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Old 21st April 2014, 18:08   #346
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Default Re: I just got Har-Ley'd! My Iron 883

So you finally upgraded the exhausts. Checked out your video and these V&H slip-ons look great. They look exactly the 2013 SE Slip-ons and sound just about quite similar to me too. The 2014 model SE slip-ons just don't look right to me with those end plates et al.

Also you have taken the plunge for the SE Phat wires and I presume the spark plugs too. Don't the spark plug cover also come in Orange? Black looks out of place now. Also I see the routing has not been done properly and left exposed and visible above the air filter. I was speaking to the Harley Service Technician yesterday accompanying us on our Nainital Ride and he had explained to me that it needed to be routed inside the plastic cover below the fuel tank. Shatre your experience about the performance if you have felt any change in that.

Your Derby cover looks fantastic. Is it a stickering job? Also could you share the cost and other details.

Once again Congrats on the V&H and on your bike sounding like a propha Harley...
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Old 21st April 2014, 19:25   #347
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Default Re: I just got Har-Ley'd! My Iron 883

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
So you finally upgraded the exhausts. Checked out your video and these V&H slip-ons look great. They look exactly the 2013 SE Slip-ons and sound just about quite similar to me too. The 2014 model SE slip-ons just don't look right to me with those end plates et al.

Also you have taken the plunge for the SE Phat wires and I presume the spark plugs too. Don't the spark plug cover also come in Orange? Black looks out of place now. Also I see the routing has not been done properly and left exposed and visible above the air filter. I was speaking to the Harley Service Technician yesterday accompanying us on our Nainital Ride and he had explained to me that it needed to be routed inside the plastic cover below the fuel tank. Shatre your experience about the performance if you have felt any change in that.

Your Derby cover looks fantastic. Is it a stickering job? Also could you share the cost and other details.

Once again Congrats on the V&H and on your bike sounding like a propha Harley...
Thanks Dhiraj!

Even I thought the spark plug wires were a little twisted. it looked the same on another bike which underwent a similar transformation.

Spark plug covers - do they come in Orange? Come to think of it, all Orange might look a little too garish (my personal thoughts)

Did you say visible over the air filter? Air filter is on the opposite side, aint it?

Derby cover - It'd be foolish to just paint that or even think of putting a sticker on that - given the temperatures it goes up to. Its a powder coating job with Gas infusion painting. I got this stuff from the US.

HERE is the link from where I got this. Tusker Harley guys were impressed with the job. They had no doubts about this holding out functionally except for riding shoes rubbing on it.
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Old 21st April 2014, 19:32   #348
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Default Re: I just got Har-Ley'd! My Iron 883

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Originally Posted by Shubz View Post
Did you say visible over the air filter? Air filter is on the opposite side, aint it?
This the picture is which Dhiraj was referring to

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Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram
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Old 21st April 2014, 19:37   #349
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Default Re: I just got Har-Ley'd! My Iron 883

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Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
This the picture is which Dhiraj was referring to

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram

Thanks Ram sir. Yeah this is something workable I guess. Next time I am there, will see if this can be tucked away from view. Good point Dhiraj!
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Old 21st April 2014, 19:39   #350
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Default Re: I just got Har-Ley'd! My Iron 883

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Dustom sir,

1 question - do you think I am on the right path as far as performance upgrades are concerned?

My primary concern now is - I am running a bit lean. Is that ok for now? Anything I should watch for?

I was considering (remotely) - to go for XiEd's to compensate for running lean. Your recommendations?


2nd - PV - I don't think HD will supply me with that. now, I am partially on my own, with HD service support of course since they fitted this on. If I go the PV way - I will be literally left on my own.
Every Harley that is manufactured goes into some kind of Modification atleast once in its lifetime. Harley guys know it very well that people will use all kind of after market parts , even on power unit.
Most people think that ecm will adapt to changes and will alter fueling based on o2 sensors, However it is only partly correct. stock Narrow band sensors provide usable input to ecu for only a very limited conditions & AFR ( Thats the only reason Wide band O2 sensors are SOLD in market). Stock ECM is programmed to Ignore any input from stock sensors except which falls within range of 14.3 - 15.1 AFR ( Sensor voltage 450mv = 14.64 AFR) .

Also Stock 883 MAP ( At least my Stock MAP) is set to maintain 14.64AFR for most of the Normal conditions like Light load , low throttle , low Engine temp etc , largely normal cruising!
14.64 is already a very lean number and is used only when one wants best possible fuel economy. For high Power and torque -AFR of 12.4 - 13.3 is recommended .

Changing Exhaust or Intake or both will send in more air, leaning the mixture further , ECU will try to adjust but only for regions where despite the mod , the flow change AFR is still below 15:1.
Only For that region ECU will try to bring it back to 14.64(Which already is LEAN).
Typically with Only Exhaust change ( V&H SHort Shots) O2 Sensor will still give sensible input to ECM between 1500rpm to 3800rpm (AC Filter condition and IAT will matter as well). Thats the normal Cruising RPM. Rest every where else bike will run Lean and ECU will ignore the O2 signal. ECU will keep pumping same quantity of fuel which it was pumping without mod.

But harley ecm has other Engine management strategies as well .
Like Spark color correction , Advance & retard based on ThrottlePos and AFR and ENGINE Temp and Incoming AIr TEMP as well ( with Acceleration / deceleration spark management being different altogether), EITMS , Spark SKIP , and most important being Engine Temp management which takes both Head temp and core engine temp into account!

Running lean makes you run Hotter , but with built in Temp management , you are good to go

SO you are pretty safe with Exhaust change although your bike will not gain all that it can from after market Exhaust.

Harleys get away with all sort of mods without ECU remap because of these .


Xieds or whatever they are called are pretty stupid! My frd from dehradun has changed from Xieds to PC5 to SERT within 2 years . He always had his bike running rough and knocking at high temps!

I advice you to go fro SEPRT or PV , even if that means you have to wait 6months or whatever.

i have only modded mufflers and my Volumetric efficiency of engine is as much as 30% more than what stock map had ( only around 2.2k rpm, rest of the places there is gain but less than 30%) . 30% more VE means I am getting soo much air , but need to add fuel to it to make use of it pic of Stock map VS Improved map.
Also take a look at the graphs , By the time my Throttle has reached 54% , MAP has already reached its nearly max Stored value. I can get lot of benefit from a free flow AC. Post 54% of Throttle opening My AC is not able to supply any more AIR at that RPM.
I guess proper Fuel with 12.6AFR and good flow from AC to Exhaust will will put my torque well into 80ies and max power into mid to late fifties easily.

Harley Under tunes bikes to meet Pollution norms , specially Sound and engine life management.
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Old 21st April 2014, 23:31   #351
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Default Re: I just got Har-Ley'd! My Iron 883

Man that was real hard core stuff, wonder if I'll ever be able to understand all this but hats off to you guys. Feel proud to be part of this group as today I finally got the delivery of my Iron 883. Rode back home about 40 kms of peek office hour traffic but still enjoyed it. The other vehicle I drive is Volvo XC 60 so I'm quite use to getting attention on the road but this was different as the people who are looking at you are at the arms length. One guy even inquired about the price I paid for it.
My experience in riding is only limited to Yamaha Rx100 and has been out of touch for more than 10 years now but still I felt very comfortable riding this beauty. My humble request to all you senior guys, please give me your precious advice on things I should be knowing specifically for this bike and riding in general. Thanks for all the help.
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Old 22nd April 2014, 11:23   #352
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Default Re: I just got Har-Ley'd! My Iron 883

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Man that was real hard core stuff, wonder if I'll ever be able to understand all this but hats off to you guys. Feel proud to be part of this group as today I finally got the delivery of my Iron 883. Rode back home about 40 kms of peek office hour traffic but still enjoyed it. The other vehicle I drive is Volvo XC 60 so I'm quite use to getting attention on the road but this was different as the people who are looking at you are at the arms length. One guy even inquired about the price I paid for it.
My experience in riding is only limited to Yamaha Rx100 and has been out of touch for more than 10 years now but still I felt very comfortable riding this beauty. My humble request to all you senior guys, please give me your precious advice on things I should be knowing specifically for this bike and riding in general. Thanks for all the help.
Ask and thou shalt get!

Jokes aside,

Welcome to the family! No senior wenior business here. But we all would be glad to help you with whatever we know.

Please feel free to ask. and We'd be more than glad to help!

Do open up an ownership thread and post pictures/experiences at the dealer/buying experience/likes/dislikes/accessories opted for etc. Would love to know it all.
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Old 22nd April 2014, 13:48   #353
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Default Re: I just got Har-Ley'd! My Iron 883

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Originally Posted by see India View Post
Man that was real hard core stuff, wonder if I'll ever be able to understand all this but hats off to you guys. Feel proud to be part of this group as today I finally got the delivery of my Iron 883. Rode back home about 40 kms of peek office hour traffic but still enjoyed it. The other vehicle I drive is Volvo XC 60 so I'm quite use to getting attention on the road but this was different as the people who are looking at you are at the arms length. One guy even inquired about the price I paid for it.
My experience in riding is only limited to Yamaha Rx100 and has been out of touch for more than 10 years now but still I felt very comfortable riding this beauty. My humble request to all you senior guys, please give me your precious advice on things I should be knowing specifically for this bike and riding in general. Thanks for all the help.
Welcome to the brotherhood and congratulations! Hope to see you on the one of the Sunday breakfast HOG rides and as Shubz said, do open an ownership thread.

One thing that you will need to get used to is "aapki light jal rahi hai" at traffic lights! In fact today morning while riding to work when I replied to a biker on my left that "light saara time jalti sir, thank you", he said, "arrey kharab hai kya"
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Old 22nd April 2014, 14:02   #354
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Default Re: I just got Har-Ley'd! My Iron 883

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Welcome to the brotherhood and congratulations! Hope to see you on the one of the Sunday breakfast HOG rides and as Shubz said, do open an ownership thread.

One thing that you will need to get used to is "aapki light jal rahi hai" at traffic lights! In fact today morning while riding to work when I replied to a biker on my left that "light saara time jalti sir, thank you", he said, "arrey kharab hai kya"
In Pune unsolicitedly overhelpful junta from the front signals that your light is on with what can only be decribed as a pretty obscene gesture (yes my mind is in the gutter .....).

After years of exasperation, my final solution is to give them a very elbaorate and theatrical thumbs up of assent.

If they kep doing the obscene gesture, I keep giving the thumbs up, till we pass each other. I even add the "Indian bobble/headshake" for added effect ......

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Old 22nd April 2014, 14:21   #355
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Same here ebonho, the constant obscene gesturing is what I've got used to and respond to them by giving a thumbs up.

Today morning's 'kharab hai kya' was the first such comment and had me in splits!


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Old 22nd April 2014, 14:28   #356
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Today morning's 'kharab hai kya' was the first such comment and had me in splits!
Yeah, Even I get that in the local lingo - I say yes, short circuit saar. and move on.

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
In Pune unsolicitedly overhelpful junta from the front signals that your light is on with what can only be decribed as a pretty obscene gesture (yes my mind is in the gutter .....).

After years of exasperation, my final solution is to give them a very elbaorate and theatrical thumbs up of assent.

If they kep doing the obscene gesture, I keep giving the thumbs up, till we pass each other. I even add the "Indian bobble/headshake" for added effect ......
This is the best return gesture ever! Just bob your head up n down or sideways acknowledging it - has them in bewilderment wondering -- arre! I tell him of something and he doesn't care!

Also I nod in affirmative when people ask - Maadifyed Bullettaa saar? When I say Yes, they say, What an awesome job done, who is the mechanic? I tell them, Manjunath mechanic? Dont you know him? How bad!! by then the light would've turned green!
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Old 22nd April 2014, 14:35   #357
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Also I nod in affirmative when people ask - Maadifyed Bullettaa saar? When I say Yes, they say, What an awesome job done, who is the mechanic? I tell them, Manjunath mechanic? Dont you know him? How bad!! by then the light would've turned green!

LOL that is pure evil man! Manjunath mechanic .....
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Old 22nd April 2014, 14:41   #358
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LOL that is pure evil man! Manjunath mechanic .....
Doc - I feel bad but I know its not worthwhile being defensive about it and say, No its not a bullet its "harley davidson, look its written on the tank" then they would want to know the history of it etc. I'd love to tell them all - but not at a traffic light.

To the more neutral ones - who just ask - what bike is this - they get a quick update - real one - not the manjunath mechanic type.

Cost, mileage, showroom location etc are the common questions. Am glad they don't point at the tires and say "Sir, your tire has gone bald" - a comment that I have faced many a times while the Duke was still the New Kid on the block.
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Old 22nd April 2014, 14:53   #359
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Default Re: I just got Har-Ley'd! My Iron 883

To be fair, our society (at least in biker cities like Pune) does catch on fast.

I no longer get asked whether my silencer has fallen off while riding my Duke.
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Old 24th April 2014, 12:14   #360
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Most people think that ecm will adapt to changes and will alter fueling based on o2 sensors, However it is only partly correct. stock Narrow band sensors provide usable input to ecu for only a very limited conditions & AFR ( Thats the only reason Wide band O2 sensors are SOLD in market). Stock ECM is programmed to Ignore any input from stock sensors except which falls within range of 14.3 - 15.1 AFR ( Sensor voltage 450mv = 14.64 AFR) .

Also Stock 883 MAP ( At least my Stock MAP) is set to maintain 14.64AFR for most of the Normal conditions like Light load , low throttle , low Engine temp etc , largely normal cruising!
14.64 is already a very lean number and is used only when one wants best possible fuel economy. For high Power and torque -AFR of 12.4 - 13.3 is recommended .

Changing Exhaust or Intake or both will send in more air, leaning the mixture further , ECU will try to adjust but only for regions where despite the mod , the flow change AFR is still below 15:1.
Only For that region ECU will try to bring it back to 14.64(Which already is LEAN).
Typically with Only Exhaust change ( V&H SHort Shots) O2 Sensor will still give sensible input to ECM between 1500rpm to 3800rpm (AC Filter condition and IAT will matter as well). Thats the normal Cruising RPM. Rest every where else bike will run Lean and ECU will ignore the O2 signal. ECU will keep pumping same quantity of fuel which it was pumping without mod.

SO you are pretty safe with Exhaust change although your bike will not gain all that it can from after market Exhaust.

Harleys get away with all sort of mods without ECU remap because of these .


Xieds or whatever they are called are pretty stupid! My frd from dehradun has changed from Xieds to PC5 to SERT within 2 years . He always had his bike running rough and knocking at high temps!

I advice you to go fro SEPRT or PV , even if that means you have to wait 6months or whatever.


I guess proper Fuel with 12.6AFR and good flow from AC to Exhaust will will put my torque well into 80ies and max power into mid to late fifties easily.
Dustom sir - I have a few questions for you. Help appreciated.

O2 sensors - Are they still in place after removing stock exhaust? I vaguely remember the SA mentioning that the O2 sensors are gone along with the stock exhausts.

AFR - What would be my AFR after the exhaust mod, How do I check it?

Gain - What would be the gain I would've got after this? Can that be measured?

XiEd - did your friend run them for two years before going the SEPRT/PV way?


Thanks,
Shubz
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