse of position on Indian roads by officials

A traumatizing incident from traffic officials in Delhi:
http://www.merinews.com/article/gurg...15892226.shtml

Quote:
I was beaten up by two policemen at Huda City Centre square, Gurgaon. The incident took place at 9.00 am, when me and my wife were travelling on my bike towards work from Sector 40 via Sushant Lok. When we almost crossed the red light, I saw one traffic cop signaling me to stop. My speedometer read 50-55 during the time I applied my break and gradually moved my bike to the road side. The traffic constable jumped at me, in my bike. Due to which, I nearly fell along with my wife, but somehow, I managed to maintain the balance.

Suddenly the constable started slapping me on my helmet after which he removed my helmet and threw it 20 feet away and kept slapping on my face. Later another police officer joined in the act and started to punch in my stomach. I was in so much pain that I could not utter a word. My wife kept on protesting and then joined another 20-30 office goers, who protested in my support. Hence, the cops stopped beating me, but I had till then already been slapped 7 to 8 times and the other cop had already punched me 5 to 6 times in my stomach. The gathered public asked the police, as to why I was beaten? They replied back stating that I jumped the red light and was trying to run away in speed while the constable was stopping me. This is far away from the truth. Clearly we hadn't jumped the red light, as the light was green when we were passing the square. The square is so big that it might be possible that when we crossed the light at one end, it may have eventually turned to yellow when we reached the other end. The other thing that I was alleged - I was trying to run away in speed, as to what they claimed if that was the case, then either me and my wife or the constable would have got injured, as the constable caught my bike.
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Old 25th November 2013, 19:36   #39
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Default Re: Abuse of position on Indian roads by officials

Does the law give rights to a police man to hit another person?
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Old 9th December 2013, 21:21   #40
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Originally Posted by Abeer View Post
Does the law give rights to a police man to hit another person?
The law doesn't care. Welcome to India. Here the police do you a favor by collecting bribes and generally being a menace. The police in India can get away with murder. Once in a while, the Supreme Court gets into the fray and orders token punishment. Otherwise, it's all good.

Today, as usual, my chai walla was hauled into the police man, his pockets emptied and sent on his way. The funny thing was the fellow was thrilled because business hadn't yet picked up and the cops only got about 90 rupees since they came early (9am). I guess security is expensive in this city.
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Old 10th December 2013, 11:24   #41
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Default Re: Punching of License - for Punishing or Blackmailing?

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Originally Posted by gaurav_diavolo View Post
In the end and after a long tussle he still punched my friend's license.
How do they get punched information if someone applies for duplicate license?
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Old 10th December 2013, 14:28   #42
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Default Re: Abuse of position on Indian roads by officials

Braj, there is no data collected upon punching license, they just punched my friends license and walked away, nothing was even taken on record even on the challan, hence I am sure the Duplicate license comes with no punches on it.
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Old 10th December 2013, 14:50   #43
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Default Re: Abuse of position on Indian roads by officials

Further to the red beacon debate on this forum. Supreme court has come up with a judgement on removal of beacon for all apart from constitutional authorities. As per the list mentioned in news article CM's and state ministers are not listed, not sure if this is an omission.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/la...-lateststories
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Old 10th December 2013, 14:51   #44
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Default Re: Abuse of position on Indian roads by officials

Quote:
Originally Posted by _raVan_ View Post
A traumatizing incident from traffic officials in Delhi:
http://www.merinews.com/article/gurg...15892226.shtml
An update from him on the same reflected in the article:

Quote:
I want to inform you that, the CP traffic police ordered probe into the matter and the ACP Traffic handled the case. The ACP traffic listened to me and called upon accused police officers in their office. After listening the accused police officers defense, the ACP discarded their defense and given judgment in my favor. The ACP ordered accused police officers to apologize for the incident and pay the challan that they imposed to me. The message that I want to spared for all common people that please dont tolerate any of the unlawful act, believe in the system and fight for justice.
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Old 11th December 2013, 13:03   #45
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Default Re: Abuse of position on Indian roads by officials

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Originally Posted by _raVan_ View Post
An update from him on the same reflected in the article:
Effectively nothing was done by the Police.
What about something more strict to act as a deterrent - like suspension for a month, or even termination if similar such cases (genuine) come up against the same police person.
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