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Old 12th March 2014, 05:07   #256
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Saw the most horrendous scene yesterday in Dwarka, New Delhi. To give you a perspective, most of the roads in this locality are super smooth. There was this guy on his Superlow puttering around in all it's glory and suddenly on a very slight curve; it's silencer scraped. It was a sad scene.
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Old 12th March 2014, 07:53   #257
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

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Originally Posted by abhjain View Post
Saw the most horrendous scene yesterday in Dwarka, New Delhi. To give you a perspective, most of the roads in this locality are super smooth. There was this guy on his Superlow puttering around in all it's glory and suddenly on a very slight curve; it's silencer scraped. It was a sad scene.
Iam familiar with most localities in Delhi as I have family there and visit often. I have seen plenty of such scenes here in Hyderabad which if your not familar with has roads equal to or sometimes better than Delhi

Therefore, Superlow was not even in my consideration list when I started looking out to buy a Harley or Triumph
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Old 12th March 2014, 13:11   #258
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

Note from Support - Thread cleaned up. Please discuss both bikes in an objective manner and avoid fanboy-ish type of posts. Any OT posts henceforth will be deleted along with infractions being handed out.

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Old 13th March 2014, 15:32   #259
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

My memory fails me but I heard somewhere there are only 2 types of bikers – Ones that have fallen down and others who will fall down or something like that!! Now I am not a subscriber to the “Pants on fire” riding style but bikes irrespective of the make, model and power have a risk element to them and let’s be honest isn’t that what makes this fun.

The most brilliant rider can make mistakes besides even if you are the epitome of safe riding the world has enough idiots using their vehicles the wrong way to put you in a tight spot. The essence is knowing the limits of your machine and more importantly your own. I am really sorry for what happened to the poor chap in Dwarka and hope he is ok.

Coming to lean angles, here are some facts on the capabilities of the Harley family. You can check others at this site.

Model Left (in deg) Right (in deg)
Superlow 24.4 24.7
Iron 30 29
Street Bob 31 30

I read somewhere the Bonnie is capable of about 35 degrees of lean but my Triumph friends can confirm. What ever you ride...enjoy and ride Safe
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Old 15th March 2014, 13:42   #260
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

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Originally Posted by AC_genius View Post
Model Left (in deg) Right (in deg)
Superlow 24.4 24.7
Iron 30 29
Street Bob 31 30

I read somewhere the Bonnie is capable of about 35 degrees of lean but my Triumph friends can confirm. What ever you ride...enjoy and ride Safe

Triumph America states to have a 36deg lean . This is considering 8 inch peg distance from frame and 11 inch peg height from ground. The Mag wheel version with 17 inch wheels should be 2 deg more and the T100 should be 3deg further.

Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville-bonnie.jpg

And as you so rightly put it, the practical exercise shall be conducted soon and thread shall be updated for effects of 90deg lean .

Last edited by absynthguzzler : 15th March 2014 at 14:02.
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Old 15th March 2014, 14:01   #261
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

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Originally Posted by absynthguzzler View Post
The Mag wheel version with 17 inch wheels should be 2 deg more and the T100 should be 3deg further.

And as you so rightly put it, the practical exercise shall be conducted soon and thread shall be updated for effects of 90deg lean .
Arun, Are you saying the Bonnie SE is 38 degree Lean and T100 is 39 degrees? Some layman explanation of how it effects/improves the handling?

What you mean by the effects of a 90 Degree Lean?
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Old 15th March 2014, 14:06   #262
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Arun, Are you saying the Bonnie SE is 38 degree Lean and T100 is 39 degrees? Some layman explanation of how it effects/improves the handling?

What you mean by the effects of a 90 Degree Lean?

Se is 38 because our pegs do not stick as far out as Triumph America . T100 is 39 because of the 19 inch wheels increasing ground height .

Ive only quoted maximum lean angles. But handling and fall angles will depend on level of grip ,tyres profile and what not.
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Old 15th March 2014, 18:55   #263
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

This is just about it for the cornering abilities of the Superlow (that I have tried) before the peg extensions screech on the road warning you not to go any further or suffer the 90 degree lean effects -

Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville-2011harleysuperlowxl883lcornering.jpg
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Old 16th March 2014, 11:54   #264
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

Looks like the stock seat foam needs an upgrade if one chooses to tour on the bike. The deformation is low for short rides , but takes a whole longer to come back to shape after long rides. Over time, i guess the compressed look will become permanent.

Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville-img20140316wa0001.jpg
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Old 16th March 2014, 19:52   #265
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

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Originally Posted by absynthguzzler View Post
Looks like the stock seat foam needs an upgrade if one chooses to tour on the bike. The deformation is low for short rides , but takes a whole longer to come back to shape after long rides. Over time, i guess the compressed look will become permanent
Boy O Boy Arun, Your are quite observant. I never noticed the compressed seat until you mentioned it. Btw, I dont think it gets compressed as it's just the angle from where the picture was taken

You may have the other picture of your Bonnie in same position from a different angle with Downsouth Wife posing next to it. Check that picture, the seats look perfectly normal
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Old 17th March 2014, 10:28   #266
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

Hi Avi,

Just one question. I know you test rode both the bikes and the Bonnie won your heart over the Iron which made you go for it. But did you not consider the risk that your investment of 7 lakhs could potentially go bad if Triumph were to shut shop in India or offer poor service considering the way things have been shaping up after they launched in India till date?

Just to think about it no local mechanic would be able to even figure out how to open the engine leave alone fixing it. The peace of mind that Harley or even Honda/Kawasaki offer is way more than the comfort level with Triumph for me atleast.

Just wanted to know your thought process as I have been struggling with a similar dilemma but the only saving grace in my case is that Triumph has not even opened for business in the true sense in Bombay.
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Old 17th March 2014, 11:37   #267
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

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Originally Posted by eltoro View Post
Hi Avi,

Just one question. I know you test rode both the bikes and the Bonnie won your heart over the Iron which made you go for it. But did you not consider the risk that your investment of 7 lakhs could potentially go bad if Triumph were to shut shop in India or offer poor service considering the way things have been shaping up after they launched in India till date?

Just to think about it no local mechanic would be able to even figure out how to open the engine leave alone fixing it. The peace of mind that Harley or even Honda/Kawasaki offer is way more than the comfort level with Triumph for me atleast.

Just wanted to know your thought process as I have been struggling with a similar dilemma but the only saving grace in my case is that Triumph has not even opened for business in the true sense in Bombay.
If one gauges the spectrum of bikes sold by Triumph as against a Harley (comparing it to HD since that's what you seek a response upon), its easy to conclude that a broad range of customers are being dealt with here .

Explorer for the adventure touring clan
Daytona for the racing and street performance clan
Storm and Rocket for long distance highway cruising clan
Bonneville and Street/Speed Triple for everyone else that doesn't want to have a prefix to his style - in both life and riding.

Both the Domestic and International markets have shown that Triumph offers options which when tested and reviewed against the competition, is always in the top 5 at-least.

To think that a company with such a respectable line-up and heritage would close shop (barring Govt policy paralysis or changes) is similar to the times when Mercedes arrived.

There's an interesting story behind Mercedes too . Apparently they were reluctant to offer a dealership to Hyderabad when they first arrived. They wanted to focus on the bigger cities like Mumbai and Delhi. However, the local dealer aspirant was hell bent on getting one approved. One can only imagine how tough it would have been to convince the Germans on something which wasn't backed with facts and data. He succeeded and subsequently , Mercedes sold more cars in Hyderabad than both the other big cities combined ( initially atleast) . Perhaps , there's a link to this case study reasoning why Triumph chose Hyderabad before Mumbai and Delhi ?

So your concern that Triumph will shut shop without valid reason and will leave its customers high and dry may be a bit premature. India has matured and the people are responsible for it more than the country and its Govt. Majority of today's businesses in India are setup based on the People's confidence, not on the Govt. Triumph is confident of the same -

Now suppose we consider they shut shop :

Do you think your Team-Bhp members would leave you high and dry ? What's this community for along with its vast knowledge in the sector added with what is contributed in the times to come?

To undermine the skill levels of a local mechanic would also be ill placed. One should know the term "Indian Jugaad" is now taken very seriously by even the very top Management Institutes for research. The reason is simple . India still uses its brains whilst others are dependent on technology to solve their issues. A desi mechanic who may not have touched a Triumph or Harley will scare you, but be assured, when they apply their mind - no one stands a chance to compete with their knowledge. The level of enthusiasm is heightend further when it's a Triumph . "Sirji , mere Pitaji tho isi company gaadi pe sikhaya mere ko " . This added to the fact that the dynamics of any EFI or Carb'ed bike is not different in today's or yesterday's world should assure you from owning and enjoying one. Today's Pulsar is no less advanced and complicated than many of the premium marque bikes ( There are exceptions of course , specially the Italian beauties ) .

A eloquent friend puts your query as follows - "Pondering of what-ifs is same as the "family planning" done post marriage. Just take the plunge and deal with the consequences. Owning and riding one is way less consequential "

Last edited by absynthguzzler : 17th March 2014 at 11:51.
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Old 17th March 2014, 11:51   #268
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

Quote:
Originally Posted by eltoro View Post
Hi Avi,

Just one question. I know you test rode both the bikes and the Bonnie won your heart over the Iron which made you go for it. But did you not consider the risk that your investment of 7 lakhs could potentially go bad if Triumph were to shut shop in India or offer poor service considering the way things have been shaping up after they launched in India till date?

Just to think about it no local mechanic would be able to even figure out how to open the engine leave alone fixing it. The peace of mind that Harley or even Honda/Kawasaki offer is way more than the comfort level with Triumph for me atleast.

Just wanted to know your thought process as I have been struggling with a similar dilemma but the only saving grace in my case is that Triumph has not even opened for business in the true sense in Bombay.

Eltoro,

Though the question is to Avi, as a longer time owner of Bonnie I am taking the liberty to pitch in.

I bought my Bonnie in Dubai in 2009. I had to buy it from another country in the Middle East - Qatar, as there was no dealer for Triumph in UAE then (a sub dealership opened up in mid 2013 only). So essentially I maintained the bike as DIY and it was very easy. I don't know if you have seem my posts in some threads here, where I have mentioned what were the service costs. I think 4 plus years wthout a dealer support is long enough time to take a sfe assumption in this regard.

The engine of Bonnie is really an over engineered one and from experience of other owners (Triumphrate net etc) the requirement to open up the engine happens only due to over tinkering and accident. Even then The engine is really simple and has not changed much in arrangement from the Bonnies or that matter the T3 and T5 of yesteryears except the fuel injection part and the electornic parts (ECU et al) etc. Any good mechanic in India will be able to figure it out relatively easily, with a bit of patience.

Another beauty of Bonnie and some of the other variants is that many of the consumable parts like Brake Pads, Oil Filters and even some of oil seals are common with that of many of the other Japanese bikes being sold in the country hopefully with better network (if we read inbetween the lines of your post). Even the Drive Chain I believe is available in India from Roll On stables

So as I said before bar and accident scenario, maitaining is a Bonney is far far easier than the "Comparison".

Further isn't it little unfair to assume that the service is going to be "poor". The two stores I know of, Hyderabad and Bangalore - the after sale service and presale service has been good and if that is the standard that is being imposed by Triumph, I think we do not have much reason to worry.

The dealer in Kochi, who is gearing up for a mid April opening is also doing his job/home work properly as I had an opportunity to know what is going on there.

Eltoro, another goodthing sofar is that all the dealer so far, seem to be from automobile sale background with atleast some experience under their belt. Hence those guys doing a Ducati/Porche India (I am refering to the earlier woes they had with their dealership in particular) will be reasonably "not happening" (I am keeping my fingers crossed here).

What Triumph is can be judged by the fact that in any of the Cassic/Vintage gathering of two wheelers in India, you will still find a good representation of the Brand in proper running condition than any other brands. I think you will not find much of that era from "comparison" and that in itself should be a testament to the longivity.

So I will conclude that Triumph will be the brand I would prefer to have if I am in a "no service back up scenario" than what is currently avaialbe, and that too Bonnie for the sheer simplycity of the bike.

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram
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Old 18th March 2014, 00:32   #269
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

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Originally Posted by eltoro View Post
But did you not consider the risk that your investment of 7 lakhs could potentially go bad if Triumph were to shut shop in India or offer poor service considering the way things have been shaping up after they launched in India till date?

Just to think about it no local mechanic would be able to even figure out how to open the engine leave alone fixing it. The peace of mind that Harley or even Honda/Kawasaki offer is way more than the comfort level with Triumph for me atleast.
Personally I give importance to performance over everything else and hence my decision of buying the Bonnie. As mentioned initially in this thread, I was waiting for Triumph to come to India and wanted to pit it against a similar capacity bike which I did just to satisfy myself that iam not making a mistake of buying the Bonnie without riding the competition.

Absythguzzler and Ram have addressed your query quite aptly and I concur with their thoughts.

My decision to buy the Bonnie was largely based on two people after thoroughly liking the bike after my test rides :-

Ram is a Bonnie owner from 2009 and anyone will trust a long time owner like him with sufficient biking experience and also of owning big capacity bikes that included an Iron 883 quoting that Bonnie is the best bike he ever owned in his life than any other "thoughts" shared on our forum which has almost negligible information on Triumph ( I think that will change in near future)

Just a few offline conversations with him was enough to decide on buying the Bonnie and thankfully it turned out to be the best automobile purchase decision of my life.

Secondly, Arun ( Absynthguzzler) is a technical wizard and has built a race car from scratch and is the fastest indian ( Amby Valley Run) and has done so many DIY's, your eyes will pop out if i start listing them out..LOL

He has done some research prior to he buying his Bonnie .

And when I test rode the bike and fell in love with it, I simply asked him one question, Should I go ahead and buy it and whether technically is it a good bike? He said " "Go Ahead with eyes closed". That was enough for me as I know there is someone technically as savvy as Arun to fall back on for any advice

Btw, Arun bought his Bonnie without even riding it once, now thats what i call true instincts....That aside he has already done a few DIY's on his Bonnie and has a list of future DIY's as long as my arm

With regards to Triumph leaving India and leaving us in lurch. Honestly speaking that never crossed my mind at all. My thought process is not so far fetched. I just go with my instincts which also have thankfully till date never let me down.

I will say this yet again, I urge all prospective buyers considering either of the bikes.

Please ride the Triumph Bonneville & Iron 883 and then decide on whichever bike you like . Nothing can open your eyes as much as a back to back test ride !!!

Last edited by mobike008 : 18th March 2014 at 00:38.
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Old 18th March 2014, 21:38   #270
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Default Re: Comparison Report: Harley Davidson Iron 883 vs Triumph Bonneville

Quote:
Originally Posted by eltoro View Post
Hi Avi,

Just one question. I know you test rode both the bikes and the Bonnie won your heart over the Iron which made you go for it. But did you not consider the risk that your investment of 7 lakhs could potentially go bad if Triumph were to shut shop in India or offer poor service considering the way things have been shaping up after they launched in India till date?

Just to think about it no local mechanic would be able to even figure out how to open the engine leave alone fixing it. The peace of mind that Harley or even Honda/Kawasaki offer is way more than the comfort level with Triumph for me atleast.

Just wanted to know your thought process as I have been struggling with a similar dilemma but the only saving grace in my case is that Triumph has not even opened for business in the true sense in Bombay.
I am sanguine that your apprehensions about Triumph 'shutting shop' and offering poor service in India(if it does not 'shut shop') has been adequately addressed by mobike008 and absynthguzzler.

I understand that you are quite erudite as far as bikes are concerned. Your culpable involvement for attaining peace of mind by acquiring a Harley/Honda/Kawasaki is astounding. But don't you feel that a bullock cart will help in achieving a higher state of nirvana as it has minimal chances of developing technical glitches?

Excuse my ignorance, but yet we don't end up investing in a bullock cart just because it has the least maintenance! There has to be some logic in the comparison, and ultimately choosing the Triumph over the Harley Davidson. If you accomplish the fact that Triumph is better than Harley Davidson, then you must buy the better ware! Why would you invest in something which is inferior just because your foreboding with a moniker which has entered our market recently. Holistically, both Triumph and Harley Davidson are new in this territory, ergo there are quite a few chances, if not equal, that HD 'shuts shop' here.

As far as opening the engine is concerned by a local mechanic, firstly, it is highly recommended that you belly up a non-local mechanic, duly taking advice of this forum and, secondly, why would you feel that one would requires to open up the engine in a hurry?! Pray relax. Triumph is a globally renowned marquee, which has been more appreciated than HD. It is not shutting shop anytime soon. And moreover, its endurance is phenomenal.

My take on the HD vis a vis Triumph goes back to 2006, when I got a chance to ride both the bikes neck to neck in Cape Town, South Africa. I must put on record that it has been 26 years that I've riding motorcycles, and that includes Bullets(with its associated glitches) also. After 1997, my garage always had a Bullet(till date). I had come across a few HDs in India, but never a Triumph(except in Auto Expos) till the time I reached Cape Town. My interest in motorcycles led me to read about both the brands earlier and I was armed with adequate theoretical facts. So, after reaching Cape Town I approached a vendor who used to rent out bikes. My hunger to ride a powerful machine led me to hire a Black 1600cc Harley Davidson. The power of the engine did put a smile on my face as I paid its rental for the fifteen day duration I intended to stay.

I submit my experiences very briefly with this motorcycle. The initial thrust of the bike was tremendous which I'm sure comes from the high torque figures. Straight line stability was immense and it was amazing to ride on an open road devoid of traffic. The sound was impressive(I'm not sure whether it had stock tail pipes or otherwise), which was obvious due to the size of the engine. Gradually, the bike started giving me a feel of a glorified Bullet. I felt similar kind of vibrations from the handle bars and my palms itched after longer rides. Riding it in the city and negotiating it around was a pain. To make a U-turn one had to plan in advance as its turning radius had figures on the higher side. Since, I was riding solo, it was at times quite arduous to pull it out in reverse from parkings, especially, when parked on the berm. It never delivered the sense of urgency to move. Although, the top speed figures were impressive, but reaching to such figures was not. In all, I used the steed for somewhere around 500 km when I started equating it into a cumbersome but an attractive piece of machinery.

With two thirds of my time of stay was still left in that place, I requested the vendor to change the bike to a very beautiful cherry red Triumph Bonneville 790cc. The vendor honored my request and I rode out on the Bonny feeling very much at home with the same stance of seating as the Bullet. I felt that it was equally attractive as the previous steed as this machine was producing a distinctive sound of a typical twin motor and as whole it looked very clean and uncomplicated compared to what I was riding the previous day. It handled like breeze in the traffic of city confines and was equally steadfast on the highway. To my astonishment it picked up speed faster that the bigger machine which I rode. The feel of torque from the bike was less but was up to snuff. The weight was very manageable and so was the size(It was not small to any standards). I could clock around a thousand km on this bike till it was the time for me to leave that country. The vibration levels were far lesser on this bike and hence it did not give a feel on itchiness on the palms and also since the fatigue to handle it was less it left me fresher and less tired.

By no means, Triumph is offering me any brownies for giving such a feedback, however, eltoro, it is recommended that you try out both the bikes before jumping to any conclusion and end up investing into something with false apprehensions.
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