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Old 9th August 2010, 00:51   #16
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force is force, impact is impact. estilo guy was speeding at wrong side. its a minor damage to fiat because its a fiat. i have not seen the offender's estilo but i can imagine the 4times more damage to the estilo.
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Old 9th August 2010, 01:08   #17
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if the vehicle is speeding at extreme right side on particular road, opposite side fellow cannot judge the car is at center or at right, even truck driver thought fiat will pass, as the truck was behind, fiat had to move towards the divider to avoid a collision from the truck, he stopped at the point from where he could see the opposite side road. fiat went just 2feet to the other side of the road. as the ZEN estilo driver was a learner (usually learners cannot judge the left side of their vehicle) so stuck to the extreme right, and as soon as he saw fiat car, he could not shift his lane by slowing down and applied sudden brake, his brakes got locked and that leads to this accident.
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Old 9th August 2010, 11:00   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revvinhard View Post
if the vehicle is speeding at extreme right side on particular road, opposite side fellow cannot judge the car is at center or at right, even truck driver thought fiat will pass, as the truck was behind, fiat had to move towards the divider to avoid a collision from the truck, he stopped at the point from where he could see the opposite side road. fiat went just 2feet to the other side of the road. as the ZEN estilo driver was a learner (usually learners cannot judge the left side of their vehicle) so stuck to the extreme right, and as soon as he saw fiat car, he could not shift his lane by slowing down and applied sudden brake, his brakes got locked and that leads to this accident.
I have a few points to say here.
1. "opposite side fellow cannot judge the car is at center or at right". If one cannot judge whether the car in opposite direction is on the center or right lane, he should not try and squeeze in to the other lane, instead wait for that car to pass by.
2. "fiat had to move towards the divider to avoid a collision from the truck". This means that the Fiat was in a hurry to cross. If he had calculated the turn well in advance and slowed down, even the lorry behind him would have slowed down. This clearly shows lack of planning. In such cases, it is better to miss a turn and go forward to the next turn and then come back.
3. "he could not shift his lane by slowing down and applied sudden brake". Shifting the lane abruptly in a busy area like K'mgla is not a very nice thing to do. The Estilo guy did a very good thing by hitting the brakes and NOT shifting the lane. This made sure he did not cause problems to other people driving beside him.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 9th August 2010, 11:15   #19
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Originally Posted by revvinhard View Post
estilo guy was speeding at wrong side.
Hain!!!!!!! What makes you say that mate? Suggest you please look at the illustrative pic and video posted on previous page.

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i have not seen the offender's estilo but i can imagine the 4times more damage to the estilo.
Apparently for no fault of his..

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if the vehicle is speeding at extreme right side on particular road, opposite side fellow cannot judge the car is at center or at right
You don't seiously mean that - do you? One has no business to be behind the wheels on public roads if such judgment is lacking!!

And even if the opposite side fellow can not judge the car for lack of skills/anticipation - whatever, is it safe to make your vehicle jut in the path of oncoming traffic? And if someone does that, who is to be blamed in case of an accident like this?

As DieselAddikt also mentioned, if fiat is hit by two vehicles - both from front and rear - then probably it is a fault which lies elsewhere and not with the estilo/lorry.

Last edited by AlokSriva : 9th August 2010 at 11:17.
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Old 9th August 2010, 11:24   #20
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The Estilo guy was definitely over speeding. Looks like Sujiths car just poked in a bit (Estilo wasnt even visible before poking in and he saw the path to be clear) and by the time he could spot the speeding Estilo, BANG! The way in which he poked in, the truck driver might have felt he would complete the turn and did not slow down. May be even he did not over look the Estilo or it might not have been visible yet. Not much damage was done by the truck driver.

How could you blame Sujith for this? Looks like everyone on the thread seems to support over speeding of the Estilo! If Estilo was at normal speed, this wouldnt have happened and he would have been able to stop in time. Speeding on the right most lane and not caring that there could be median for U and right turns, is this justified? Did the Estilo think that the road on both sides had 10 foot walls and no one can enter the road from any side and was speeding?

If the brakes locked and impact happened, this is a testimony that Estilo was over speeding. Whether ot not he had a lincense, he sped away. Sujith did tell me that he wasnt able to note the number of the car for the very reason. Again, shows overspeeding. Only thing Sujith could have done was to chase him down. He did not as he felt shattered and was a bit worried about the kid in the car. If he were alone, he would have chased him down for sure. I know the capability of Sujith's FIAT and his driving skills.

Last edited by funkykar : 9th August 2010 at 11:32.
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Old 9th August 2010, 11:34   #21
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Ouch thats gotta hurt. I hope Sujit recovers from it ASAP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
The Estilo guy was definitely over speeding.
Your whole explanation is based on this assumption.
Another assumption can be that the Fiat turned into Estilo's path too fast for the Estilo to avoid a collision.
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Old 9th August 2010, 11:39   #22
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No one is trying to shield estilo guy - at least not me, in case he was indeed overspeeding.

Point is, we can not control the actions/driving of others on the road and therefore, the onus is on us to drive in a safer manner.

Having said that, I still hold my point on 'right of way' being that of estilo guy - speeding or not.
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Old 9th August 2010, 11:44   #23
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My narration was exactly based on what Sujith told me. How many times havn't we seen near misses like these where there are medians where U and right turns are allowed. I have had such misses especially on highways when we are speeding on right most lanes. On highway, person going straight has the right of way.

In simple, the Estilo guy never expected a median to be there and thought his path is very clear and was very casually over speeding and was taken by surprise. To add to this, Sujith's house is less than 200 feet from the accident point. He and his family members go through this turn atleast 5-6 times a day since decades. He definitely knows this junction very well. Since a kid was in car and no safety features like a seat belt in the good old Fiats, he was extra careful.

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Originally Posted by AlokSriva View Post
No one is trying to shield estilo guy - at least not me, in case he was indeed overspeeding.

Point is, we can not control the actions/driving of others on the road and therefore, the onus is on us to drive in a safer manner.

Having said that, I still hold my point on 'right of way' being that of estilo guy - speeding or not.
If cars are zipping at 70-100kmph on right most lanes that have medians, when and how should a car take a U/right turn coming from the opposite side? You seem to suggest that no one should take a right or a U turn even at the designated juntions that comply with traffic rules.

Overspeeding is always dangerous and can kill.

Last edited by funkykar : 9th August 2010 at 11:48.
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Old 9th August 2010, 11:53   #24
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As long as no one is hurt (less egos) I would suggest that we end it on a happy note.
if you have noticed vehicles is big cities bear the signs of battling for space and wear their war wounds proudly!!! i had my boot tucked into my rear seat by a swaraj mazada-i had stopped at a signal-not all of a sudden but must have been there for about 30 secs and RAM -my boot gone in. After 4 hours of Police Report and arguements- i had to take it to my dealer and repair through insurance.

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Old 9th August 2010, 12:01   #25
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I think the incident unfolded as depicted in DieselAddikt's diagram. The Fiat poked it's nose partly in to the oncoming Estilo's lane and stopped suddenly. The damage in the Fiat's front left side is what will happen when the Estilo driver slams his brakes and tries to take evasive action to his left. The correct way to stop/pause before taking a right / U turn is on our own side of the road, not partly in to the opposite side.

The Estilo guy's mistake was he kept to the right lane instead of moving to the centre one even after noticing a break in the median, but then he was an L board guy, wasn't he?

BTW where was the Fiat hit at the rear by the truck? I bet that too is on the left side, when the truck driver braked and moved to his left side. The fact that there was a frontal as well as rear impact means the Fiat was abrupt in it's movement.

Last edited by Gansan : 9th August 2010 at 12:05.
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Old 9th August 2010, 12:07   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I think the incident unfolded as depicted in DieselAddikt's diagram. The Fiat poked it's nose partly in to the oncoming Estilo's lane and stopped suddenly. The damage in the Fiat's front left side is what will happen when the Estilo driver slams his brakes and tries to take evasive action to his left. The correct way to stop/pause before taking a right / U turn is on our own side of the road, not partly in to the opposite side.

BTW where was the Fiat hit at the rear by the truck? I bet that too is on the left side, when the truck driver braked and moved to his left side.
If it were an OMNI, Sujith could have stayed on his side of the road and look for oncoming traffic. Any other car, you have to poke until u get a visibility. Thats all the Fiat did, hardly 1.5 feet into the oncoming road. Impact on the front left says that he wasnt too much into the oncoming road yet. If impact had happened any further towards the back, Fiat would have definitely be at fault. The estilo driver might have realised his mistake hence he sped away, so fast that Sujith couldnt note the number.

The truck only brushed the rear bumper (right side).
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Old 9th August 2010, 12:26   #27
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Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
My narration was exactly based on what Sujith told me.
Point taken.

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How many times havn't we seen near misses like these where there are medians where U and right turns are allowed.
That's because the folks taking right don't understand that the oncoming traffic has right of way. Such drivers slowly poke into the way of oncoming traffic causing a bottleneck.

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I have had such misses especially on highways when we are speeding on right most lanes. On highway, person going straight has the right of way.
It is not limited only to highways, even within city limits, traffic moving straight has the right of way.

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In simple, the Estilo guy never expected a median to be there and thought his path is very clear and was very casually over speeding and was taken by surprise.
Not sure if speeding itself is possible on Koramangala roads, leave alone overspeeding..

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To add to this, Sujith's house is less than 200 feet from the accident point. He and his family members go through this turn atleast 5-6 times a day since decades. He definitely knows this junction very well.
Another unbiased way to look at this could be that the same mistake was being carried out since decades till our friend's luck ran out.

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Since a kid was in car and no safety features like a seat belt in the good old Fiats, he was extra careful.
I definitely applaud Sujith for this extra care.


Quote:
If cars are zipping at 70-100kmph on right most lanes that have medians, when and how should a car take a U/right turn coming from the opposite side? You seem to suggest that no one should take a right or a U turn even at the designated juntions that comply with traffic rules.
As mentioned earlier also, I used to consider myself extremely lucky if I was able to move to 4th gear while driving on any Koramangala road. Therefore, zipping at 70-100 kmph is quite an exaggeration IMHO.

Regarding your question how to take a right/U-turn at such crossings, one needs to wait till there is a sufficient distance between the turn and the next oncoming vehicle. The oncoming traffic would reduce periodically depending on the sequence/timing of traffic signal at previous junction - no matter how far/near is this signal from the point of right/U-turn under consideration. Only when the oncoming traffic has ebbed, one should make the desired move. Now this would be my suggestion than what incorrectly inferred by you.

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Overspeeding is always dangerous and can kill.
All the more reason for us to follow traffic rules ourselves and pray that we don't pay for the sins of others

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If it were an OMNI, Sujith could have stayed on his side of the road and look for oncoming traffic.
Lucky for Sujith that it wasn't an OMNI is all I would say.

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Any other car, you have to poke until u get a visibility.
Sorry, don't agree here.. unless there's a really wide central median with all sort of shrubs/bushes/trees one has the visibility of oncoming traffic. AFAIK, there are no such wide medians in the area where accident took place. Only there are iron grills (that too missing at most of the places) on the central verge which is no more than 2.5 feet wide all over Koramangala (in areas adjoining 100 feet road).
On the contrary, if its a pretty wide median, then you have space to take almost the entire right/U-turn within the median gap itself and you don't need to poke. All one needs to do in such a case is to identify sufficiently far oncoming vehicle (now it would become merging traffic since most of his U-turn is already complete) and then safely complete the right/U-turn.

Quote:
The Estilo guy's mistake was he kept to the right lane instead of moving to the centre one even after noticing a break in the median, but then he was an L board guy, wasn't he?
@Gansan - no sir.. there shouldn't be any lane cutting if we go by rule book. If there's an obstruction in my lane, I need to slow down/stop rather than cutting to left lane abruptly and incoveniencing vehicular movement of left lane too. However, if the left lane is empty/or there is sufficient gap between me and vehicle in left lane, one can safely switch after indicating properly.


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Originally Posted by Judemayne View Post
As long as no one is hurt (less egos) I would suggest that we end it on a happy note.
Well said Colonel.
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Old 9th August 2010, 12:40   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlokSriva View Post
@Gansan - no sir.. there shouldn't be any lane cutting if we go by rule book. If there's an obstruction in my lane, I need to slow down/stop rather than cutting to left lane abruptly and incoveniencing vehicular movement of left lane too. However, if the left lane is empty/or there is sufficient gap between me and vehicle in left lane, one can safely switch after indicating properly.
No, I did not mean lane cutting. When I expect to go past a signal or see a right turn marking on the road, I move to the centre lane much in advance. The Estilo guy obviously did not either anticipate the break in the median or ignored the right arrows that must have been painted on his own side of the road.
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Old 9th August 2010, 12:46   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
No, I did not mean lane cutting. When I expect to go past a signal or see a right turn marking on the road, I move to the centre lane much in advance. The Estilo guy obviously did not either anticipate the break in the median or ignored the right arrows that must have been painted on his own side of the road.
What you have mentioned definitely holds true in case there's an approaching traffic signal and one needs to be in the correct lane so as not to inconvenience himslef and others.

Not sure why should one switch to left lane in case there's a gap in median.

EDIT - on second thoughts, maybe in our context it makes sense to switch to left lane if there's a gap in median to ensure no vehicle suddenly pops/juts out to take a right/U-turn.. makes sense..

Last edited by AlokSriva : 9th August 2010 at 12:48.
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Old 9th August 2010, 12:47   #30
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Take it easy. There always an element of luck when you are on the road, irrespective of how good/bad the driver is.

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Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
Thats all the Fiat did, hardly 1.5 feet into the oncoming road. Impact on the front left says that he wasnt too much into the oncoming road yet.
Boy, oh boy, are you forgetting that we all drive cars here.

If you are begining to take a right turn, driver (right) side of your car pokes in to the on coming traffic. The damage clearly indicated that the Fiat was already at 90 degree to oncoming, since it was hit at left side. This would be possible only if
1) There is a 4-5 feet wide median
2) What you are saying is not true.
3) Driver goes to left of the road to take a wide turn into right.

Pick yours
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