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Old 8th February 2013, 13:01   #136
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Bumping this thread.

Diwali come and long gone. No sign of the 390. Forget the 690.

Any news on it guys?

Its got 44 bhp - that much we know. Any idea about the top speed?

I am reading wildly speculative figures - ranging from a pretty pathetic 160 to a mildly disappointing 170-175 to a generously overgenerous 200 kmph.

Frankly I would be inwardly disappointed with anything lower than 180 - for the kind of power to weight ratio the bike has.

But then I said the same thing about the Duke 200 too (25 bhp, 120 kilos) and was expecting around 145+ - which never happened due to the gearing and the limiter.

So I guess the 390 would follow suit and leave us feeling a little deflated top speed-wise.

Acceleration-wise it would be the cat's whiskers - no doubt about that one!

But I am really looking for a bike as my next bike which can do around 180 tops - so that around 150-160 on open highways like NH4/NH8 etc. should be doable and we can get to the tasty curvy bits quicker by finishing the boring flat bits faster.

As it is, with the Duke 200 topping out at 138 (old ones), the real life upper limit of comfort for the small motor for extended highway running is 110 tops (100 being the sweet spot).

In this band the bike returns between 35 and 30 kmpl, the low fuel light coming on at around 260 kms from tank top-up.
Ditto my requirements. That's why I never bought the D200. I rode it several times before deciding to wait for the D390. The D200 gets me going on the performance front, only to let me left hanging as me move up the speed ladder. It can comfortably hold speeds to 120 (125 max). After that you feel that you're pushing the bike little, and I don't like that.

Going by the above stats, I think we may get the disappointing 160-170 type of top speed (which will be disappointing). A 180 top speed will be ideal A 180 top speeds means that it should be able to hold 140-150 easily (which is what I want). But I have this feeling that we may feel a little short charged on the top speed front again.

As for acceleration, what do you think? 0-100 in 7 second maybe..or even faster?

What does a D690 do for a top speed? I don't think it has a great top end either. Any idea?
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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Looks the same externally.

Friend of mine is thinking of the same. Only he has the Ninja 300 on his radar as well. Any news on that for India?
It won't get the Orange alloys though. Those were for the Milan show.

http://www.ktm.com/in/naked-bike/390...l#.URSkHx03u1M


I sincerely hope that they put in some more differentiating elements compared to the D200. Don't think they will though. A great idea will be to offer opportunity for customers to get the alloys done Orange at dealer itself and the KTM or Akrapovic silencer officially.

PS: In terms of top speed, I think even the current N250 is quite good too, right? 170 something..

Last edited by Abhi_Automobile : 8th February 2013 at 13:07.
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Old 8th February 2013, 14:42   #137
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

The Ninja 250 does 160+. Some riders claim they have pulled it to 165-170, but I would go with the 160 figure (which is plenty for a 250 cc).

The Ninja 300 would be a serious bike. 6 bhp more than the 250, meaning 170-175 becomes a serious possibility.

I agree - the Duke 390 will be geared for gut wrenching acceleration more than flat out top speed. And its a naked, though a ridiculously light one at that. Which means even with 44 bhp, it would be around 170-175 kmph as well - but the difference between this 170-175 and that of the Ninja 300's 170-175 would be

1) It would come up quicker.
2) It would feel more strained.

The 2012 Duke 690 does about 125 mph (200 kmph). 10 kmph short of its twin rival the Ninja 650. But per all testers in the major comparos, a whole lot more fun.

Of course their perspective is fundamentally different to ours.

They are not starved for performance bikes like we are. For their flat out open road kicks they have a choice of bigger faster more efficient machines.

So for them the Duke 690 and the Ninja 650 are mid segment all-rounders. So they go in with different expectations, and want different things from the bike. And there are no prizes for guessing which would be greater whoah-wheee fun - a highly strung Austrian big 72 bhp single or a smooth and efficient Japanese 72 bhp twin.

Coming back to the Duke 390vs the Ninja 300 (if Bajaj offers it soon) - the kicker would be the price and the preference in the kind of bike the rider has.

The Duke 390 by all reports should be around 2.25 lacs OTR. The Ninja 250 is already over 3.5 lacs OTR. So the 300 would be close to 4 lacs (if not more).

That's a very strong argument - all things considered.

@am1m (yes you can call me Doc bro) personally, I would not look beyond these two to the Hondas. But that's only me.

If your budget stretches to 4 lacs, then the Ninja 300 is a serious contender to the Duke 390. No two ways about it. The Ninja will be the better tourer. The Duke will be the better hooligan. Both will be a lot of fun.

Last edited by ebonho : 8th February 2013 at 14:46.
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Old 8th February 2013, 15:34   #138
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
As for acceleration, what do you think? 0-100 in 7 second maybe..or even faster?

PS: In terms of top speed, I think even the current N250 is quite good too, right? 170 something..
0-100 of anything more than 6.5 seconds would be a huge disappointment. N250r already does it in 7.xx seconds.

N250r has a realistic top speed of 150-55 odd with 120-140 cruising speed without crouching. I haven't ever seen 170 on the speedo personally.

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
The 2012 Duke 690 does about 125 mph (200 kmph).
Precisely why I don't think the top speed would be more than 170-175 max for the D390.
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Old 8th February 2013, 15:57   #139
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by niranjanrvce View Post
0-100 of anything more than 6.5 seconds would be a huge disappointment. N250r already does it in 7.xx seconds.

N250r has a realistic top speed of 150-55 odd with 120-140 cruising speed without crouching. I haven't ever seen 170 on the speedo personally.


Precisely why I don't think the top speed would be more than 170-175 max for the D390.
Guys, any guesstimate on the type of acceleration figures we should be expecting fro D390?

I need a F-A-S-T bike will acceptable top speed (170-180ish). Preferably naked.

I line most Naked bikes (ST,Duke,Monster FZ1)
I don't like cruisers apart from HD
I don't like any type of tourers
I only like specific sport bikes (Ducatis )

Last edited by manson : 8th February 2013 at 19:13.
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Old 8th February 2013, 16:28   #140
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by niranjanrvce View Post
0-100 of anything more than 6.5 seconds would be a huge disappointment. N250r already does it in 7.xx seconds.
For some reason the Ninja 250 guys do not race in the cities (Pune perspective). CBR250 guys are more up for the challenge. The Duke 200 is already pretty much up there as the city hooligan. I would not wory too much about the 390.

Quote:
N250r has a realistic top speed of 150-55 odd with 120-140 cruising speed without crouching. I haven't ever seen 170 on the speedo personally.
Thanks for a proper tourer's perspective. The similar corresponding speeds for the Duke 200 (without crouching) are a realistic top speed of 125-130 tops, with 120-125 coming up without much efort or road most times in real life open highway (GQ type) traffic conditions. The theoretical top end of 138 takes a lot of doing and is totally unrealistic and a virtual speed unless you commonly have 1-2 km open stretches and the habit of sleeping on your tank.

Quote:
Precisely why I don't think the top speed would be more than 170-175 max for the D390.
All this talk (and consensus) of 170-175 is making me get dejavu about the 145 discussion pre Duke 200 and I am getting a dirty feeling in the pit of my stomach that the 390 will similarly fall short to just around 165 odd. Hope I am proved very wrong this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
I line most Naked bikes (ST,Duke,Monster FZ1)
I don't like cruisers apart from HD
I don't like any type of tourers
I only like specific sport bikes (Ducatis )
I never got the classification of "tourer" (the other I get) - what is a "tourer" ?

Last edited by ebonho : 8th February 2013 at 16:31.
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Old 8th February 2013, 17:32   #141
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
All this talk (and consensus) of 170-175 is making me get dejavu about the 145 discussion pre Duke 200 and I am getting a dirty feeling in the pit of my stomach that the 390 will similarly fall short to just around 165 odd. Hope I am proved very wrong this time.

I never got the classification of "tourer" (the other I get) - what is a "tourer" ?
http://www.honda2wheelersindia.com/vfr/index.html

This is what I was talking about. Whatever we in the biking fraternity call this. Such type of bikes are different than regular sportbikes (CBR/R1 types). Right? In driving position, power delivery etc.

I am somewhat challenged for my biking know how these days. You can talk about cars as much as you want. That's because I haven't been riding any bike for a number of years now. I don't even have any 'real' bike. All I have is a Bajaj Avenger, which I obviously don't like. I keep hopping between my cars. So, as you can see, I am really waiting to get back to my biking days

I had already resigned to a 160 top speed when you raised the bar by talking about some 180 type speeds. Realistically, I expect no more than 165. However, with all that crap aside, if 390 can do a 140 without breaking a sweat, I'll be good.

Last edited by Abhi_Automobile : 8th February 2013 at 17:33.
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Old 8th February 2013, 18:34   #142
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

The VFRs are sports tourers (STs) bro. Nothing like that in India currently save the CBR 250 to a small extent.

Personally I would like at least a 40 kmph jump in top speed with my next bike (definitely nothing less than 30 kmph).

Have spent most of the past decade in the 120s - now the Duke in the 130s.

Bored.

Need a decent perceptible jump before I jump.

Till then my money stays in my pocket, and my 500 and baby duke 222 in my garage.
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Old 8th February 2013, 18:48   #143
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

The Duke is basically a city bike and therefore they will be tuned for Acceleration rather than top speed.

If you want to take it out of the city, you might want to prepare yourself to be able to change the sprokets (front and back) to i guess something which has less number of teeth (minimalistic modification to gain speed). But then you have to compromise on the acceleration. This could increase your top speed and mileage. Correct me if wrong.
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Old 8th February 2013, 19:17   #144
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
The Duke 200 is already pretty much up there as the city hooligan. I would not wory too much about the 390.
The theoretical top end of 138 takes a lot of doing and is totally unrealistic
Oh I agree the D200 is perfect for the city - I always take lesser time on the Duke than the Ninja when within the city. I just hope the D390 blows both of them away or my urge to trade in one of them will be very little.

Quote:
Personally I would like at least a 40 kmph jump in top speed with my next bike (definitely nothing less than 30 kmph).
Exactly my state. But so little options if you don't want the N650 and don't want to risk Korean bikes. Remains to be seen what KTM can give us.
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Old 8th February 2013, 19:25   #145
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

175 kmph+ on Indian highways? My god, what are you guys on? I shudder to hit those speeds in a car. With those speeds on a motorbike - anything that crashes into you will be vaporized in an instant - you included.

IF you guy are ON something, do pass it out here.
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Old 8th February 2013, 20:01   #146
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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175 kmph+ on Indian highways? My god, what are you guys on? I shudder to hit those speeds in a car. With those speeds on a motorbike - anything that crashes into you will be vaporized in an instant - you included.

IF you guy are ON something, do pass it out here.
LOL 175 kmph top speed ability does not mean your right wrist is jammed in a tetanic spasm with the throttle wide open.

There are tons of superbikes here that can do 270-290. Most of them normally ride at 150-160, with some excursions north of 200 when the chance presents itself.
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Old 8th February 2013, 20:21   #147
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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LOL 175 kmph top speed ability does not mean your right wrist is jammed in a tetanic spasm with the throttle wide open.

There are tons of superbikes here that can do 270-290. Most of them normally ride at 150-160, with some excursions north of 200 when the chance presents itself.
Unfortunately, in that split instant when a cow meanders onto the roads - thats exactly where your right wrist is - jammed with a capital J.

India is not good for speeds over 100 or 120. Our response time is just too darn slow at speeds higher than that. Coupled with the rider having zilch impact protection...

Ofcourse, the thrill of riding at 175 kmph is brilliant, and i would love to try it out every once in a while too, so having a bike with that kind of a figure is quite welcome.

Wonder what our roads will become like with a mass manufactured 175 kmph top whack bike at the hands of most toms. Our non existent roads and non existent ethics on them doesn't deserve a bike with a top whack of 175kmph. But we're getting into unnecessary territory, and I am sorry to have brought it up here.

That said, this is such a beautiful bike to be had. A friend who runs a premier bike touring shop in Bangalore (you know him ;-) said he was going to absolutely switch his fleet over to these babies as soon as they launch.
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Old 8th February 2013, 20:30   #148
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

I was wondring if I knew you from somewhere else. Guess I do. Just not who.

Last edited by ebonho : 8th February 2013 at 20:32.
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Old 8th February 2013, 20:53   #149
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Unfortunately, in that split instant when a cow meanders onto the roads - thats exactly where your right wrist is - jammed with a capital J.
Sobering thought, thank you for bringing that up. Safety is always a good thing to think about, and be reminded about, in whichever thread.

Personally, my desire for a higher top speed is just for the thrill of being able to touch it once in a rare while, after getting throughly used to the bike first, and in safe conditions. Perhaps even a track day, fully geared up.

And in a real-world scenario, having a bike that can do a higher top speed basically means the comfortable highway cruise speed also becomes faster, without straining the bike.
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Old 11th February 2013, 15:57   #150
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

Re-bumping!

Coming back to the 390 and likely options/alternatives to it.

The Ninja 300 (if launched) is the likely competition. As well as the Honda CB500s.

The Ninja 300 is 39 bhp, the CB500 would be around 48 bhp. At 44 bhp, the Duke would split the two (as welll as being a single to the other's twins).

The Ninja would weigh around 175 kilos, the CB500s around 200 kilos. The Duke would weigh just 140 kilos.

The Ninja would have a tank range of around 350 kms, the CB500 with its 17+ liter fuel tank would have a 450 km range, while the miserly 11 liter tank of the Duke 390 would mean a tank range of just about 225 kms.

This aspect should definitely be addressed by Bajaj-KTM. 225-250 kms tank range is really pathetic. Anything less than 400 kms to a tankful is very poor for a bike used for touring - as many 390s will be. This one factor if taken care of will ensure the Duke kills the other two on price, everything else being near equal.

Top speed wise, the Ninja would be the fastest at around 180 kmph, with the Hondas slower by around 10 kmph at 170 kmph, with the Duke somewhere in between at 175 kmph.

But the characters of each motor will be completely different. The Ninja being peaky, the Hondas languid and linear, while the Duke will have the best low end grunt and acceleration but be most vibey at WOT.

Now the price wars (all prices based on Pound Sterling prices abroad - Indian prices could and will well be different).

The Ninja ABS is the most expensive retailing for 5200 pounds, the CB500X/CBR500R are cheaper at around 5000 pounds, while the Duke 390 is the most bang for buck at 4500 pounds.

In Indian terms, the Ninja 300 would be around 4 lacs, the Hondas also 3.5-4 lacs, while the Duke would be around 2.2 lacs.

Last edited by ebonho : 11th February 2013 at 16:26.
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