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Old 22nd January 2014, 12:38   #31
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

Quote:
Originally Posted by the VTEC guy View Post
I think the 500cc version will be 33 bhp and 750 cc 47 bhp? No point of tuning the 750 cc bike in such variation in power.
You must be right, 33 bhp from 750 cc is too 1960s
But then to be honest, I know about Mahindra's tractor engine - which produces 38 bhp (B275 2350CC 38BHP 12Kgm@1400rpm).
This was used in Mahindra Jeeps

But you need to check out its load pulling abilities!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
I think you took that personally Doc, wherein my post was not at all directed towards you, but at the other posters undertones who seem to be commenting without having ever driven a Harley.
Since ebonho has been exonerated, and The bulk never wrote anything about the engine, that leaves me.

But as far as I can see I was being skeptic but also defend Harley's stand on not publishing the peak torque figures.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 12:49   #32
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Apples and oranges in terms of price points bro.

Let Harley produce the same finish and quality and offer its bikes (and parts and accessories) at the cost RE does.
If Harley does that, honestly, I feel nobody would be buying the heavy duty metals.

What is so exceptional about RE build quality at whatever price it is being offered at?
Misaligned turn indicators, electric start not working within months of purchase etc.

It is personal preference of what one feels about a certain set of wheels.
Some people love the REs and will trade in almost anything for it, but me, I would have bought the Continental GT if it was a Bajaj, but RE - NEVER.

Would you go ahead and compare a Alto 800 with a Swift?

Quote:
One water cooled, one air cooled. One a V Twin, one a single. Both 500 cc. And the purchase cost involved in the decision for a biker looking at both.
Comparing the Classic 500 with the Street 750?
The HD Street comes with a 749cc, not 500.

Quote:
I will maintain. 33 bhp from a 500 cc modern liquid cooled V twin IS pretty sad.
Would you say that about the fast Conti GT as well which produces only 29.1 BHP.

Last edited by parrys : 22nd January 2014 at 12:53.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 12:56   #33
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

Open Letter to Harley-Davidson India

Attn: Mr. Anoop Prakash

Dear Anoop,

Congratulations on having the guts to buck the trend from the parent country and introduce not one but two new baby Harleys!

There are legitimate concerns and doubts however in the larger biking fraternity about the credentials, performance, and value for money of these new Harleys versus the similar capacity established Indian cult machine - the Bullet 500s.

As a Bullet rider of more than 10 years standing, and owner of not one but all three of Royal Enfield's 500's, the Std CI Bullet, the LB AVL Machismo, and the UCE Classic, I would be really interested in putting your 500 through its paces and do a seat of the pants, real life, Indian biker comparo between the two.

I am sure that a company with the proud heritage of over a century that Harley-Davidson has, with a brand that means so much and demands in equal measure, would be more than willing to pit its machine against the only other of similar capacity here in India, which is also coicidentally from an equally if not prouder marque and probably the only other centurion that's older than you (by 3 years to be precise).

Looking forward to hearing from you, and wishing you and H-D India the best always.

Cheers, Doc
Pune, India

Last edited by GTO : 24th January 2014 at 18:05. Reason: It's inappropriate to mention Team-BHP in this communication. Removing
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Old 22nd January 2014, 13:01   #34
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
I think you took that personally Doc, wherein my post was not at all directed towards you, but at the other posters undertones who seem to be commenting without having ever driven a Harley. That the pricing of a Harley is obnoxious is an understatement but then so it is with all the other luxury brands in the market who offer a jump of say 30~100% in quality and demand a premium of 200~500%. Yes, we were driving 350's but having owned a 500 too, nothing much seems to have changed over the years. All our bikes were relatively new. My point was just to see and feel the Harley in the flesh and get a ride on it, if possible, before totally dishing it out. Peace...
You like the Harley, great. Stop harping it as if it is god's gift to mankind. BTW I like the Harley too, but with the minimal on and off rides that I participate in, and the kind of job that I do, my bike may not even do 5000kms a year, so no point in buying a big machine and leave it rusting in my garage.
But your tone of deriding others choices and speaking on pricing being out of reach sounds too conceited and wanna be. And with EMI schemes a 6 lac bike is not out of reach of someone earning even 50k per month, so please lets not get into this kind of discussion.
What Doc said, is true, 30-40bhp from a 500-750cc vtwin, liquid cooled is quite low in today's age and time. That too on a heavy 200+kg dry mass.
I like the 800 and further up Harleys but 4 lacs for a Chinese cruiser looking Harley 500 is overpricing it, IMO.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 13:06   #35
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Stop harping it as if it is god's gift to mankind.
No need to get personal mate. I did not with you. You don't like the Harley, then got off this thread and let people who want to buy one or are at least interested in it in the long term discuss it. Have you ever driven one that gives you the right to deride one?
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Old 22nd January 2014, 13:18   #36
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
No need to get personal mate. I did not with you. You don't like the Harley, then got off this thread and let people who want to buy one or are at least interested in it in the long term discuss it. Have you ever driven one that gives you the right to deride one?
I am not deriding the bike mate, just pointed out your attitude towards others who may have a doubt or dont worship the brand as you do. Enough said, I am not discussing this further with you.. ride safe and enjoy sir!!
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Old 22nd January 2014, 13:25   #37
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by parrys View Post
What is so exceptional about RE build quality at whatever price it is being offered at?
Misaligned turn indicators, electric start not working within months of purchase etc.
I'm probably the most vocal critic of RE's value for money downhill slide over the years, not to mention their lack of progress performance wise over 10-15 years and 3 different engines. Hope you're not taking me for a RE fanboy.

Quote:
Comparing the Classic 500 with the Street 750?
The HD Street comes with a 749cc, not 500.
Comparing a RE 500 to a HD 500. What's so wrong with that?

Quote:
Would you say that about the fast Conti GT as well which produces only 29.1 BHP.
Yes I would, and have on the relvant thread in this same forum.

You will concede though that a 2 lac costing air cooled 500 cc single producing 29 bhp sounds a whole lot better than a 5 lac costing liquid cooled 500 cc V-twin producing 33 bhp. No?
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Old 22nd January 2014, 13:27   #38
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Open Letter to Harley-Davidson India
It does not justify your statement, of comparing Harleys to Enfields? Does it?

I am not for Harley and neither against the RE stable.
What I am trying to convey here is your statements are a little to sharp at times.

On the RC390 thread you call faired bikes as DHOOM bikes. Any reason why a faired bike is filmy? Your love for adventure bikes is understood and even we would love to see those on the road.

But it is all together a different thing to categorize a particular rider on the basis of the bike he chooses, which is not your preference.

And about the Street 750 not being up to the mark, lets wait for the ownership reports.
(Deep down inside, everybody knows that the quality levels are way above RE, no?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Comparing a RE 500 to a HD 500. What's so wrong with that?
Still a year away from comparisons

Quote:
You will concede though that a 2 lac costing air cooled 500 cc single producing 29 bhp sounds a whole lot better than a 5 lac costing liquid cooled 500 cc V-twin producing 33 bhp. No?
An Audi A4 2.0 TDi produces just 140 horses. Does this make the Chevy Cruze with a 164 BHP motor a better sounding option?
No right? It is the brand that one aspires for, not just the figures.

Last edited by parrys : 22nd January 2014 at 13:35.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 13:41   #39
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by parrys View Post
It does not justify your statement, of comparing Harleys to Enfields? Does it?
Why not? Did not get you. I think we've been over the push-pull dynamics of the potential market and target population in this very thread. It is a very relevant comparo in my opinion. Just like KTM has been poaching on RE, both RE and HD stand to poach on each other with this new development (more of the latter in my opinion).

Quote:
I am not for Harley and neither against the RE stable.
What I am trying to convey here is your statements are a little to sharp at times.

On the RC390 thread you call faired bikes as DHOOM bikes. Any reason why a faired bike is filmy? Your love for adventure bikes is understood and even we would love to see those on the road.

But it is all together a different thing to categorize a particular rider on the basis of the bike he chooses, which is not your preference.
My apologies if it came across as that. It was said in jest, and you've probably taken it out of context. Understandably so as you ride a faired bike yourself. I was commenting on general market trends amongst the larger Indian cohort. I think its safe to surmise that very few of us if at all here on Team BHP make up the general Indian cohort in terms of either experience, technical acumen, or passion. Or maturity.

Quote:
And about the Street 750 not being up to the mark, lets wait for the ownership reports.
(Deep down inside, everybody knows that the quality levels are way above RE, no?)
Why wait for the ownership reports. Lets get H-D to give us a bike to put through the paces. Hard, uncompromisingly, as we would any Indian bike. Abd then do a pictorial report on it. Why not join me on it. You take a lot better photos than I ever could!

Quality is just one aspect. Performance is another. Value for money a third. Livability and cost of ownership (as against cost of purchase alone) a fourth. Feel and image and lifestyle statement and aspirational value being many more. Everything goes into making a machine, and a deision whether or not to own one, or before that, even want to own one. For bikers, nore often than not, if you really WANT to own one, the finances are somehow some time arranged and put in place. Within a limit of course.

Peace and no hard feelings.

Last edited by ebonho : 22nd January 2014 at 13:49.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 13:52   #40
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Why not? Did not get you. I think we've been over the push-pull dynamics of the potential market and target population in this very thread. It is a very relevant comparo in my opinion. Just like KTM has been poaching on RE, both RE and HD stand to poach on each other with this new development (more of the latter in my opinion).
Comparison due to the comfortable riding position?
Because both the Dukes and the Enfields are in all together different league when it comes to handling.

I don't think KTM ever tried to target a Classic 500 bullet owner with the 390. However, marketing gimmicks and a customer cross shopping between segments can't be commented upon.

Quote:
My apologies if it came across as that. It was said in jest, and you've probably taken it out of context. Understandably so as you ride a faired bike yourself. I was commenting on general market trends amongst the larger Indian cohort. I think its safe to surmise that very few if at all her on Team BHP make up the general Indian cohort in terms of either experience, technical acumen, or passion.
Wouldn't comment on the motorcycling trend in India as of now and where it is heading. Because right now, we are having the best of every world.
KTM, Yamaha, Hondas, Harleys, RE with the Contis etc.

Quote:
Why wait for the ownership reports. Lets get H-D to give us a bike to put through the paces. Hard, uncompromisingly, as we would any Indian bike. Abd then do a pictorial report on it. Why not join me on it. You take a lot better photos than I ever could!
That, will be one hell of a bike shootout!
Hope both Harley & RE are listening. (Also other manufacturers)

Last edited by parrys : 22nd January 2014 at 13:58.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 19:01   #41
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

Here's a look at the rear, a shot I took at the IBW. Looks quite 'heavy' from this angle like all true blue Harleys...

Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa-ibw_8_street.jpg
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Old 23rd January 2014, 20:59   #42
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by parrys View Post
That, will be one hell of a bike shootout!
Hope both Harley & RE are listening. (Also other manufacturers)
No Launch report of the "Indian" parrys?
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Old 23rd January 2014, 23:53   #43
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
Here's a look at the rear, a shot I took at the IBW. Looks quite 'heavy' from this angle like all true blue Harleys...
Did you hear it fired up at the IBW? How does it sound?'

I actually like how it looks overall, except for the ugly tyres and fork gaiters.

Last edited by ebonho : 23rd January 2014 at 23:54.
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Old 25th January 2014, 10:48   #44
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by parrys View Post
It does not justify your statement, of comparing Harleys to Enfields? Does it?


An Audi A4 2.0 TDi produces just 140 horses. Does this make the Chevy Cruze with a 164 BHP motor a better sounding option?
No right? It is the brand that one aspires for, not just the figures.
How funny to use an Audi and Chevy example to compare two comparable bikes? Can you really compare Audi and the Cruze because of engine power? Are people not paying that Audi kind of money for the Audi kind of luxury? IMO Cruze the only saving grace is the engine, rest of the car is quite horrible. Its not the brand per se, it is all the goodies which come with the brand.

And yes the 500 cc RE engine is very comparable to 500 Harley engine, similar bhp, similar bike weights, only Harley is expected to be 2lac higher than the RE!!! For what? Harley name? What the RE produces with 1 aircooled cylinder,the Harley finds hard to match with a liquid cooled Vtwin.. that's the surprising part.

The street 750 however is a different story, for 5 lacs it seems value for money, there is nothing comparable in cruisers/thumpers to this bike as of now. Unless Hysong or Bajaj cobble up a new 600-800 machine which is better in all terms.
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Old 25th January 2014, 10:52   #45
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
How funny to use an Audi and Chevy example to compare two comparable bikes? Can you really compare Audi and the Cruze because of engine power? Are people not paying that Audi kind of money for the Audi kind of luxury? IMO Cruze the only saving grace is the engine, rest of the car is quite horrible. Its not the brand per se, it is all the goodies which come with the brand.

And yes the 500 cc RE engine is very comparable to 500 Harley engine, similar bhp, similar bike weights, only Harley is expected to be 2lac higher than the RE!!! For what? Harley name? What the RE produces with 1 aircooled cylinder,the Harley finds hard to match with a liquid cooled Vtwin.. that's the surprising part.
I would like to reply to that in one word: QUALITY!
If the comparison goes to apples and oranges, then so be it.

It still beats me why people will go ahead comparing a Harley to a RE. I wouldn't buy either of them, but still, if I had to, I would rather get a Harley over the RE, any day, irrespective of the cost of ownership / purchase.

Quote:
Harley is expected to be 2lac higher than the RE!!! For what? Harley name?
One can always read the specification sheet (not just for the power output).
Liquid cooled, belt driven, etc. etc.
In more a more easy differentiation: Better tyres, alloy wheels, etc. etc.

Last edited by parrys : 25th January 2014 at 11:03.
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