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Old 22nd November 2010, 10:54   #16
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^^ I just can't drive of highways without ORVMS.Why? I always keep watch of vehicles approaching me from a distance, 'judge' their speed using ORVMs and then make the decision to slow down/ speed up / switch lanes. (As I said before, I tilt it in such a way, I can see all 3 lanes in either mirror). The RVM has limited reach as far as distance is concerned and on Freeways, if a car is coming at more than 300-500 meters behind you on side lane, it remains out of your RVM. If anyone is really coming fast form left or right and overtaking you, by the time he comes in your RVM's view, he would be too close and if you decide to switch lane, he could bang into you for sure. Speed can be better judged in ORVMs than the RVM.
Of course, it's all to do with habits.
I developed the habit of watching both ORVMs and if required, only if required, I see the RVM. To me the RVM is basically not as useful as the ORVMs. In fact, I only use it when some moron Honks from too close at my back.
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Old 22nd November 2010, 13:55   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
Considering that I drive on highways most of the time, the ORVMs are not very useful. They produce a smaller image (Objects in the mirror are closer than they are). The blind spots you talk about, left fender, doors, rear fender and right rear fender. I do not drive without atleast a 2 feet gap on the sides. Maybe in city traffic, where you spend more time traveling sideways than forwards, and where clearences are in micrometers, the ORVMs can tell you whether you're going to knock the two-wheeler off or get dented by the bus.
My principle is that if you can see a vehicle clearly in the ORVM, he is too close for comfort.
And no I never fold my ORVMs, they are useful in surreptiously checking out the scenery when parked.;-)
Let me try and put things in better perspective for your benefit, after all we want you and others around you to be safe when in a vehicle.

Think of the ORVMs as monitoring equipment. Just as the various monitors around you in an OT give you a bird's eye view of the various parameters regarding your patient. They don't really show you his/her organs but give you an indication regarding their functioning and an idea of how they are going to cope as one continues, similarly the ORVMs give us a bird's eye view of the traffic behind, including those that we have left behind and those who are going to catch up to us.

Just the way a cautious surgeon would not like to operate without the inputs from various monitors at hand, a knowledgeable driver would not like to drive without actually using the inputs from the ORVMs. In both environments skill is an important virtue and aided with these auxiliary inputs it ensures safety.

Of course one can use the ORVMs only for the scenery just as one could get treated at the hands of a quack
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Old 22nd November 2010, 16:30   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RajaTaurus View Post
Good point here. I have 2 settings - One for city driving and one for highways.

Highway driving: Turn both mirrors inward just to converge at a distance behind me, so I can see a car right behind me at about 200 meters away. This way, I can see all 3 lanes in any one mirror at a time. I don't have to see right side for right lanes and left side for left lanes.
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Excellent point and thank you! I'm going to keep this in mind for the next highway drive. Probably set them out a wee bit wider on the open road.
I am a bit confused here.

First of all, why does one need a separate setting for highways ? Why would the city setting not work on highway ?

The above 2 posts seem to be contradictory. While RajaTaurus has suggested pointing ORVMs slightly more inwards for highway driving, GTO is suggesting to set them wider. Which is correct ?

I can understand pointing them more outwards to get more coverage, but if you are pointing them more inwards, you would just see more of your car in them. I am not getting the point here.

And for spotting a car right behind you, IRVM is always there. Why should you use ORVM for this ?

And what is the point in setting the right and left ORVMs to give you stereo vision of the same area ? It defeats the whole purpose of having 2 mirrors if you are pointing both of them in the same area.

Rohan
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Old 22nd November 2010, 20:16   #19
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Whether it is the city or the highway, I use one setting & that is as follows-

I adjust both ORVMS such that 1/4 part of the image is occupied by my car & the rest is the road. This combo is useful for parking as well as well as city bumper to bumper driving.

I do agree that though, I don't drive with them folded, they are of little use in an Alto or any other similarly sized car. To put things into perspective, the bonnet is almost where my feet are, the right door is where my elbow is, and, while reversing, I can safely go till I can clearly see the reflection/shadow of my reversing light fall on the wall in my IRVM! However, all is different if I get into a Swift/an Ikon, for example.

So, My ritual is folding them in the evening and unfolding & adjusting them in the morning.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 10:23   #20
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@Rohan, here I try to explain:
Highway setting: You look for vehicles coming far away and you want to judge their speed and you are not really interested in the car just behind you. So, If I set the ORVM slightly inward, I can see my left lane, my lane and my right lane too in my left ORVM. Yes, I can see all 3 lanes in that mirror and see different cars coming at different speeds in one mirror. Same if I see on my right ORVM. It helps me in deciding to switch lane / reduce or increase speed / stop or pull over. It also shows me those mavericks driving zigzagging or coming at close to 200 kmph from behind and suddenly show up in my ORVM. (This comes out of 16 years of Kuwait / Saudi highway driving experience over 10 Lakh Kilometers of Odo, without a single incident)
Yes, GTO's comment there is contradicting my setting. As the mirrors are convex, you get enough coverage from distance you don't need to open it wider for seeing distant cars.

City Setting: Now, in cities, I want to see at least 2 lanes next to me, so that I can move over to another lane. Here there is no time to judge any speed and hence I dedicate each side mirror to that side only.
So, Left for left side, right for right side and inside RVM for those right at my back. Hence I turn the mirror as wide as possible, with just the tip of my car's rear light in view.

Last edited by RajaTaurus : 23rd November 2010 at 10:28.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 13:07   #21
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I feel comfortable if I can see the body of my car slightly in both the ORVMs. If you try to adjust your ORVMs such that the scenes that you observe through your rare view mirror and ORVMs don't overlap, the chances of a blind spot close to your vehicle is a possibility. You may miss a two wheeler that is very close to your car's side and may hit it when you try to swerve even slightly. In fact all the user manuals I read so far suggest that you must see your car covering 1/3 of the scene that is visible through your ORVM. Perhaps you can make it 1/4 th or 1/5 th if you travel on three lane roads, but to avoid it altogether is taking risks. No overlapping, if done correctly, and if you are used to it, as advised by some on the net, may give you more coverage but the chances of adjusting incorrectly is more.

I stick to what the user manual says.

Murthy
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Old 23rd November 2010, 16:13   #22
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I drove around for almost 4 years without using ORVMs, but it didn't make much difference since I used to drive an M800 and sometimes a Santro, both of which didn't have many blind spots, and a quick look over my shoulder would give me a good look of what's happening.

But in 2006 I drove a Mondeo on the German autobahns and cities. And there was no way I could have driven that thing without the ORVMs. In fact, I became so dependent on the ORVMs that I realised I was hardly having to look into the IRVM, the ORVMs were providing such excellent coverage of the highway!

Anyway, when I came back to India, I could not do without the ORVMs! So now in any car I drive, I need to have the ORVMs adjusted properly to feel comfortable to drive. In fact, the absence of the left ORVM in cars makes me a bit uncomfortable now since I keep looking into the non-existent mirror for about 15 minutes before I can adjust myself to looking over my shoulder!

The way I adjust my ORVMs is that I like to have the entire length of either side of my car visible at the edge of the ORVM, and the rest is for the road behind. Since my daily drive is an NHC, which sports convex mirrors on both sides and provides pretty decent visibility of what's behind, this setting works pretty well for me. As far as the vertical positioning is concerned, while driving I like to be able to see some part of my rear bumper in my mirrors. I sometimes move the mirror downwards (hail electronic adjustment!) to better gauge the distances while parking in a tight spot.

But all said and done, using ORVMs is a very safe driving practice, especially on our city roads, where bikes, autos, cars and even buses try to overtake in nonexistent spaces, and you can keep a lookout for such morons in your ORVMs to save yourself a lot of trouble.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 18:01   #23
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I have my ORVM adjusted such as that I can see the edge of my car's rear and a generous view of the lanes to my right.

I just had a doubt though : Just as the exterior mirrors say "Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear". Is it the same for the interior mirror too? Because if it is not, someone relying on both mirrors would have a guage the distance between his and the vehicle behind differently based on which mirror he checks!

Also, why : "Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear"?!
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Old 23rd November 2010, 19:00   #24
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The inside rare view mirror is plain mirror and hence the real distance is what you actually see. However in case of ORVMs they are usually convex mirrors. Convex mirrors cover more field of view than plain mirrors. However the disadvantage is "Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear".

I understand in some countries it is mandatory to have plain ORVMs.

Murthy

P.S. Plain mirrors in technical parlance are known as plane (flat) mirrors.

Last edited by gavinimurthy : 23rd November 2010 at 19:07.
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Old 23rd November 2010, 21:54   #25
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Usually a mirror closer to the driver can be plane. In india it would be the RHS mirror, in US it would be LHS mirror. this is because the area covered is the area of the mirror multiplied by (the distance of the object from the mirror/distance of the eye from the mirror).

for a mirror at a distance, the denominator in the above term increases, and area gets really small. that's why the mirrors at a distance have to be convex to get a larger area of vision. the downside is the vision is distorted (fish eye effect), so an object slightly far looks too far in the mirror.

the overhead mirror or the mirror close to the driver are usually plane and need no warning for perspective correction for distance.

Quote:
Also, why : "Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear"?!
without going into optics, you know how reflection of your hand looks abnormally bigger when held closer to a steel glass? because as it gets closer, it gets bigger. i.e. as gets farther, it abnormally smaller, looking much smaller than it actually is. hence appears to be far, while it is closer to you.
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Old 24th November 2010, 10:13   #26
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^^ This is normal in American cars and I have always found it very difficult to use these plain (plane) mirrors as ORVMs. In my Ford Taurus and later Mercury's Grand Marquis (both American), both had plain mirror on my left side and convex on the right. The plain mirror is normally useless and I seldom used it to see. Especially on highways, if I am cruising on middle lane, I normally take a look every few moments on either mirror, to judge my car's position and speed with respect to all other cars coming behind me. In such situations, one plain and one convex mirror always confuse you with regard to distance.
Later when I switched to Camry, and now Cedia, I am very comfortable with both convex mirrors.
As far as I know, its only American cars that have plain mirror on the driver side. German (European) and Japanese cars have both convex mirrors.
It's like American cars don't used to have Yellow Blinkers and their tail red lights do the job of 'blinking' as well.
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Old 24th November 2010, 10:29   #27
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Here's a video on how to adjust the ORVMs.
And there are loads of those in Youtube.!


Last edited by RajaTaurus : 24th November 2010 at 10:32.
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Old 24th November 2010, 12:32   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RajaTaurus View Post
Here's a video on how to adjust the ORVMs.
And there are loads of those in Youtube.!
Good video, thanks for posting. That is what I was referring to in my earlier post when I said 'I adjust the ORVMs so that I see the tip of my car when I tilt my head to either side.
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Old 25th November 2010, 09:48   #29
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Well, I change my ORVM's for both city and Highway driving accordingly as below.

City: Less than 20 % of the mirror is for my car and rest is for others. Also as mentioned by our members, I adjust in such a way that I could easily see the rear bumper if I change my stance slightly, in this setting. This would save my car from scratches in terrifying traffic of Hyd and Pune where two wheelers overtake from both sides of a car, without any warnings.
Long Drives: This setting is done before I touch the highway, just after crossing the city. After so many itteritions of adjustments for best view, I found the 90Deg. position the most beneficial and comfortable. I mean, If we place the ORVM's in 90 deg. / perpendicular position to our car, we can see the most possible area which reduces the blind spots. I tried this in my M800, Santro, Cielo, Ikon and NHC as well.
It covers, atleast one or two lanes sideways depending on the size of the mirror in different cars, covering a very long distance.
Further, this setting is very help full in night driving also, as you will not be dettered with the glare on your eyes. Yes, one thing you will be missing is your rear bumper view. This is not required in highways as the cars are generally not too close for a long time( unlike city traffic) as sharp negotiations are not possible at high speeds, no matter how in-expert the driver is. Hence, we can predict the cars from a longer distance in all the mirrors, i.e IRVM and ORMVs.
But one needs to get used to it as you will miss your car & feel its not attached in the mirror or on the road.
This setting, ofcourse, I found later in one of the America's driving journal for long drives with all the details of blind spots. Will try to fish out that and post it later with the pics.
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Old 25th November 2010, 16:42   #30
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This is a difficult topic,its cannot be generalised.

I would say that the OVRM should have 5-10 view of your cars end which would help you see the blind spot to an extent.

the worst OVRM ive seen till date is Wagon R (pre 2004) and Esteem (even the 2005 ones)

Best ones were ,innova,ikon,Swift and Big ones on the volvo
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