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Old 2nd March 2014, 20:01   #136
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by getsurya View Post


Adding to the list of 'gripes':

1. Left lane indicator switch looks tacky
2. Wiring behind head lamp on the right side and bundled wires below the seat/ fuel tank area are an eye sore
3. Head lamp does not carry the HD logo
4. The bullet indicators look very cheap on an expensive bike, not sturdy too
adding to that list:
5. Exposed electrical connectors near the pipes
6. exposed eye sore of red wires connecting the horn
7. no harley branding in front shock cowls


What i liked:
1. the overall stylish, looks a mini v-rod
2. the cowl, which i hated in pictures, looks very nice in the real bike
3. the riding posture and feel of the bike, seems very good for the traffic laden streets (yet to confirm with test ride, this is the first impression)
4. foot rest for pillion
5. Shocks were quite soft, should give good variation for settings various levels
6. Good list of accessories, yet to see pricing, but heard some 70+ are available. I think would pick few of them, if i get it like the eagles, nut covers, etc
7. Wife felt this Harley has a young feel and look to it compared to others, and she hates Harley's so to see her excited and saying if you buy this model,I approve was a huge surprise to me. I think to extent I agree with her as she is more of a ducati person and this does deviate more towards v-rod styling

Neutral:
1. MRF tyres, need to be tested
2. Endurance disk brakes (not saying they are bad, but need to see if they behave on a bike of this size and weight)

Its 4.69 lakhs on road in Chennai with a waiting period of 3-4 months. Did not book it, as I wanted to have a test ride before finalizing it.
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Old 2nd March 2014, 21:07   #137
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
P.S. I did not know this came with an overhead (chain driven?) cam. In that case its highly unlikely its going to have the traditional Harley firing.
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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
How does it sound?
...
And the fact that its a 60 degree twin compared to the traditional 45 degree Harley twins, means the potato potato beat will not be there (also due to the overhead chain driven cams rather than the pushrods).
Relationship between method of valve actuation and exhaust note?

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Old 8th March 2014, 00:29   #138
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Relationship between method of valve actuation and exhaust note?

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Sutripta
The street 750 in comparision to traditional harleys has a significantly shorter stroke and because of overhead cam(as well as stroke) , it can rev to a significantly higher engine rpm(8000rpm in street as compared to the stock limit of 5,500 in iron for example) . The 2 combined will result in a different exhaust note , it will be something between a harley and a sportsbike.
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Old 8th March 2014, 19:58   #139
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

^^^
Let me rephrase my question: 'Everything else remaining the same, what will be the effect of different methods of valve actuation on exhaust note?'

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Old 8th March 2014, 23:18   #140
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^
Let me rephrase my question: 'Everything else remaining the same, what will be the effect of different methods of valve actuation on exhaust note?'

Regards
Sutripta

The 2 methods of valve actuation that exist in harleys-
1. pushrod with the cam present in the body , same as cast iron enfields.

2. Overhead cam that directly moves the rocker arms.

The major difference between them is overhead cam results in higher revving motor. This in turn results in a different exhaust note which is faster/smoother but not necessarily louder for the lack of a better way to explain it.
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Old 8th March 2014, 23:56   #141
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

BTW , visited showroom again and revved the bike for 5 mins and pushed it around to feel the weight. Did almost everything possible other than ride it .
Im not any wiser regarding details other than exhaust note which is good , not even close to an iron or fatbob but it sounds modern for the lack of a better word , but I can forsee quite a few who will hate it. The bike MIGHT prove to be a great handler , assuming they get performance right , this will be a good competition for triumph boneville.

Cost cutting is done all around but overall it is acceptable SIMPLY BECAUSE of the lack of better options in 2-5 lakhs range . Will I get it ? most likely , exhaust note has satisfied me so far though i will book it only after test ride.

Bike only starts in neutral , cant depress clutch and start in gear . Handle lock and ignition share same lock which is user friendly. Indicator , lower portion of rear fender and side panels below front seat are plastic. The Plastics were good except at the handle fitting which along with the footpegs felt downright cheap. The MRF tyre has harley davidson logo pressed on its side , clearly made to specific order which is good. Clutch is light , brakes are 70-30 . Cant change engine oil at home without removing fuel tank .

The metal clanking sound one can hear towards the end is from the engine , they said it was an engine defect but it was lound and unhealthy in nature. Overall quality of sound in video is bad , it sounds a lot better in person.



sorry admins , 30mins time expired .

Last edited by basuroy : 9th March 2014 at 00:03.
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Old 9th March 2014, 02:48   #142
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

Thanks for the video! Engine sounds soft and revvy....very Japanese :(

How were the vibes. Also do you know if its a 4 valves per cyl ? Peak power at what rpm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
The major difference between them is overhead cam results in higher revving motor. This in turn results in a different exhaust note which is faster/smoother but not necessarily louder for the lack of a better way to explain it.
In theory its not necessarily true. A OHC can be made to revv slowly and Corvette pushrod goes to 7K. But generally speaking, the OHC ones revv higher yes

Potato sound comes more from firing order, combustion rate, flywheel design and exhaust tuning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^
Let me rephrase my question: 'Everything else remaining the same, what will be the effect of different methods of valve actuation on exhaust note?'

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 9th March 2014, 09:47   #143
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

I booked a 750 on behalf of a friend in Army, currently posted in a remote location. Promised delivery time is July, paid a deposit of Rs.30,000.
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Old 9th March 2014, 19:06   #144
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Thanks for the video! Engine sounds soft and revvy....very Japanese :(

How were the vibes. Also do you know if its a 4 valves per cyl ? Peak power at what rpm?


In theory its not necessarily true. A OHC can be made to revv slowly and Corvette pushrod goes to 7K. But generally speaking, the OHC ones revv higher yes

Potato sound comes more from firing order, combustion rate, flywheel design and exhaust tuning.
I am yet to visit a more ignorant dealership than harley davidson , they are basically clueless about the bike other than obvious stuffs so no idea about power etc etc(only figure offered is 65nm torque at 4000rpm). They could not even answer if the 6th gear is an overdrive or drive , looked at me as if I was from another planet. The courtesy extended also left much to be desired , s'erved' about 50ml of tea in a mug that can hold almost a litre . Not sure if it was leftover ...

That being said , based on a nov 2013 article from cycleworld where a person got his hands on the street 500 in america , we know these and they are at the moment considered "accurate" for the lack of anything else-
Redlines at 8000rpm stock. V-rod is 9000 , iron is 5,500.

Bore/stroke ratio is around 1.2-1.4 , traditional harley cruisers are around 0.8 , this is clearly a performance oriented machine though not an outright high revving SBK which have ratios exceeding 1.7 and high compression ratio.

Street 500 is around 33bhp crank , 750 as per sources vary from 44-54 bhp.

Single overhead cam actuating 4 valves per head . Confirmed . V-rod is dual overhead cam . No idea on whether separate injection for both cylinder or a common bifurcating into 2. Guessing it will be later as they have done cost cutting all around . V-rod rockers have bucket-shim adjustment , it is expected the street will have the common rocker nut adjustment. Bucket shim as I have been told allows more accurate valve clearance but rocker nut is easier to service and maintain. Fair trade off I guess...

Bike can't be started in gear even with clutch depressed. Tested it out in the display bike and it was the case , my dad found the thing so outrageously stupid that he commented maybe they tampered with the tranny in display bike so that it cant be moved.

Slightly different oil circulation compared to v-rod based on pictures.

An india journo qouting a HD source said top speed is 150kph , If true it is pathetic but it is expected to outperform iron which tops out at 165 . The HD salesman told me 120 , I asked whether mile per hour and he looked at me with an expression of pure delusion . No I am not kidding .

Vibes were present in handle , increased slightly on revs. No idea how much will be present when in motion but my guess is it will be there. Do i expect it to be uncomfortable ? Not in city but who knows on long rides. I should mention I own a cast iron bullet so my benchmark for vibes is skewered. It was less than the fatboy though which was shaking like earthquake.

BTW the engine in real life is louder and throatier than the vid , it gives you an idea but is not accurate .

Last edited by basuroy : 9th March 2014 at 19:32.
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Old 9th March 2014, 20:23   #145
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
In theory its not necessarily true. A OHC can be made to revv slowly and Corvette pushrod goes to 7K. But generally speaking, the OHC ones revv higher yes
A lot of discussion on pushrod vs. OHC in a V8 in the American context.

Quote:
Potato sound comes more from firing order, combustion rate, flywheel design and exhaust tuning.
The most important contributor to the 'Harley Sound' is the firing angle.
For individual note, add valve timing, and exhaust design (as different from tuning.)
Method of valve actuation, by itself, should have no effect on exhaust note.

Quote:
Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
Single overhead cam actuating 4 valves per head . Confirmed .
Did you note the spark plug position?

Quote:
BTW the engine in real life is louder and throatier than the vid , it gives you an idea but is not accurate .
Judging from the video, it most certainly does not pass Willie's sound test.

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Old 9th March 2014, 23:35   #146
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post

The most important contributor to the 'Harley Sound' is the firing angle.
For individual note, add valve timing, and exhaust design (as different from tuning.)
Method of valve actuation, by itself, should have no effect on exhaust note.


Did you note the spark plug position?


Judging from the video, it most certainly does not pass Willie's sound test.

Regards
Sutripta
You are correct method of valve actuation itself should not effect sound but it is due to the method of valve actuation in this particular bike that it can rev up to a higher rpm in comparision resulting in a different note. And higher revving/shorter stroke bike will automatically have lighter flywheel , different firing sequence resulting in an overall different note. If the street was pushrod for example , I believe evrything else will be engineered differently resulting ina different , perhaps more traditional exhaust note.

Spark plug position is opposite in both cylinder heads , the two heads looked interchangeable . Front cylinder has spark plug on left , rear on right , cam drive vice-versa .

While i'm not sure about willie's benchmarks , It sounds nothing like a fatbob or iron so I guess it fails the test of traditional harleys. Closer to the triumph boneville or a more subtle version of the v-rod itself.
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Old 10th March 2014, 01:22   #147
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

Quote:
Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
Redlines at 8000rpm stock. V-rod is 9000 , iron is 5,500.

Bore/stroke ratio is around 1.2-1.4 , traditional harley cruisers are around 0.8 , this is clearly a performance oriented machine though not an outright high revving SBK which have ratios exceeding 1.7 and high compression ratio.

Street 500 is around 33bhp crank , 750 as per sources vary from 44-54 bhp.

Bike can't be started in gear even with clutch depressed. Tested it out in the display bike and it was the case , my dad found the thing so outrageously stupid that he commented maybe they tampered with the tranny in display bike so that it cant be moved.
Seems like its more like a junior Night Rod rather than a Iron. It makes sense that they would try to differentiate from an Iron883 that is just 100 cc away

Bhp is in the same ballpark as a Honda SHadow 750 around which the Street is closely modelled after
Quote:
An india journo qouting a HD source said top speed is 150kph , If true it is pathetic but it is expected to outperform iron which tops out at 165 . The HD salesman told me 120 , I asked whether mile per hour and he looked at me with an expression of pure delusion . No I am not kidding
If its top speed is your No1 priority,then why wouldn't you go for a sportbike with fairing like a Ninja 650?
Quote:
Single overhead cam actuating 4 valves per head . Confirmed . V-rod is dual overhead cam . No idea on whether separate injection for both cylinder or a common bifurcating into.
Check to see how many injectors and their positioning
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
For individual note, add valve timing, and exhaust design
Valve timing? How?

Last edited by Mpower : 11th March 2014 at 19:04.
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Old 10th March 2014, 03:03   #148
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Seems like its more like a junior Street Rod rather than a Iron. It makes sense that they would try to differentiate from an Iron883 that is just 100 cc away

Bhp is in the same ballpark as a Honda SHadow 750 around which the Street is closely modelled after

If its top speed is your No1 priority,then why wouldn't you go for a sportbike with fairing like a Ninja 650?

Check to see how many injectors and their positioning
Valve timing? How?
yup it is a mini street rod and even looks like one from behind, only HD's with 60deg V angle , both liquid cooled and both called revolution engine. Difference exists but similarities as well.

Top speed is not a priority but a mean of judging the engine in general , I rarely cross 100 and even a 500cc enfield can do the job I want , this is more of a luxury purchase than sheer need but I like to think the engine is capable instead of weak(160kmph is the number I expect tbh) . Wait until the americans get their bikes for real performance figures. The v-rod enthusiasts claims they will be mighty surprised if it doesn't beats a iron 883 in acceleration as well as top speed. Sportsbike are not an option because of riding posture . And only option in 3-5lakh range is ninja 300, ninja 650 is boneville territory and I can't afford either.
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Old 10th March 2014, 07:02   #149
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
Top speed is not a priority but a mean of judging the engine in general , I rarely cross 100 and even a 500cc enfield can do the job I want , this is more of a luxury purchase than sheer need but I like to think the engine is capable instead of weak(160kmph is the number I expect tbh)
Top speed is a function of not just engine. Gearing, aerodynamics and weight play a role.

The more expensive 883 makes around 45 bhp AFAIK so the Street's is not bad at all I think. Shadow and Yamaha Bolt are also around the same
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Old 10th March 2014, 19:42   #150
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Top speed is a function of not just engine. Gearing, aerodynamics and weight play a role.

The more expensive 883 makes around 45 bhp AFAIK so the Street's is not bad at all I think. Shadow and Yamaha Bolt are also around the same
yep 883 is 45bhp . Agreed weight and gearing plays a role hence many of us finding it hard to believe when HD says iron outperforms street considering it is 5 speed(street is 6 with shorter ratios in comparision expected) and 40kg heavier not to mention revs upto 5,500rpm in stock while the street redlines at 8000rpm . But after visiting the dealership twice and speaking over phone with 3 others , all of them passed this verdict based on 'more displacement= more power' so i'm not surprised.
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