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Old 24th August 2012, 17:48   #61
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
On topic, the news is that the 390 thing is unconfirmed .... its still being referred to internally as the 350. And this is the disappointing bit - its absolutely confirmed a street bike that "looks very close to the Duke 125/200." With alloys. :(

The 350 will come first. That is also confirmed.

The 690 is some way away. And will be a Duke.

The company guys have had a lot of discussions on enduro/motard, but they do not see the numbers happening, and hence street is the way will be going initially at least. No one knows what will or can happen later.

Tight lips on engine specs and price obviously.
Sorry lost a lil in the slightly wordy conversation. You seem to have gotten the info that it looks similar to the Duke 200 with a 350 cc engine. What did the 'with alloys' thingy mean? These bikes have proper alloys anyway :(

I found the 690 ok-ish looking anyway. I think it looks decent, but not great (for its segment). On the other hand, the Duke200 looks great (again for its segment). If they can come up with a (significantly)beefier looking Duke 200 (in the 350 guise), I will not be very disappointed. Having said that, its always great to have a distinctive looking bike so that everybody knows what you are riding.
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Old 24th August 2012, 17:59   #62
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
Sorry lost a lil in the slightly wordy conversation. You seem to have gotten the info that it looks similar to the Duke 200 with a 350 cc engine. What did the 'with alloys' thingy mean? These bikes have proper alloys anyway :(

I found the 690 ok-ish looking anyway. I think it looks decent, but not great (for its segment). On the other hand, the Duke200 looks great (again for its segment). If they can come up with a (significantly)beefier looking Duke 200 (in the 350 guise), I will not be very disappointed. Having said that, its always great to have a distinctive looking bike so that everybody knows what you are riding.
I basically meant the 350 platform is pretty similar (if not the same chasis) as the 200. And that basically it will be a pure street bike (no raised front mudguard, no belly pan, no longer travel suspension, no flattened single seat platform, and definitely no pricey KTM patented leak-free spoken rims with tubeless radials). The alloys are not as strong or punishment-soaking as a spoken wheel.

As an aside, these patented spoked rims cost 500 dollars a piece.

The entire laced wheel with hub and spokes costs upwards of a 1000 dollars.

Thats about 60,000 Indian rupees per wheel.

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The 690 was always going to be the same Duke platform selling internationally.

The 350 is a brand new bike.

Last edited by ebonho : 24th August 2012 at 18:05.
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Old 28th August 2012, 01:01   #63
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

Update:

1: BAL will start testing KTM 350 from October.
2: I might be one of the few who will get to ride it during testing. Fingers crossed.
3: Pricing would be killer
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Old 28th August 2012, 01:12   #64
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by pratheekkunder View Post
Update:

1: BAL will start testing KTM 350 from October.
2: I might be one of the few who will get to ride it during testing. Fingers crossed.
3: Pricing would be killer
If true, you'll be a much sought after guy
Have been intimated or given an invitation already? You can choose to not reply Any more 'definitive' info of what 'killer' may be?
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Old 28th August 2012, 05:23   #65
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
If true, you'll be a much sought after guy
Have been intimated or given an invitation already? You can choose to not reply Any more 'definitive' info of what 'killer' may be?
I have been intimated.
Also, pricing would be at sub 3 lacs mark which is a bangon
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Old 28th August 2012, 12:43   #66
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

Quote:
Update:

1: BAL will start testing KTM 350 from October.
2: I might be one of the few who will get to ride it during testing. Fingers crossed.
3: Pricing would be killer


Was almost on the verge of giving-up my hope of 350 and booking a 200. This is really a good news and i shall extend my wait for the 350/375/390.


Quote:
I have been intimated.
Also, pricing would be at sub 3 lacs mark which is a bangon
I heard the 350 was just to be a ported version of 200 with minor alterations to support the expansion, keeping the frame, body etc same. Therefore i was expecting it to be around 2L region given that the 200 retails at 1.4L.

3L approx is cost of 2Xduke200. So are we in for some surprises w.r.t the package to justify the cost?? I really hope so.

Last edited by nasirkaka : 28th August 2012 at 12:44.
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Old 28th August 2012, 14:17   #67
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
I heard the 350 was just to be a ported version of 200 with minor alterations to support the expansion, keeping the frame, body etc same. Therefore i was expecting it to be around 2L region given that the 200 retails at 1.4L.

3L approx is cost of 2Xduke200. So are we in for some surprises w.r.t the package to justify the cost?? I really hope so.
I agree about a band close to 3L being different to all indications I have gotten up until now. 2L or thereabouts is what I have heard too.

If its close to the 3L mark I would rather wait, spend more, and get the 690.

That said, its the 200 which is a big bore-d 125. Stretching that block all the way to 350 cc (x 3 times the original displacement) is an engineering feat not even KTM could manage frankly.
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Old 28th August 2012, 15:13   #68
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I agree about a band close to 3L being different to all indications I have gotten up until now. 2L or thereabouts is what I have heard too.

If its close to the 3L mark I would rather wait, spend more, and get the 690.

That said, its the 200 which is a big bore-d 125. Stretching that block all the way to 350 cc (x 3 times the original displacement) is an engineering feat not even KTM could manage frankly.
+1 to that. I simply wouldn't buy it at close to 3 lacs. Buyers like me will either settle for the lesser capacity (but equally exciting) 200 or stretch my budget to accommodate 690.

Either way, I don't expect it to sell much@3 lacs. I am expecting pricing around 2 lacs (maybe even sub 2 lakhs) too. Look at it, why not? If they can price a completely 'in house' made Duke 200 @ 1.2 lacs ex showroom, why can't they price a slightly bigger engined (but not substantially bigger in size) 'completely 'in house' made Duke350 @1.8-2 lacs. In all probability. it should be financially possible. Whether they do it or not, is a commercial decision.

Last edited by Abhi_Automobile : 28th August 2012 at 15:19.
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Old 28th August 2012, 21:36   #69
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post

Was almost on the verge of giving-up my hope of 350 and booking a 200. This is really a good news and i shall extend my wait for the 350/375/390.


I heard the 350 was just to be a ported version of 200 with minor alterations to support the expansion, keeping the frame, body etc same. Therefore i was expecting it to be around 2L region given that the 200 retails at 1.4L.

3L approx is cost of 2Xduke200. So are we in for some surprises w.r.t the package to justify the cost?? I really hope so.
As far as i know, KTM350 will be developed on a completely new platform.And that is why the price will be around 3 lacs mark.

Also, i still remember Rajiv Bajaj had shown a power point presentation of the Pulsar and KTM future journey during P200NS launch last Jan. Well, all the images where put up of the bike which are already in market but just below the "2013 Launch" there was the image of the bike blackened out.The build didnt look like a 200 CC not like a 690 cc. One can say, that was the 350. I will try to check if i have that picture in my DSLR.Will put it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I agree about a band close to 3L being different to all indications I have gotten up until now. 2L or thereabouts is what I have heard too.

If its close to the 3L mark I would rather wait, spend more, and get the 690.

That said, its the 200 which is a big bore-d 125. Stretching that block all the way to 350 cc (x 3 times the original displacement) is an engineering feat not even KTM could manage frankly.
My 2 cents

BAL is known for pricing their products competitively making it most value for money. If we see below, they have tried to price most of their products just below the "next" lac. As an Indian Buyer, if we see the price of a product for the first time, it just gets saved in our memory. For eg, if i read Bajaj launched Ninja650 r for 4.99 lacs.The impact would be different if i read 5.09 lacs mark.

KTM 690 as far my source say, would be priced at sub 6 lacs mark. In this case, BAL would price KTM 350 somewhere around 2.75-3.50 lacs mark.It would make sense as i remember Mr. Bajaj telling me P350 will follow KTM350.So P350 has to be priced lower at around 2-2.50 lacs.They cannot price if above this as it would try to take on the Ninja250R market which is an important BALs sales area.At the same time, BAL cannot price KTM350 above 4 lacs mark as that would hamper Ninja 650R's market.

Bajaj Pulsar 200NS: 86 k ex showrrom price
KTM Duke 200: 1.17 lacs ex showroom price
Kawasaki Ninja 250r 2.70 lacs ex showroom price
Kawasaki Ninja 650r 4.99 lacs ex showroom price

Below predicted price is a result of some research and news from sources.

KTM 350:2.75-3.50 lacs
Pulsar 350:2-2.50 lacs
KTM 690:6 lacs

But i am happy, that BAL has some superb future plan in place and i am happy i am going to be a part of it.

PS: KTM is a premium product of Bajaj.They would like to have some kind of exclusivity as well.

Last edited by pratheekkunder : 28th August 2012 at 21:38. Reason: added more details
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Old 29th August 2012, 01:00   #70
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

Quote:
Originally Posted by pratheekkunder View Post

Below predicted price is a result of some research and news from sources.

KTM 350:2.75-3.50 lacs
Pulsar 350:2-2.50 lacs
KTM 690:6 lacs

But i am happy, that BAL has some superb future plan in place and i am happy i am going to be a part of it.

PS: KTM is a premium product of Bajaj.They would like to have some kind of exclusivity as well.
I, for one, am not very happy with what is being discussed here. As per the above research/analysis/info (whatever it is), I see both KTM350 and KTM690 as overpriced products. Even if they want to be ambitious with the price, they should look at pricing the KTM 350@ 2.5 lacs and KTM 690@ 4.5 lacs respectively. Anything more will be stretching it.

And why should the Duke 690 from a company in which they have largest share cost more than a CKD from a company which is just their 'business partner' (N650) I see a lot of people lining up Ducati Monster and Triumph Street Triple if the 690 comes at that price. Oh, they have Harley to contain as well (HD is not a direct competitor but at a similar price point).

I very strongly believe that in India shopping is governed by what range of products you can afford rather than what type of products do you like. For e.g I see most folks ready to consider a range of products within their stipulated budget. One of my friend is in the market and he wants to buy the best bike within 2 lacs. he doesn't know which will turn out to be the best bike for him. I think with the options increasing, there will a lot of
cross shopping' between different type of product lines. Thus, I believe giving your product a pricing edge is also very important.
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Old 29th August 2012, 01:43   #71
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
I, for one, am not very happy with what is being discussed here. As per the above research/analysis/info (whatever it is), I see both KTM350 and KTM690 as overpriced products. Even if they want to be ambitious with the price, they should look at pricing the KTM 350@ 2.5 lacs and KTM 690@ 4.5 lacs respectively. Anything more will be stretching it.

And why should the Duke 690 from a company in which they have largest share cost more than a CKD from a company which is just their 'business partner' (N650) I see a lot of people lining up Ducati Monster and Triumph Street Triple if the 690 comes at that price. Oh, they have Harley to contain as well (HD is not a direct competitor but at a similar price point).

I very strongly believe that in India shopping is governed by what range of products you can afford rather than what type of products do you like. For e.g I see most folks ready to consider a range of products within their stipulated budget. One of my friend is in the market and he wants to buy the best bike within 2 lacs. he doesn't know which will turn out to be the best bike for him. I think with the options increasing, there will a lot of
cross shopping' between different type of product lines. Thus, I believe giving your product a pricing edge is also very important.
I completely agree what you are saying. But again as i mentioned above, Bajaj wants KTM to be as premium as possible. That's why BAL hasn't gone for more than 50 % share. Pricing in India of KTM brand would in-directly reflect prices in other Asian Market.

BAL is known for its superb pricing.With Pulsars, they showed our country the kind of motorcycle they developed with such a reasonable pricing.
KTM is the highest selling motorcycle in Europe and thats their image. They might want to keep that image with asian countries by not selling KTM bikes cheaply.
Rajiv Bajaj and his team, when they meet for pricing a product, they have to make sure the pricing wont affect other products of theirs.
If you think, KTM 350 and KTM690 will be expensive, wait till KTM990 comes.Its going to cost a Bomb(As my friend said, she is a beauty when he saw a 990 at their Chakan plant)
Cheers!
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Old 29th August 2012, 02:13   #72
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by pratheekkunder View Post
I completely agree what you are saying. But again as i mentioned above, Bajaj wants KTM to be as premium as possible. That's why BAL hasn't gone for more than 50 % share. Pricing in India of KTM brand would in-directly reflect prices in other Asian Market.

BAL is known for its superb pricing.With Pulsars, they showed our country the kind of motorcycle they developed with such a reasonable pricing.
KTM is the highest selling motorcycle in Europe and thats their image. They might want to keep that image with asian countries by not selling KTM bikes cheaply.
Rajiv Bajaj and his team, when they meet for pricing a product, they have to make sure the pricing wont affect other products of theirs.
If you think, KTM 350 and KTM690 will be expensive, wait till KTM990 comes.Its going to cost a Bomb(As my friend said, she is a beauty when he saw a 990 at their Chakan plant)
Cheers!
I got to disagree with you on that one. Pricing for India need not always dictate the pricing in the other key Asian market. The KTM Duke 200 is a pricey product in Malaysia, where it was recently launched. In Europe, it retails just a shade under N250R and at par with Honda CBR250R. But in India, it's way cheaper than CBR250R, coz its manufactured here. The KZTM Duke 350 will be manufacture din India too. I see no reason why it should be priced at the prices suggested. Other than 'deliberate premium positioning'. But I think Bajaj knows their game. They won't price it out of market so as they don't get any real volumes.
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Old 29th August 2012, 10:53   #73
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

I must admit my thinking (OT: I have an MBA in Marketing along with my Medical degrees incidentally ) is more in line with what Abhi_automobile is saying.

Yes KTM will command a premium over Bajaj's homegrown efforts, but if the Duke 200 vs NS 200 pricing (30K differential) is an importand precedent trend, looked at against the background of the international price differential of just 3-400 dollars between the 125 and the 200, then I must believe that the 350 will be in the 2 to just a shade over 2 bracket - maybe a Lac markup over the 200.

Anything more and Bajaj moves into N250 territory.

Remember, KTM sales goes directly to Bajaj's bottom line.

While N250 and N650 sales are more a tech licensing-for-market access agreement with Kawasaki, with significantly smaller margins for Bajaj.
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Old 29th August 2012, 11:05   #74
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
I got to disagree with you on that one. Pricing for India need not always dictate the pricing in the other key Asian market. The KTM Duke 200 is a pricey product in Malaysia, where it was recently launched. In Europe, it retails just a shade under N250R and at par with Honda CBR250R. But in India, it's way cheaper than CBR250R, coz its manufactured here. The KZTM Duke 350 will be manufacture din India too. I see no reason why it should be priced at the prices suggested. Other than 'deliberate premium positioning'. But I think Bajaj knows their game. They won't price it out of market so as they don't get any real volumes.
There is no way Bajaj will let KTM cannibalize sales of Pulsar or Ninja or any other Bajaj bike in general. I think they will be a price band very similar to what @pratheekkunder has suggested. The pricing comparison against Europe or any place outside India does not really matter. They are trying to cover the entire spectrum from 50K to 10L
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Old 29th August 2012, 12:04   #75
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Default Re: *Strong Rumour* : KTM Duke 690 around Diwali

If bajaj wanted premium price , they could have easily put a price tag of 1.5 L ex-showroom for KTM 200 and still could have managed enough numbers .

The way they priced it sweetly at 1.17 ex showroom , they want to make profit and the same time want enough people to afford it and at the same time grab the market share .

690 at > 6 lakhs does not sound possible, it will be under N650 price . Around 4 lakhs .

Last edited by black12rr : 29th August 2012 at 12:09.
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