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Old 11th May 2017, 17:35   #1561
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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Also, don't forget, a quarter mile is from a standstill. In this case the car would be turning the corner at 20-60 km/h..
Just FYI: That stretch is actually a climb up from the signal and not exactly a flat.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 12th May 2017 at 15:05. Reason: Trimming quoted post for improved readability :)
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Old 11th May 2017, 19:37   #1562
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Originally Posted by IN07KL0484 View Post
This is precisely what I am aiming for too. Even though in this case no car may have been safe enough, but at the same time, it would be quite interesting to get the facts about G-Class's safety.

I could not find any source which says anything about crash tests conducted on G-Class. End of the day it's a 40-year-old chassis with very high center of gravity. And having good build quality and how the structure behaves under a collision are two different things.

I think it's high time to put this myth of G class to rest! Expert opinions requested.
The 463 chassis on which the present generation G Wagens are based on was introduced in 1989, so its 28 years old and not 40! It had major upgrades done so that the US importer 'Europa' could complete it's U.S. certification. Since then I think Mercedes have been able to bypass Crash tests due to the G wagens low sales volumes.

The production will not end any time soon as the agreement to supply NATO with this antiques runs well into the next decade! These are terrible machines by modern standards as this honest review will confirm:

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...to/first-drive

Ladder frame chassis will struggle to pass most modern Crash tests with a high rating. Even the latest Toyota Hilux manages 3 stars, so something designed 2 decades ago.....one can imagine.

All said and done Mercedes will keep milking the so called 'cool factor' and who can blame them when there are plenty who are willing to pay so much for this.

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Old 11th May 2017, 20:10   #1563
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Kudos Rehaan ,
a true statistical analysis of the situation .
Sad for the loss of public money yet again as pillar has to be redone and of course the poor car (most of us would have to work a life time to afford and maintain one).

Last edited by Akshay1234 : 12th May 2017 at 10:38. Reason: Please stick to english when posting
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Old 12th May 2017, 00:21   #1564
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This is just reiteration of the fact that you can be super good race driver or may be driving one of the sturdiest car with 10 airbags, still, there is something called fate. Sad to see the young lives being lost in this way. My brother never goes beyond 50 kmph in city limits even in empty stretches and I hate that. But may be he is right?!

Last edited by sgmuser : 12th May 2017 at 00:23. Reason: misspelling
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Old 12th May 2017, 05:35   #1565
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Originally Posted by androdev View Post

I honestly feel Mercedes and other premium brands are unsafe in India compared to lesser brands. I say this as an S-class owner and it took me sometime to realise it.

It is all to do with the fact that these premium cars make 120kmph feel like 80kmph. In fact, until wind noise kicks in above 150kmph, you can't judge the speed without looking at the speedo. The survival chances diminish exponentially as the speed climbs above 90 no matter what Mercedes has done to improve safety. I now have actually memorised speed in meters per second. 150kmph = 42 meters per second, just think about it.

So my hypothesis is that by insulating you from feeling the speed, these cars encourage you to drive in 120+ range. Have you ever seen any BMW, Mercedes,etc. on a highway that is doing below 100? They mostly maintain the highest speed possible before the wind noise kicks in, not because they are thrill seekers but the drive feels about right at that speed. These cars are extremely safe upto 80 or so, but as the speed climbs up they are in danger zone just like any other budget car.

Know your speed in meters per second
I'll have to agree with you on this part. I drive an E350 here in the US and regularly drive performance cars back in India. It is quite easy to floor these vehicles and reach silly speeds without actually realizing how fast you're going. I feel that India's infrastructure is largely at fault here. These vehicles are designed to cruise at high speeds all day on the relatively safer and controlled German Autobahn, and not to be driven recklessly on poorly maintained Indian roads.

Hence, when driving any high performance or even remotely luxury car in India, one has to be careful about the accelerator inputs. A small surge of power can result in a huge loss as clearly demonstrated by this particular accident. For people like me who are used to driving within the 70-80 mph speed limit, it is quite tempting to floor such cars when driving in India due to the inherent lack of enforcement of speed limit. However, as rightly said by many on this forum, with huge power, comes huge responsibility. And therefore, one needs to be extremely cautious while driving high performance cars on Indian roads.

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Originally Posted by poised2drive View Post
I have to second this.

20s is rather a dangerous age to be behind the wheel of a monster. I am not generalizing, it is just the Biology !

Irresponsible Exuberance, Lack of a Healthy Fear and Little Experience is a perilous combination on the Roads.

I feel the parents are signing their kids'death warrant by handing over them such humongous machines.

Off the topic, I am a student of Narayana Group.

I read [ in a news paper] the victim was returning from a staff meeting which was held the previous night and since it rained, they had to wait till the wee hours to start.
I blatantly disagree with your naive biological viewpoint. I'm in my early 20s, drive a 'monster' and regularly drive a 911 Turbo to work. However, I have plenty of driving experience on my hand, and do exercise speed limit on public roads, even while driving back in India. And I know a number of people within the similar age bracket who drive monsters (and here I'm talking about cars like GTR/M5/AMG GTS/ Huracan) and yet practice safe driving styles.

On the contrary, I know a fair number of people in their 40s or even 50s, who express total disregard of any sort of limits. I believe it has to do with relative maturity, rather than just age or the number of kilometers clocked.

Last edited by mohaks19 : 12th May 2017 at 05:42.
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Old 12th May 2017, 10:14   #1566
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I find it rather disturbing that some people feel that "these morons deserved this" since they were fined for over-speeding 3 times in this year alone. If you agree with the Indian judicial system, death penalty is only given for "rarest of the rare" case. Criminal, heinous and barbaric acts like the Nirbhaya case are examples where the "morons deserved to die". Over speeding is not "rarest of the rare" case. It is probably "commonest of the common case".

I have 2 speeding fines this year: one on bangalore-hyderabad highway for driving at 95 kmph while speed limit was 80 kmph and another on 2 wheeler for riding at 65 kmph while speed limit was 50 kmph. Do I deserve to die?

Let's be humane enough to feel some sympathy that 2 people with families that loved them, lost their lives. And then let's look objectively at what might have gone wrong (as some bhpians have done with great detail) and what can we learn from this accident to avoid making similar mistakes in the future.
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Old 12th May 2017, 10:42   #1567
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Default Re: Supercar & Import Crashes in India

Yes, such speeds on the road is possible. A few months back I had to eat really late at this subway beside KBR park and during a casual discussion with a police officer, he mentioned that after 11 pm a 5 km radius around that area is very dangerous. He mentioned more about speeding bikes touching 180 kmph plus some times rather than cars.

I had a super scary incident recently after which I tell myself that I need to achieve the best possible mileage and beat the ARAI figures. The result is I am a more calm and composed driver saving some money too in return. Just a distraction or a target to drive properly.

I think the day is not too far where cars will drive themselves, sensors will automatically detect objects and move the car away, road are mapped with maximum speed limits and the vehicle will slow down. Until such day the biggest safety equipment in the car has to be the driver.
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Old 12th May 2017, 10:59   #1568
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Default Re: Supercar & Import Crashes in India

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Originally Posted by poised2drive View Post
20s is rather a dangerous age to be behind the wheel of a monster. I am not generalizing, it is just the Biology !


Quote:
Originally Posted by mohaks19 View Post
I blatantly disagree with your naive biological viewpoint. I'm in my early 20s, drive a 'monster' and regularly drive a 911 Turbo to work.
Driving a Porsche in new York City is a lot different than driving a 500 BHP monster in India. So what you drive in the US is of no significance here.

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Originally Posted by mohaks19 View Post
And I know a number of people within the similar age bracket who drive monsters (and here I'm talking about cars like GTR/M5/AMG GTS/ Huracan) and yet practice safe driving styles.
Its a fact that driving a super car in the west is a lot safer than driving one in India.

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Originally Posted by mohaks19 View Post
On the contrary, I know a fair number of people in their 40s or even 50s, who express total disregard of any sort of limits. I believe it has to do with relative maturity, rather than just age or the number of kilometers clocked.
There are exceptions to all cases. The point is more % of younger people are bound to drive faster and in a reckless manner. Like wise a lesser % of older people will be aggressive drivers.

Last edited by Karthik Chandra : 12th May 2017 at 11:03.
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Old 12th May 2017, 11:06   #1569
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Default Re: Supercar & Import Crashes in India

I'm really appalled by the views of some people here.
C'mon guys they are human beings and they mean something to people at the end of the day.
None of us here have the right to judge them for what they did and call it a fair punishment for speeding.
I mean seriously! People showing remorse for the car not the people in the car!
This is a new low.
Sorry for the harsh words, someone has to make a point!
Mods,I request you to please close this thread.

Last edited by #enzowho : 12th May 2017 at 11:32.
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Old 12th May 2017, 11:31   #1570
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Default Re: Supercar & Import Crashes in India

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Originally Posted by mohaks19 View Post


I blatantly disagree with your naive biological viewpoint. I'm in my early 20s, drive a 'monster' and regularly drive a 911 Turbo to work. However, I have plenty of driving experience on my hand, and do exercise speed limit on public roads, even while driving back in India. And I know a number of people within the similar age bracket who drive monsters (and here I'm talking about cars like GTR/M5/AMG GTS/ Huracan) and yet practice safe driving styles.

On the contrary, I know a fair number of people in their 40s or even 50s, who express total disregard of any sort of limits. I believe it has to do with relative maturity, rather than just age or the number of kilometers clocked.
Well, you are free to disagree !

Nevertheless, I still stick to the biological viewpoint !

As you said, there might be drivers in 20s who could be meticulously careful and drivers in 40s-50s who'd be ridiculously reckless but that would all be anecdotal evidences.

The Youth is quite an age of 'Fire' and as they say, this flame is a two edged sword with which you could either produce light or char yourself.

I had taught students of early youth and I watch them quite closely [ no offense, there could be many others here who'd watch like me] and I witness in them [ and then 'me'] a peculiar nonchalant confidence that borders on recklessness and it especially pops up its head while they are on their bikes/cars.

Call it an influence of films or the age , but I shall always be wary of youngsters behind the wheels.

Last edited by poised2drive : 12th May 2017 at 11:33.
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Old 12th May 2017, 13:09   #1571
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Default Re: Supercar & Import Crashes in India

If anything i think the driver here actually showed a lot of maturity and owned up for his mistake. In the video he has taken a turn, and the he has seen two bikes right in front of him.

Now he knows he is over speeding(And is on fault), and he has two options and a split second to make a decision.

1. Mow down both of them for no fault of theirs, run home tell his parents what he did and then use the judiciary system to his benefit. (Obviously he won't be thinking the latter part, but yes he could have got away, at least for quite a bit of time).

2. Did what he did, save them and hope that the car or a miracle will save him.

He took the second option which, Unfortunately ended up with him losing his life. He actually died doing the right thing, while not hiding behind the wrong he was doing before. If anything that proves

1. He was not drunk, he was able to see this through in a split second.
2. He was not a brat, to take that kind of a decision.

Again i am speculating majority of it, but he did save two lives and paid the price by his own for his own mistake.

May his and his friend soul rest in peace.

Last edited by AtheK : 12th May 2017 at 13:10.
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Old 12th May 2017, 14:10   #1572
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Default Re: Supercar & Import Crashes in India

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Originally Posted by AtheK View Post
If anything i think the driver here actually showed a lot of maturity and owned up for his mistake. In the video he has taken a turn, and the he has seen two bikes right in front of him.

Now he knows he is over speeding(And is on fault), and he has two options and a split second to make a decision.

1. He was not drunk, he was able to see this through in a split second.
2. He was not a brat, to take that kind of a decision.

May his and his friend soul rest in peace.
I don't think people can take such decisions in split seconds. This was just one of those moments when we try to avoid the obvious, hoping that everything will be alright. He was doing more than 100 KMPH(Apparently), he saw bikes, he had few seconds and in those few seconds, he did what anyone would have done - he diverted his vehicle to avoid hitting the bikes and obviously his mind could not process that he will end up hitting the pillar. He was simply too fast for that.
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Old 12th May 2017, 14:12   #1573
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Originally Posted by Engine_Roars View Post
I don't think people can take such decisions in split seconds. This was just one of those moments when we try to avoid the obvious, hoping that everything will be alright. He was doing more than 100 KMPH(Apparently), he saw bikes, he had few seconds and in those few seconds, he did what anyone would have done - he diverted his vehicle to avoid hitting the bikes and obviously his mind could not process that he will end up hitting the pillar. He was simply too fast for that.
Exactly my point he took the conscious decision of saving the bikes, many would have just went ahead with it.

Again, it's all a speculation, but those two bikers are breathing today, and would have been such a tragedy if they paid the price for some one else mistake.
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Old 12th May 2017, 15:00   #1574
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Default Re: Supercar & Import Crashes in India

This is going to go on for ever, or until the mods say enough.

Let me say: No, I do not support the death penalty. No, I do not think that bad drivers deserve to die (except possibly in the most extreme cases where they have caused multiple deaths).

But there is no fate, no bad luck, no just a mistake here: only suicidally bad driving. And, sadly, suicide was the result.

Where's the argument? (I expect people will find one. Or a page or three of them)

We have the CCTV which shows speed that is extreme for the road. Driving at speed where one cannot handle what might might happen is bad driving. It is suicidal.

Moral judgement is a luxury which all of us who got away with whatever mistake we might have made on the roads recently. Wealth and expensive cars tends to spice it up. It might not have been so dramatic, but these deaths could have happened in an Alto.

Mohaks19:
You might be a superbly skilled driver, but it is quite wrong for you to therefore claim that all, or even most, 20-year-olds are good drivers.

I have heard this attitude from the young many. many times. Sorry: it doesn't wash, it is not true, and whatever you think, the world's insurance companies know better. Youth at the wheel, statistically, is dangerous.

.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 12th May 2017 at 15:24.
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Old 12th May 2017, 15:19   #1575
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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
The 463 chassis on which the present generation G Wagens are based on was introduced in 1989, so its 28 years old and not 40! It had major upgrades done so that the US importer 'Europa' could complete it's U.S. certification. Since then I think Mercedes have been able to bypass Crash tests due to the G wagens low sales volumes.

The production will not end any time soon as the agreement to supply NATO with this antiques runs well into the next decade! These are terrible machines by modern standards as this honest review will confirm:

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...to/first-drive

Ladder frame chassis will struggle to pass most modern Crash tests with a high rating. Even the latest Toyota Hilux manages 3 stars, so something designed 2 decades ago.....one can imagine.

All said and done Mercedes will keep milking the so called 'cool factor' and who can blame them when there are plenty who are willing to pay so much for this.

i totally agree, we have one in the family, its one of the worst cars sold today, you cant take one on the highway because you dont get premium fuel outside big cities,( it guzzles!) and if you do brave a long drive, most passengers will likely end up with a backache because of the thin unsupportive seats, especially at the rear.
and its NOT fast enough when you look at how other modern cars are performing, it takes almost 6 seconds to reach 100kmph, about 18 to 200 and top speed is limited to just 210 kmph thanks to the aerodynamics of a brick!

the only thing going for it is that its beautifully built, and i suppose it sells well because those youngsters who lusted for it in the 70s and 80s now are old enough to have the money to buy it.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 12th May 2017 at 15:23. Reason: removing video from quoted post. :)
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