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Old 13th November 2010, 14:26   #1
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Default Overturned my Honda Jazz!

Hey guys
After a long time I got access to team-bhp. I have been trying long to post my ownership report but couldnt' because of membership issues.
I wanted to update you folks with a major accident that I had with Jazz.
I was travelling to Pondy from Chennai with my wife and 2 year old kid on the 2 month old Silver Jazz. I was around 70 - 75 Kmph when a bus came opposite direction. As usual all buses drive in center of the road, so I had to take a little left. It had rained during the day and there was damp sand on the corner of the road. All of a sudden I felt as if my tyre was slipping and took a right,
That's it. My car was on two wheels and I didnt have any control over it. After which, my car toppled (Yes Upside down) and fell near a bank of back waters. We were all hanging from the floor. Fortunately, we were on seat belts and my son was on a baby carrier. Fortunately, all of us got out without a scratch. Thank the Almighty. I am still trying to realize what caused that issue.
Is the tyre really not enough (175/65) for a Jazz. May be a 190 would have been better ?
Most of it is going to be paid by insurance, my delivery time is around 2 months :(
I really am desperately waiting to get back on my Jazz.

All- Please ensure safety belts, and carry children in their carriers. It really saved us.
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Old 14th November 2010, 09:07   #2
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Going by your description I doubt whether a wider tyre would have done you much good.

By and large most (if not all) OE tyres are a narrower than they ought to be. Economy and price (I think it is mostly the former) are the main reasons. So a Plus One upgrade is desirable, at the first tyre change. Also, Honda are finicky so a tyre upgrade may affect your warranty.
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Old 18th November 2010, 12:26   #3
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That's a very scary incident and good to know that you and your family are safe. Tires slipping on wet sand etc is not very uncommon but turning the car upside down is not that common particularly since you were not going very fast!
Better quality rubber would have definitely helped but it is tough to say that it would have helped in avoiding the accident.
Jazz is tired ok for it's size and power - the ANHC with much more power comes with same tires which is horrible.
Other than tire size, the quality of the rubber matters. Which OEM tires you have got on your car? MRF/GoddYear/Michelin? The MRF's are known for providing very bad grip.
Please switch to Michelin XM1+ or PP2. Upsizing the tires will definitely void the warranty related to suspension etc but also make the ride harsher (which is already stiff) . I will upsize after 3-4 years when the warranty issues will not be there.
Drive safe and take care!
Mods, can this thread moved to the appropriate section?
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Old 18th November 2010, 12:51   #4
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Was it the sudden turn to the right that made you topple?

If going through wet area was the problem, narrow tyres usually plough through better. If the right tyres were not able to handle the sudden turn, then wider tyres could have helped.

Anyway, its great that you guys were belted and had no problems physically.
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Old 19th November 2010, 14:00   #5
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I have OEM good year tyres.
SriShiva - I am not sure what was the cause of the topple. The road was not very broad, and after the turn I came to center of the road, however, I am trying to realize what could have been the issue. Was shell shocked at that time.
I thought the airbags should have blown open, but I realized after reading through various forums, that it opens on a straight collision.
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Old 19th November 2010, 17:24   #6
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Great that everyone came out unscathed from the incident.

I guess your car must have over steered, with the sudden right turn, making the rear end fishtail and the car going in a perpendicular direction to the road. The nice grip levels of the left side tires prevented if from skidding, and lifting it instead resulting in the overturn.

Ironic it may seem, but poor tires might have caused the car to skid more and maybe avoided the overturning.

EDIT: If that was indeed the case, wider tires won't have helped. And I am definitely not promoting using worn out tires!

Last edited by lordofgondor : 19th November 2010 at 17:26.
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Old 20th November 2010, 19:13   #7
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From what i feel, is that the left rear wheel dug into the sand/mud and flipped the car when SB turned right suddenly to get all wheels back on tarmac.
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Old 6th December 2010, 09:57   #8
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Sounds good that you were wearing seatbelts.. and all of you are safe.

Some Points:
1. If your car goes to two wheels; like on left tries, then take a left turn to balance. If on right tires then a right turn.
2. Get wider tires.
3. Get the car lowered if possibile.

my 2 cents..

Thanks
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Old 6th December 2010, 10:48   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snorting bull View Post
It had rained during the day and there was damp sand on the corner of the road. All of a sudden I felt as if my tyre was slipping and took a right
Yes, its pouring like hell in Chennai these days & what you've experienced is nothing but the effect of water seepage between road & tyres contacts. On such occassion one should slightly steer or brake.

I've experienced this slip only once in my life & that was sufficient to learn my lesson. Fortunately nothing, I mean, absolutely nothing happened. This happened last year when I was tailgating an Octavia on NH46 when it was pouring like crazy. All of a sudden I realized my car is being lifted & steering & brakes have no effect. Only then I realized the power of water. I sensed this & then stopped steering or counter steering & started releasing the brakes, but gradually. Somehow I got the control back.

Having learned that, I now know what's the safe controllable speed on my car in the rains.

Once again, during Nov 1st week we'd rains all way from Krishnagiri upto Chennai (yes all the 250 odd Kms) & I was able to keep up my speed without loosing control.

But for the speeds you did (70/75) & the car you had, I highly doubt if this would've happened at all. I've a WagonR & I could do 80 Kmph safe on pouring rain. But on stagnant waters, should never go beyond 40 without loosing the control. Pls check with fellow members who own Jazz, there should be a safe speed on such occassions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snorting bull View Post
All- Please ensure safety belts, and carry children in their carriers. It really saved us.
Yes I strongly agree, but unfortunately, I'm one of the culprit who keeps driving without this. Hope God doesn't punish me!!!

Last edited by aargee : 6th December 2010 at 10:50.
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Old 6th December 2010, 19:42   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muditgrover View Post
1. If your car goes to two wheels; like on left tries, then take a left turn to balance. If on right tires then a right turn.
Mudit for doing that it takes extreamly fast reflexes, a great presence of mind and prefrebly rally pedegree.

I have been on that road this saterday, i went till Pondy and due to rains had to return back, My observations

1.The cabs overtake rather dangerously, the driver of my cab was not downshifting and was taking a sharp left dive immediately after overtaking any vehicle

2.The roads were in good condition was covered with a filim of water so aquaplaning was a major concern

3. The curves were rather a surprise with most of the curves having so signs letting the driver know there is a curve ahead

4.Lot of cattle crossing

5. Baricades kept in such places that to avoid hitting them you have to be very skilled and over and above that lucky

6. Now talking about buses, i took a state transport volvo back, This guy was as snorting bull said always at the middle of the road, Narrowly missing oncoming traffic.

7. Was splashing water on all the two wheelers and cars with open windows.

8. Overtaking rather dangerously

I would like to request all of the bhpian heading that way to pay atmost care while driving, this is a perfect highway to hell.

Disclaimer: These are my presonal observations and personal views, anyone not agreeing to these is free to do so

Pramod
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Old 7th December 2010, 11:45   #11
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Great to hear that everyone was fine and good you were wearing seatbelts. I also faced aqua planing, not on a highway but the elevated expressway in bangalore hosur road. Just as you get on the toll road from Hosur side, there are stagnant water on the curb, car was at a good speed and as soon as it hit water there was no feel of the tires, soft braking prevent any mishaps, from that time i learnt a lesson on handling sheet of water on the road, now as aargee said am able to do good speeds in rains on my stock mrf tires.
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Old 7th December 2010, 12:19   #12
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Good to hear that you all are safe after the incident. Must have been very scary especially with your family being involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by muditgrover View Post
1. If your car goes to two wheels; like on left tries, then take a left turn to balance. If on right tires then a right turn.
Mudit : what is the logic behind this manoeuvre?
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Old 7th December 2010, 13:44   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajman28 View Post
Good to hear that you all are safe after the incident. Must have been very scary especially with your family being involved.

Mudit : what is the logic behind this manoeuvre?
Go back to the force chapter of 10th class physics..

Try to remember the 3rd law of motion.
"To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction: or the forces of two bodies on each other are always equal and are directed in opposite directions."

Now, Imagine! a car on two wheels.. assume that the car is stable on right tires. Now think that when you turn the wheel in right direction then the tires will move towards right and like when we accelerate we get a push. The car will also get a push but as there is nothing like seat behind it, the car will be back on 4 tries..

I dont have time to animate things and show but will do soon.

Thanks Newton!

This way we can get the car to the normal state.. You can ask this to any stunt driver. He will answer the same.

Thanks and Regards
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Old 7th December 2010, 14:12   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muditgrover View Post
2. Get wider tires.
Guys, please note: Wider tyres DO NOT work better in rains. The wider tyre will aquaplane more since it will have a tendency to float across the water, rather than cut through it.

Make sure the treads on the tyre are deep enough and channel the water outside. I know a couple of people who put in narrower tyres with deeper treads on their performance cars during the rains.

EDIT:


Quote:
Originally Posted by muditgrover View Post
You can ask this to any stunt driver. He will answer the same.
Ask any offroader, and he will tell you the same! Always steer in the direction of the tilt.

Last edited by Tejas@perioimpl : 7th December 2010 at 14:15. Reason: see edit
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Old 7th December 2010, 14:34   #15
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See the following image sequence of how to steer into the direction of tilt/topple and save yourself.



















Full report here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...rt-pics-6.html (Pune Autocross - 2nd may 2010 Report and Pics)
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