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Old 1st March 2014, 00:55   #121
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

To understand torque, you have to drive a 600cc sport bike with 13,000 rpm redline. They are a royal pain drive in traffic because those things have hardly any torque below 5-6000 rpm

This is somewhat analogous to a commonrail turbodiesel vs hi revving petrol. The diesel many not have the outright 0-100kph number but feels more torque in real world conditions esp in-gear pulls. Riding the wave of torque can be quite pleasurable


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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I have always wryly shaken my head when first the Bullet boys and now the Harley boys get defensive and resort to diverting the discussion from outright performance (where both would be fighting hard for last place) to the "humungous torque" of their respective motors. Fact is, very little of that torque actually translates to anything real on the road, thanks to the equally humungous weight each have to respectively pull.
If your bike has humongous weight, then it’s probably better to have humongous torque to pull it right? Would be pretty sad to ride otherwise.

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Torque should in the real world translate to stomach wrenching acceleration. Neither bike can be accused of the same. The other thing low rpm torque is good for is carrying and pulling loads against huge resistance (gradient or surface). But since bikes by their very nature are neither cargo carrying trucks and lorries nor earth digging excavators or tractors, that too is largely academic in the real world of motorcycling.
Hmm…not really. You can employ tall gearing and that itself acts as a huge resistance.



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Old 1st March 2014, 11:27   #122
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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If your bike has humongous weight, then it’s probably better to have humongous torque to pull it right? Would be pretty sad to ride otherwise.
That's looking at the argument I was making from the other end. What I said was that there is no great thing of hugely heavy bikes having big on paper torque nubers, because most of those numbers are captive utilization to overcome the weight of the bike itself. So on road, such "torquey" heavyweights get regularly out dragged and out pulled by bikes with much lower on paper torque figures. Most bikers prefer on road performance versus on paper/on screen stats.

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Hmm…not really. You can employ tall gearing and that itself acts as a huge resistance.
The bikes are not doing anyone a favor by emplying higher gears. They are working within the limitations of their design envelopes. Don't know much about the Harleys so will limit my comment to their desi cousins, the Bullets, which I know very well. The metallurgy and machining of the Bullet and its previous century technology does not allow it to pull big revs. Most Bullets (yes, regardless of which generation engine, standard, avl, uce) are done and dusted between 4000 to 5000 rpm.

Now when you pull such low rpm there are only two ways of reaching respectable speeds. (1) Displace more volume for each power stroke; and (2) gear the bike such that the lower gears are really low (to get the huge weight of the bike moving from standstill and up to some momentum build up) and the higher gears are much higher to be able to utilize the built up inertia of the (purposely) heavy flywheel effect of the now chugging crank and the momentum of 200+ kilos of metal on the move, so that the bike lopes along at its limited top "redline" rpm but still manages near respectable speeds.

Gear the top gears short and make the gearbox a close ratio one and you'll probably have a rocket - till 80-90 kmph.

So I repeat. That defence (of tall gearing) is not a defence. Per se.

For the bike, its what's needed. Because end of the day, as has been seen by many bikers when they experiment, gearing is always about robbing Peter to pay Paul. To gain something somewhere, you'll necessarily lose something some place else. You just need to decide what you can live with versus what you cannot live without.

Last edited by ebonho : 1st March 2014 at 11:34.
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Old 1st March 2014, 13:17   #123
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

As per one guy from the HDstreet forum who has just booked the bike this morning -
1. the mileage is indeed 22 highway ON TEST CONDITION !!!!
2. they are not firing up the engine , basically one can only sit on the bike and look at it .

The person who booked it didn't even bother asking about performance figures :O
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Old 1st March 2014, 13:44   #124
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

22 kpl from a 750 cc V twin is ok bro. 390 cc and 500 cc singles are giving 25-30 kmpl. I do not think fuel mileage will be an issue on this bike. I, like most of us are, am eagerly waiting to see what it can do on the road. I am hoping it can at least do a respectable ton. If so, and if it comes with India tuned ground clearance and suspension, plus it is oil cooled, at 4.5 lacs it would be a great way for common guys to buy into the Harley scene. I think it looks the part frankly - just the rubber boots over the fork tubes and the MRF Nylogrips are killing it for me. Otherwise it looks like a pretty neat mini Night Rod type bike.

Last edited by ebonho : 1st March 2014 at 13:49.
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Old 1st March 2014, 13:49   #125
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
the mileage is indeed 22 highway ON TEST CONDITION !!!!
C'mon mate. Don't bother about mileage on a 750cc bike. Yes, performance is important but the passion is the core.

Tip: Go watch "The World's Fastest Indian" before handing them your money and I betcha you are gonna forget all about mileage...
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Old 1st March 2014, 13:55   #126
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
22 kpl from a 750 cc V twin is ok bro. 390 cc and 500 cc singles are giving 25-30 kmpl. I do not think fuel mileage will be an issue on this bike. I, like most of us are, am eagerly waiting to see what it can do on the road. I am hoping it can at least do a respectable ton. If so, and if it comes with India tuned ground clearance and suspension, plus it is oil cooled, at 4.5 lacs it would be a great way for common guys to buy into the Harley scene. I think it looks the part frankly - just the rubber boots over the fork tubes and the MRF Nylogrips are killing it for me. Otherwise it looks like a pretty neat mini Night Rod type bike.
I'm slightly dissapointed by mileage because the higher capacity iron returns the same numbers but yes compared to the 500cc's , it is more or less within reason . Hope the street is better on performance front , it has no excuse not to be - overhead cam , 8000rpm readline(5,500 iron) , 40kg lighter .

Suspension and clearance are best in class , suspension has 2" more travel than any other harley bike and clearance 2" more as well . Yes overall it looks a good package though not firing up the engine might delay the order from my side. Simply won't go ahead without checking exhaust note , this is the least they can do. Leaving for kolkata in a few hours , will visit the showroom there next week . Will try to gather as much information as I can .
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Old 1st March 2014, 13:59   #127
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by basuroy View Post
I'm slightly dissapointed by mileage because the higher capacity iron returns the same numbers but yes compared to the 500cc's , it is more or less within reason . Hope the street is better on performance front , it has no excuse not to be - overhead cam , 8000rpm readline(5,500 iron) , 40kg lighter .

Suspension and clearance are best in class , suspension has 2" more travel than any other harley bike and clearance 2" more as well . Yes overall it looks a good package though not firing up the engine might delay the order from my side. Simply won't go ahead without checking exhaust note , this is the least they can do. Leaving for kolkata in a few hours , will visit the showroom there next week . Will try to gather as much information as I can .
I am looking forward to a good detailed ownership thread from you on this one. You surely seem to be going into this with your eyes open and with proper Team BHP style homework.

Yes, it does look like the slightly "disappointing" mileage will be beter compensated for with performance on the road. There is no magic to performance actually. Any mechanical action for that matter. Energy has to be converted. The more the energy, the greater the action.

P.S. I did not know this came with an overhead (chain driven?) cam. In that case its highly unlikely its going to have the traditional Harley firing.

Last edited by ebonho : 1st March 2014 at 14:06.
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Old 1st March 2014, 17:05   #128
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Just came back from the display experience of HD 750 Street at Hyd showroom. The bike is awesome and feels/ looks a lot better than in pictures.

The design is pretty good and have pointed the following 'not so good' areas to HD company representative( not the showroom staff):

1. Left lane indicator switch looks tacky
2. Wiring behind head lamp on the right side and bundled wires below the seat/ fuel tank area are an eye sore
3. Head lamp does not carry the HD logo

Otherwise, the bike is a winner and HD sure has hit a sweet spot!

The wait starts now.... again....!
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Old 1st March 2014, 17:13   #129
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by getsurya View Post
The bike is awesome and feels/ looks a lot better than in pictures.
How does it sound? Did you guys know that this motor has not been built (or should I say, designed) by Harley but actually by Porsche?
And the fact that its a 60 degree twin compared to the traditional 45 degree Harley twins, means the potato potato beat will not be there (also due to the overhead chain driven cams rather than the pushrods). All good signs from a better performance and reliability perspective.

And here is some serious eye candy - now this is how a cafe racer should be built! Presenting the Street Cafe .....

Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa-street-cafe.jpg

The above comes with the forks and suspension and rubber that this bike should actually have come with in the first place. And in my favorite color as well!

P.S. Just checked. I missed this bike on the first page of the thread. Very neatly done.

Last edited by ebonho : 1st March 2014 at 17:20.
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Old 1st March 2014, 20:13   #130
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

^
Some more 750 customs that I shot at IBW

Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa-ibw_10_street-custom.jpg

Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa-ibw_11_street-custom.jpg

Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa-ibw_12_street-custom.jpg

Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa-ibw_13_street-custom.jpg

Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa-ibw_14_street-custom.jpg
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Old 1st March 2014, 20:18   #131
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

There seems to be a price drop of about Rs.15,000/- at least in 2 models i was following - Fat Boy & Super Glide Custom - not sure about other models. Source: official website: http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_IN...bmLocale=en_IN
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Old 2nd March 2014, 03:34   #132
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
How does it sound? Did you guys know that this motor has not been built (or should I say, designed) by Harley but actually by Porsche?
And the fact that its a 60 degree twin compared to the traditional 45 degree Harley twins, means the potato potato beat will not be there (also due to the overhead chain driven cams rather than the pushrods). All good signs from a better performance and reliability perspective.
Well, then for sure it is a scaled down version of the VRod since these are the exact same specs it has on its 1250cc vtwin.
I feel its a good deal getting that kind of engine on this bike although the difference in feel and thoughts would be like the cast iron Bullets to the UCE.
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Old 2nd March 2014, 07:41   #133
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Quote:
How does it sound? Did you guys know that this motor has not been built (or should I say, designed) by Harley but actually by Porsche?
Hi Ebonho,

Sorry for a delayed response. The bike was not allowed to be heard in real, rather on the TV monitors with the ad. So, cannot comment on the exhaust note, however the HD representative said that much has been done and spent on trying to retain the signature beat of the HD on the Street!

Porsche doing the engine design is sweet news to my ears, where did you get that information from?

Adding to the list of 'gripes':

1. Left lane indicator switch looks tacky
2. Wiring behind head lamp on the right side and bundled wires below the seat/ fuel tank area are an eye sore
3. Head lamp does not carry the HD logo
4. The bullet indicators look very cheap on an expensive bike, not sturdy too

Some close up picture shoot from yesterday's "meet the Street 750" program, for your viewing pleasure

Pictures continued...
Attached Images
              

Last edited by n_aditya : 11th March 2014 at 18:51. Reason: Posts merged
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Old 2nd March 2014, 07:59   #134
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Originally Posted by getsurya View Post
2. Wiring behind head lamp on the right side and bundled wires below the seat/ fuel tank area are an eye sore
I was thinking it was some kind of cushion/padding to protect the human from the engine and the heat it generates. Hope these small flaws are not seen in the production ready bikes.

OT:

Why do manufacturers provide such small looking mudguards when they know water/muck/dirt will spalsh from front tyre and moreover onto the radiator that is very crucial. Won't the radiator get damaged? To me it looks like cosy saving types.

Styling is the issue but practicality is what I feel lacks here.

Anurag.
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Old 2nd March 2014, 18:43   #135
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Default Re: Harley-Davidson Street 750 for India: Unveiled @ Goa

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I am looking forward to a good detailed ownership thread from you on this one. You surely seem to be going into this with your eyes open and with proper Team BHP style homework.

Yes, it does look like the slightly "disappointing" mileage will be beter compensated for with performance on the road. There is no magic to performance actually. Any mechanical action for that matter. Energy has to be converted. The more the energy, the greater the action.

P.S. I did not know this came with an overhead (chain driven?) cam. In that case its highly unlikely its going to have the traditional Harley firing.
yes this seems to be the bike for me but that is a lot down to no other offering in the 3-5 lakhs bracket for leisure biking.

Seems like Harley is taking customers for granted though , a friend today visited delhi showroom and couldn't receive answers for basic question like whether the 6th gear is an overdrive or not. On being asked about performance he and others from the hdstreet forum reported the same answer - "weaker than iron".

Now if it is returning same economy and is still weaker , then either they are really speaking the truth in which case im lost for words or they are blatantly lying to shield the iron because it costs a whopping 3.5 lakhs more. Won't look good if they said the street was faster , they are also falling back to the common indian misconception - "the 883cc iron is higher displacement so it will be faster (as per my friend , the salesman said this as if he was stating the obvious lol)". But refusal to hand out test rides or even fire up the engine can't help but add to this doubt . There is no reason not to start the bike atleast.

@dkaile , yes I agree it is the experience that matters. Don't get me wrong , I'm not focussing on the mileage or performance aspect because of fuel price(though it helps ) or top speed(never intend to hit it in bareilly ) but because I want to judge the engine itself. If both fail to satisfy , then I will be dissapointed. Will I still go ahead ? I guess yes , it will take a catastrophic dissapointment to affect my decision .


Btw someone above asked if prosche had a hand , no they didnt directly in this bike(atleast nothing has been reported as such) but the street 750 is a direct sibling of the v-rod revolution motor which is a 100% porsche creation . The original v-rods even had higher number of german made/casted and french parts than american. There are certain differences like v-rod is dual overhead cam while street is single overhead cam and as per some v-rod experts , the oil cooling lines look different but overall they are similar. The v-rod is 1250cc and rated at 120+hp and 9000 rpm redline , the rumoured figures for the 750cc street are 44-56bhp and 8000rpm redline. The question begs why HD reps are saying it is the weakest of the lot because if that is the case , it is a dud.

Last edited by basuroy : 2nd March 2014 at 18:55.
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