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Old 22nd March 2011, 13:23   #76
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

We are above all, Nirvana seekers for the Self - at the cost of everything else. It's usually "each man for himself and the devil take the hindmost". We see this everywhere, everyday and it seems to have become the new "order" of things!

We tend to even condition children in this way in terms of education and teaching - Right from childhood we are embedded with information about the importance of getting ahead in a highly competitive world, to pretty much the exclusion of all else.
Very little time, if at all, is allocated for the teaching of good manners, politeness, the importance of rules and simple give and take.
Back at home, the same noxious teachings continue - the all important Engineering, Medical or MBA Entrance Exam and how these are the "BEST" possible options in a competitive world where "exam marks" mean everything. The holistic teaching concept is alien to us. We do not therefore produce all rounders at all. And of course, we have our fair share of 'dadagiri', egotism and the sense that some people are more equal than others. Children, who are largely neutral in these attitudes tend to simply emulate or imitate what they see around them - their environment is a major contributor in shaping them for the future. And I submit that our environment here is definitely NOT all it should be.
The contrast between behaviour standards and patterns in the 1970's, 1980's and now is as chalk and cheese!!


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Originally Posted by VJ_MAVRICK View Post
"During my stay in Bangalore I was driving around with a few of my US counterparts and looking at the random offences they commented that I guess everyone here in India only wants to move ahead without due respect to other's time and lives."

Last edited by shankar.balan : 22nd March 2011 at 13:24.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 13:23   #77
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

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Originally Posted by VJ_MAVRICK View Post
... and looking at the random offences they commented that I guess everyone here in India only wants to move ahead without due respect to other's time and lives."

I was speechless but that is a fact and unless people realize it on their own nothing could be done. It is a dream which everyone here will dream on!
Couldn't agree more with the thoughts of yours & your US counterparts. What really messes with my mind is why are so many people turning all the wrong pages while driving. Why are they reckless enough to put their lives in danger?

EDIT: @shankar.balan

What you've written makes lotta sense mate. Life has turned more into a race with no holds barred.

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Old 22nd March 2011, 14:24   #78
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Sir sorry to hear about your relatives. But the whole point of having barricades or ropes or anyother form of physical stopping would be fine for normal vehicles, but what if a emergency vehicle has to pass through? Does it also have to wait in the queue? As in the above accident case, lights and siren on, irrespective of what it was carrying would bring no harm to the emergency vehicle. Do update regarding the verdict of the case, would be interesting to know if an ambulance can be indeed fined or punished even with siren on.
The verdict on this case I am sure will be given in another era!!

An ambulance should not be stopped when on an emergency run. They are permitted to jump signals as well as run on the wrong lane. Same is applicable for fire engines and cop vehicles.

We lodged the case only to bring to justice a few idiots who take the system for a ride. The hospital involved in this case (a very prominent one) sent representatives to apologise accepting their mistake. But this should be a lesson to the others.

Very often we find ambulances jumping signals, but how many of them are genuine cases? Even worse, how do you catch a fake emergency run?

The whole idea of politeness and obeying rules has to be developed in kids as a holistic approach. This is very rightly pointed out by an earlier post in the thread. I feel this is the only way we can stop these petty crimes.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 16:23   #79
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

Quote:
Originally Posted by VJ_MAVRICK View Post
"During my stay in Bangalore I was driving around with a few of my US counterparts and looking at the random offences they commented that I guess everyone here in India only wants to move ahead without due respect to other's time and lives."
So true. Sometimes I just stare at the face of a signal breaker. I try to imagine what is going on in his or her mind. Usually the face will be ultra blank and concentration will be high. Because, in bottom of their hearts, they know that they are doing a wrong thing. Chalta Hai.
And I think, "Where are you going, buddy? Whats your hurry? Do you think the rest are fools and you are the only smart one out there?"

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Right from childhood we are embedded with information about the importance of getting ahead in a highly competitive world, to pretty much the exclusion of all else.
Maybe you are right about this, maybe it is the fallout of the rat race that we all have been brought up with.

Last edited by dot : 22nd March 2011 at 16:24.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 16:32   #80
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

next time you are at an un-manned, signal-less cross roads just stand and observe what happens when there are several vehicles all trying to cross or take a turn onto one of the other roads.

I can say with impunity that 9.75 times out of 10 in the Indian driving scenario, you will see all the vehicles in that situation trying to barge in and take precedence. It wouldnt have even crossed their feeble minds that they might all get to their destinations faster if they simply yielded to traffic as per the right of way and followed the rules.

this type of behaviour is true of autos, taxis, bpo wagons, motorbikes, mopeds, small Ape type trucks, lorries and practically every other vehicle on the road.

the same applies on the morning commute. Absolutely no one is willing to yield to another. if at all possible, people prefer to squeeze into the narrowest gaps in traffic just to get ahead of the other guy. Its quite NUTS!

I am pretty sure this is on account of the rat race! Only thing with the rat race is it doesnt matter whether you win or lose it - you're still a rat either way!


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Maybe you are right about this, maybe it is the fallout of the rat race that we all have been brought up with.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 16:43   #81
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

Looking at how we behave on signals, its clear- we need solid rules in place. I pass by a signal everyday to work and as soon as mine turns green and the running side red, they JUST DO NOT STOP, till we move ahead and literally barge in.
Unless we can enforce it like martial law and fine people big time with penalties that make them think 100 times, there is no solution at all.
Sad that we are clearly the most disrespectful to others when it comes to following rules on the road :(
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Old 22nd March 2011, 16:52   #82
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
I can say with impunity that 9.75 times out of 10 in the Indian driving scenario, you will see all the vehicles in that situation trying to barge in and take precedence. It wouldnt have even crossed their feeble minds that they might all get to their destinations faster if they simply yielded to traffic as per the right of way and followed the rules.

this type of behaviour is true of autos, taxis, bpo wagons, motorbikes, mopeds, small Ape type trucks, lorries and practically every other vehicle on the road.

!
Yes Shankar! You are absolutely right on and honestly we will never be able to achieve that sort of discipline for sure.

There are so many positives that almost every one driving on our roads should emulate but unfortunately it never dawns on anyone which is depressing to say the least.

So to summarize the remedies

1. Barricades (Will Not Work as the "Fill In the Blanks" aka Bikers will have their way out!)
2. Spike Strips (Could be Effective)
3. Fine & Penalty (Well! People do bribe their way out but can have some effect)
4. Point Systems for offences (Am I dreaming ? No way but could be made effective to some extent revoking the licenses but again people do have ways to bribe and carry on.)
5. Inbuilt Chips and Jammers (Practically not feasible in my opinion)
6. Common Sense (Not so Common) & Discipline ( 100% Yes).

One can add on other effective remedies and I will dream on like you folks so that common sense will prevail on traffic offenders .
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Old 22nd March 2011, 16:57   #83
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
next time you are at an un-manned, signal-less cross roads just stand and observe what happens when there are several vehicles all trying to cross or take a turn onto one of the other roads.

I can say with impunity that 9.75 times out of 10 in the Indian driving scenario, you will see all the vehicles in that situation trying to barge in and take precedence.
You are too generous in giving the 9.75 number, it is 10 out of 10.

On a personal note, let me share a story. A large crossing comes on my office commute, the Airport Road -Golf Course crossing. Between 8:30 to 9 a.m. its chaos out there and crossing the intersection is downright dangerous. This happens as the traffic signal is not switched on, therefore naturally, no one is ready to stop. Of course, no one cares about a pedestrian, lets not even go there.
As soon as time reaches 9:00 a.m, the signal is switched on and sanity (whatever that is) returns. So I have deliberately timed my office journey so that I reach the crossing after 9 a.m. It is better to be late than get into a tangle and mess.

I am sure most of us will have similar stories.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 20:30   #84
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

just take time out and remember how our cities were about 20-25 years ago. we had a large number of roundabouts. that was a legacy left behind by the city planners of yesteryears.

now we have precious few roundabouts and this, amongst many other things has bred absolute chaos.

Driving about in developed countries - Europe etc we still find many many roundabouts which make things so very much easier for everyone. In India, what few roundabouts were there, are also getting taken over for someones statue or some other fellow's building construction.

We never leave any margin by the side of any road. We try and construct every available centimetre of space whether it is ours or not. Same goes for residential layouts. How much better planned they would be if each layout had a simple system of roundabouts at every cross roads!!
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Old 22nd March 2011, 22:03   #85
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
now we have precious few roundabouts and this, amongst many other things has bred absolute chaos.
Please sir, come to Gurgaon and check out our roundabouts near the Huda City Center Metro or on the Golf Course road. This should give you a fair idea of the success of roundabouts, when there is no traffic sense!
I am not mocking you, because I have seen the success of roundabouts at various other countries, but it can never be successful with our exemplary road discipline.
The cornerstone for a roundabout to succeed is the concept of "YIELDING". Apparently this is not a concept that Indian Motorists and Bikers are familiar with. Roundabouts rely on the car on the Driver's side getting precedence. Here no one YIELDS, and then you should see classic deadlocks at our Roundabouts.
Trust me, traffic lights are way better.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 22:48   #86
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
just take time out and remember how our cities were about 20-25 years ago. we had a large number of roundabouts. that was a legacy left behind by the city planners of yesteryears.

now we have precious few roundabouts and this, amongst many other things has bred absolute chaos.

Driving about in developed countries - Europe etc we still find many many roundabouts which make things so very much easier for everyone. In India, what few roundabouts were there, are also getting taken over for someones statue or some other fellow's building construction.

We never leave any margin by the side of any road. We try and construct every available centimetre of space whether it is ours or not. Same goes for residential layouts. How much better planned they would be if each layout had a simple system of roundabouts at every cross roads!!
Mysore still has several round-abouts, and the traffic flows seamlessly. On our recent visits to the place, we found road users to be very polite. They give you the right of way most of the time, and follow all traffic rules all the time. Discipline on the roads of Mysore is something I've never seen in Bangalore.

You could attribute that to the number of people and cars in Bangalore, when compared to Mysore. Also, one can say that Mysore is not as fast-paced either.

We could learn a thing or two from our little sister city.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 22:58   #87
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

I was in Bangalore from 96 till 07 except for one year. Don't remember roundabouts, maybe wiped from memory.

Pune had a few nice roundabouts on Airport road. Due to road enhancements during Commonwealth Youth Games, they were demolished. True, roads have become much wider and nicer. But the thing is, the huge intersections has become difficult to navigate through, specially when traffic lights are switched off. Accidents are very common, since everybody and their uncle wants to go at the same time.

Last edited by dot : 22nd March 2011 at 22:59.
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Old 22nd March 2011, 23:22   #88
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

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Originally Posted by dot View Post
I was in Bangalore from 96 till 07 except for one year. Don't remember roundabouts, maybe wiped from memory.

Maybe

Anyway, there are several round-abouts in Bangalore city. There are many in Basavangudi, a few in Banshankari (I think), and one that I go through every day during my daily commute, the one right in front of Lal Bagh South Gate(?)/Double Road.

Traffic isn't too bad around these areas, but it does get messy due to several road users who seem to be in a hurry to get to the lavatory all the time. Especially at the Double Road roundabout.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 06:43   #89
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

yes my friend I agree, roundabouts can only work with some amount of discipline and as you said, yielding to traffic from the right side (if one is driving on the left that is.).
it works beautifully elsewhere in the world.
But here in our country no one follows any sort of rule. I guess any system is as good or as bad as how the public make use of it/ follow it.
in other words we indisciplined Indians can only understand the rule of the danda or stick!!

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Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
Please sir, come to Gurgaon and check out our roundabouts near the Huda City Center Metro or on the Golf Course road. This should give you a fair idea of the success of roundabouts, when there is no traffic sense!
I am not mocking you, because I have seen the success of roundabouts at various other countries, but it can never be successful with our exemplary road discipline.
The cornerstone for a roundabout to succeed is the concept of "YIELDING". Apparently this is not a concept that Indian Motorists and Bikers are familiar with. Roundabouts rely on the car on the Driver's side getting precedence. Here no one YIELDS, and then you should see classic deadlocks at our Roundabouts.
Trust me, traffic lights are way better.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 12:14   #90
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Default Re: A remedy to stop signal jumping

Installing the multi speedbreaker (for lack of a better word), the two-three small ones just before the stop line at intersections would help. Even if the signal is red or green, vehicles with go slow over them. This will provide some degree of right of way at signal less intersection. Also allows pedestrian crossing with relative safety since the vehicles will be at crawl speed.
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