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Old 21st November 2013, 19:31   #1
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Default Coming to India - KTM 690!

http://www.motoroids.com/news/rejoic...e-india-bound/

The KTM 690 Duke is powered by a 690cc, single cylinder, 4 stroke, fuel injected engine that has a max power of 67 bhp. The motor comes mated to a 6 speed gearbox and the 690 Duke tips the scale at just 149.5 kgs (that, for reference, is lighter than a Bajaj Pulsar 220 DTSI!). The bike has a 14 litres fuel tank capacity.
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Old 21st November 2013, 19:36   #2
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Post re: Coming to India - KTM 690!

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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
http://www.motoroids.com/news/rejoic...e-india-bound/

The KTM 690 Duke is powered by a 690cc, single cylinder, 4 stroke, fuel injected engine that has a max power of 67 bhp. The motor comes mated to a 6 speed gearbox and the 690 Duke tips the scale at just 149.5 kgs (that, for reference, is lighter than a Bajaj Pulsar 220 DTSI!). The bike has a 14 litres fuel tank capacity.
It's been long speculated that the 690 would be home, very soon. But with so many bikes adventing with parallel twin and three cylinder, KTM wins when it comes to power to pot ration. Let's see how it unfolds.

Cheers!
VJ
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Old 21st November 2013, 22:37   #3
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Default re: Coming to India - KTM 690!

Looking at this picture itself, is making me drool.
If 390 is what it is, I can't imagine what this would be with almost similar weight.

If Bajaj is going to manufacture this and launches it with a good pricing like the 390, I'll hold onto to my Bullets till then!
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Old 22nd November 2013, 13:36   #4
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Default re: Coming to India - KTM 690!

Why 67 bhp? Internationally it puts out 72 bhp. Indian fuel?

That said, my plans for waiting for the adventure/touring version of the 390 have now officially gone sailing through the window.

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Old 22nd November 2013, 14:34   #5
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Default re: Coming to India - KTM 690!

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Why 67 bhp? Internationally it puts out 72 bhp. Indian fuel?

That said, my plans for waiting for the adventure/touring version of the 390 have now officially gone sailing through the window.
Coz you've just decided that you will wait for the 690 instead? Or settle for the 390 itself? What do you think could the price of this be if manufactured in India?

And the RC 390 is due in March I think....right? Any idea over the price of the RC 390?
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Old 22nd November 2013, 14:50   #6
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Default re: Coming to India - KTM 690!

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Coz you've just decided that you will wait for the 690 instead? Or settle for the 390 itself? What do you think could the price of this be if manufactured in India?

And the RC 390 is due in March I think....right? Any idea over the price of the RC 390?
Yes, I'll obviously wait for the 690 instead. If the adventure/touring 390 was not happening, then I would probably still not be any closer to buying the 390 than I was over the past few months. And no, I would not buy a faired bike, the RC or any other.

No idea about the price, but I recall someone high up saying to me quite some time ago (and this was before the rupee plummeted) that to get the 690 to India at the type of volumes they expected it to do, the bike would not be anywhere less than 8 lacs.

If they are going to make it here, or even make part/s of it here, then they would surely try and bring it in at a lower price point than the current 650 in their organisational stable. Which knowing Bajaj, they surely can, if anyone can.

This news has definitely made me rethink more than one plan of mine. I have always said a good 400 (like the 390 surely is) is more than enough for India.

Well, a 690 is even better!

Last edited by ebonho : 22nd November 2013 at 14:52.
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Old 22nd November 2013, 20:53   #7
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Default Re: Coming to India - KTM 690!

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No idea about the price, but I recall someone high up saying to me quite some time ago (and this was before the rupee plummeted) that to get the 690 to India at the type of volumes they expected it to do, the bike would not be anywhere less than 8 lacs.

!
I seriously doubt Bajaj will price it more than 4L. My guess would be closer to 3L, and under cut Ninja 650 and CBR 500 by good margins, just like they did with earlier models. Also, with Harley Davidson announcing a sub 5L pricing for 750 cc, which begins production in March next year and going on sale from June 2014. It just seems best year of motorcycling is around the corner
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Old 23rd November 2013, 11:38   #8
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Default Re: Coming to India - KTM 690!

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I seriously doubt Bajaj will price it more than 4L. My guess would be closer to 3L, and under cut Ninja 650 and CBR 500 by good margins, just like they did with earlier models. Also, with Harley Davidson announcing a sub 5L pricing for 750 cc, which begins production in March next year and going on sale from June 2014. It just seems best year of motorcycling is around the corner
Absolutely no offense meant, but most of guys all over the net and other forums, who are day dreaming and coming up with prices like 3.5 lacs, 3.75 lacs, not more than 4 lacs and now, 3 lacs(!), I suspect have very little idea what technology and equipment goes into the 690. Making it the pinnacle of cutting edge single cylinder technogy and performance, that actually holds its own against multi cylinder machines of the same displacement, yet loses none of the inherent characteristics and pluses of being a big single.

This is not "just" a 690 cc single. It is THE legendary LC4 motor for crying out loud!!!!

So while it is good to extrapolate numbers and say, oh the 200 comes in at 1.5 lacs, the 390 at 2 lacs, so it stands to reason that the 690 should be X lacs, in the real world, it may not be quite as simple as that. Of course, this is Bajaj we are talking about, and I would love to be proven wrong and to eat my words (after I buy the bike!).

Last edited by ebonho : 23rd November 2013 at 11:42.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 13:10   #9
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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Absolutely no offense meant, but most of guys all over the net and other forums, who are day dreaming and coming up with prices like 3.5 lacs, 3.75 lacs, not more than 4 lacs and now, 3 lacs(!), I suspect have very little idea what technology and equipment goes into the 690. Making it the pinnacle of cutting edge single cylinder technogy and performance, that actually holds its own against multi cylinder machines of the same displacement, yet loses none of the inherent characteristics and pluses of being a big single. This is not "just" a 690 cc single. It is THE legendary LC4 motor for crying out loud!!!! So while it is good to extrapolate numbers and say, oh the 200 comes in at 1.5 lacs, the 390 at 2 lacs, so it stands to reason that the 690 should be X lacs, in the real world, it may not be quite as simple as that. Of course, this is Bajaj we are talking about, and I would love to be proven wrong and to eat my words (after I buy the bike!).
None taken my friend, and thank you for sharing the details about the engine.
But, I am sure you'll agree that the pricing strategy is a function of business and not engineering. I do not doubt the exclusivity of technology in KTM, but also understand that this motorcycle is going to built on an assembly line, and not in a studio. Having studied pricing at Stanford, I can safely say that cost of R&D has limited role in determining the final price of a commodity.
Remember the only reason KTM are making this bike is to sell, and not to showcase it at louvre. A (not the) reason for the dukes success has been the penetration strategy adopted by Bajaj, through which they undercut the competition. They created strong value proposition for their products, offered cutting edge international quality products at affordable prices. They would not like to loose this hard earned recognition and blow-up a well thought strategy, by such over the top pricing. My 2 cents..
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Old 24th November 2013, 00:34   #10
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Default Re: Coming to India - KTM 690!

The bike is just awesome!. And with the killer pricing which KTM will most probably adopt , this thing will leave the showroom in no time.

BUT, are our roads fit to handle or atleast accommodate these kind of machines?
I don't think so. The Indian motorcycle industry is on a fast and serious search for more power. The manufacturers are coming up with new powerful bikes which are priced lesser. That's a good thing, as Indian can now afford proper sports bikes, but there is a downside to it as well.
The main thing is the pathetic condition of our roads. What's funny is that, the law states that it is punishable to ride a motorcycle above 50 km/hr speeds. People don't buy a 390 cc bike let alone a 690 cc bike to ride it below 50 km/hr, we don't even have easy access to racing tracks as well. Now that fairly powerful bikes are affordable to the middle-class, 200-600 cc bikes are a common site on our crowded narrow pothole ridden roads.
And accidents involving these kind of motorcycles are increasing and unless something is done accident rates are just going to increase.

I don't think a 690 is suitable for our roads.
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Old 24th November 2013, 11:53   #11
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Default Re: Coming to India - KTM 690!

Even I strongly believe that the price would be around 4-4.5 lakhs for 2 reasons one is we Indian are capable of low cost manufacturing which the developed world is not capable of and with more localization, the cost can be bought down. Agree that the R&D cost is high but it can be spread over more units leading to lower price.

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BUT, are our roads fit to handle or atleast accommodate these kind of machines?
I don't think so. What's funny is that, the law states that it is punishable to ride a motorcycle above 50 km/hr speeds. People don't buy a 390 cc bike let alone a 690 cc bike to ride it below 50 km/hr, we don't even have easy access to racing tracks as well. Now that fairly powerful bikes are affordable to the middle-class, 200-600 cc bikes are a common site on our crowded narrow pothole ridden roads.
And accidents involving these kind of motorcycles are increasing and unless something is done accident rates are just going to increase.

I don't think a 690 is suitable for our roads.
I partially agree with you and when I say agree, I mean the infrastructure is not adequate to handle supercars but as for as the superbikes, you can take them anywhere.

I would like to add that most people who buy big bikes mostly use these as lifestyle bikes and not use them as commuters (unless they have deep pockets). Even in this very own forum look at the number of people using the 390. As a commuter 390 or the 690 or even the 1000cc bikes doesnt make sense thanks to the heat, the low FE and the maintenance costs.

Again I would like to emphasis that it doesnt make sense but it can be ridden in the city.

Regarding the infrastructure, we have good highways atleast in TN. what we are lacking is the road sense. morons on moped taking the centre lane, using roads as grazing ground and cross as you wish attitude. Its the people who are to be blamed.

A Majority of the Accidents are caused due to negligence. Even the death of the BMW guy in Bangalore was negligence of the cable guy, not cause of his bike. So here again the people are to be blamed.

Respect the ride and it will take you to your destination safely.

Finally, our roads are fit to handle these machines, if you want to go flat out at each and every road then my friend the infrastructure is inadequate.
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Old 25th November 2013, 09:41   #12
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Default Re: Coming to India - KTM 690!

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Absolutely no offense meant, but most of guys all over the net and other forums, who are day dreaming and coming up with prices like 3.5 lacs, 3.75 lacs, not more than 4 lacs and now, 3 lacs(!), I suspect have very little idea what technology and equipment goes into the 690. Making it the pinnacle of cutting edge single cylinder technogy and performance, that actually holds its own against multi cylinder machines of the same displacement, yet loses none of the inherent characteristics and pluses of being a big single.

This is not "just" a 690 cc single. It is THE legendary LC4 motor for crying out loud!!!!

So while it is good to extrapolate numbers and say, oh the 200 comes in at 1.5 lacs, the 390 at 2 lacs, so it stands to reason that the 690 should be X lacs, in the real world, it may not be quite as simple as that. Of course, this is Bajaj we are talking about, and I would love to be proven wrong and to eat my words (after I buy the bike!).
I do agree completely to all you said bro.
I am also waiting for such a machine. Having upgraded from a 150 cc- 220 cc- 250 cc , now want to go beyond 650cc.....
Wish Bajaj brings it on fast.

Last edited by Rehaan : 5th December 2013 at 17:52. Reason: I think you typed 1500 cc instead of 150 cc. Corrected.
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Old 25th November 2013, 11:34   #13
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Default Re: Coming to India - KTM 690!

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Originally Posted by jha.shailesh View Post
None taken my friend, and thank you for sharing the details about the engine.
But, I am sure you'll agree that the pricing strategy is a function of business and not engineering. I do not doubt the exclusivity of technology in KTM, but also understand that this motorcycle is going to built on an assembly line, and not in a studio. Having studied pricing at Stanford, I can safely say that cost of R&D has limited role in determining the final price of a commodity.
Remember the only reason KTM are making this bike is to sell, and not to showcase it at louvre. A (not the) reason for the dukes success has been the penetration strategy adopted by Bajaj, through which they undercut the competition. They created strong value proposition for their products, offered cutting edge international quality products at affordable prices. They would not like to loose this hard earned recognition and blow-up a well thought strategy, by such over the top pricing. My 2 cents..
While I'm not a pricing expert, nor has any part of my training been done abroad, at least not on the engineering side, as a physician and an MBA, and director and head of clinical & business development of a pharma major, I do appreciate the finer nuances of market dynamics and product pricing bro. I do know that while R&D payback has a finite time span, the realities of cost of goods versus plant and machinery and line time versus actual sales numbers have to be dealt with quarter after quarter.

I must also mention, though its no major claim to fame, that before the 390 was launched, amongst a handful of guys polled and asked for their opinions of community (biker) perceptions with regard to its probable price (various degrees of buying decisiveness and product value perception), I got the price right (to within 5000 bucks and change).

Introductions out of the way, I just feel that Bajaj is a past master of walkng the tightrope and keeping all sides happy. They will in all likelihood price the 690 less than the Ninja 650, to the extent that the only guys who will buy the 650 will be the ones who appreciate a twin for what it is, as well as the diferent riding dyamics of the bike vis a vis the lot more manic 690.

But the band they have to play with is not all that wide, seeing as the smaller Ninja 300 is now already 4 lacs +. If they price the 690 anywhere below that, they essentially kill the 300. Period. All rationales and arguments go out of the window. No biker worth his salt will choose the 300 over the 690, twin or faired or track tool or not. They would not even be in the same balllpark.

So it boils down to what is Bajaj really willing to do. What is Bajaj really able to do, based on its current understanding with Kawasaki when weighed against its legitimate business interests as majority owner of KTM (with the Huskies also about to enter the fray).

Based on what I know and understand therefore, under 4 lacs is near impossible. 4.5 lacs to 5 lacs is where I would place my money as a betting man. Less than 4.5 and they still make the 300 extinct.

But as a biker, and a potential buyer, I would fervently pray that their marketing and pricing boffins are from Standord as well, and I can get it at 3 lacs.

Last edited by ebonho : 25th November 2013 at 11:41.
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Old 25th November 2013, 12:04   #14
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Default Re: Coming to India - KTM 690!

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Based on what I know and understand therefore, under 4 lacs is near impossible. 4.5 lacs to 5 lacs is where I would place my money as a betting man. Less than 4.5 and they still make the 300 extinct.
I am sorry if the note about my education seemed presumptuous, my intention was to add credibility to the analysis and not in anyway challenge fellow revered BHPians authority on their respective subjects.
However, its good to see that some are getting closer to my estimated figure, from 8 to 4.5 in a few days, not bad. I am hoping couple of more exchanges and we should have winner in SuperMoto. Going by Doctor's past reputation, maybe he would be right again.

Another quick point as we are discussing pricing: Duke 390 retails for around 4500 GBP in UK and 690 for 6700 GBP. However, I read somewhere that unlike 125, 200 & 390, 690 would not be made at Chakan, rather be initially be offered as a CKD and subsequently made in India. So the pricing would be higher initially, as localization will kick-in much later.

To get the attention back on the bike, here is latest review in overdrive of the 690. Those raising concerns over Indian roads conditions and drivers ability, sure seem to have a valid point - like our expert rider from Overdrive just found out, how bad the 690 can get. Below is a review.

http://overdrive.in/reviews/2013-ktm...ke-first-ride/

Last edited by jha.shailesh : 25th November 2013 at 12:20. Reason: more information
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Old 25th November 2013, 12:20   #15
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Default Re: Coming to India - KTM 690!

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Good to see that you're getting closer to my figure, from 8 to 4.5 in a few days, not bad. I am hoping couple of more exchanges and we should have winner in SuperMoto. Going by your past reputation, maybe you would be right again.
8 lacs was not my figure bro. Read my post again. It was the figure of someone in a decision making position at KTM, were the bike to be brought in as an import based on the volumes the expected from India, and at a time the rupee was still at 50 to a dollar. Something they at the time did not see much potential in, and hence had consigned to the backburner. Do you know that the 690 and the 990 have been contantly thrashed and poked at in Chakan for more than 2 years and counting now? These things take time, and in business nothing is constant .... as is evident from below.

Quote:
Another quick point as we are discussing pricing: Duke 390 retails for around 4500 GBP in UK and 690 for 6700 GBP. However, I read somewhere that unlike 125, 200 & 390, 690 would not be made at Chakan, rather be initially be offered as a CKD and subsequently made in India. So the pricing would be higher initially, as localization will kick-in much later.
Earlier, there were no plans to make the 690 in India. The volumes just did not add up. The falling rupee since then has obviously had more than its fair share in this strategic business decision, guided more by export margins than by domestic consumption or pricing.

Last edited by ebonho : 25th November 2013 at 12:31.
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