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Old 13th April 2014, 08:16   #271
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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Today went to a friendly neighbourhood guy and got the Triumph Logo at the back seat painted. Originally, logo was just etched into seat and unlike

T100 wasn't painted in gold.



Don't you think it's worth it?

Avi, it's totally worth and a nice job. The logo work accentuates the overall appeal!
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Old 13th April 2014, 10:41   #272
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

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Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
Rode the Bonnie today and absolutely loved it. I rode the street triple back to back and surprisingly actually preferred the Bonnie. It's just a little more calm and laid back compared to the triple which is a bit more manic and feels as if it constantly needs to be on the boil. I also liked the sound of the Bonnie much more. The triple is much closer to a parallel twin type whine which I don't like too much.
Congratulations on honing down to Bonnie. Myself and atleast a few handful of people I know felt exactly the same when riding the Bonnie and ST back to back which i have done number of times. ST is little too impatient and will work for people looking at being on edge at all times. But, I liked it's sound though.....a typical high revving whine even at idle

Bonnie is practical option in every sense and floors you with its handling and power delivering characteristics.

IMO, its a bike that you can go to your neighbourhood grocery store to buy bread,butter and eggs and also keep up with most superbikes on a highway.

Please show me a bike with such versatality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
Suggestion: Please take a test ride of the Kawasaki Ninja 650 (different beauties though) and then decide. Its less expensive as well at INR 5.5 lacs approximately versus the Bonnie at INR 6.77 lacs. Both prices on road Bombay. I found the Ninja to be more comfortable and planted on the road.
I have not ridden N650 but, rode the N250. Bonnie and Ninja are as different bikes as you can get out there. One's a street bike and another is sports

If someone likes Bonnie, in most probability he will not like Ninja primarily for these reasons :-

1. Riding Posture (Comfortable vs. crouch posture)
2. Instant accelaration vs. High revving machine ( N250 felt powerless in comparison)
3. Handling of Bonnie is superior than N250 (Atleast that's how I felt)
4. Touring ( Iam given to understand N650 is comfortable for long touring unlike N250)

That's my 2 cents

Btw, thanks for sharing the PDF document of the Bonnie accessories. Wish these dealers even quoted the prices in them...Sigh !!!

Last edited by mobike008 : 13th April 2014 at 10:45.
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Old 13th April 2014, 11:38   #273
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
I have not ridden N650 but, rode the N250. Bonnie and Ninja are as different bikes as you can get out there. One's a street bike and another is sports
If someone likes Bonnie, in most probability he will not like Ninja primarily for these reasons :-
1. Riding Posture (Comfortable vs. crouch posture)
2. Instant accelaration vs. High revving machine ( N250 felt powerless in comparison)
3. Handling of Bonnie is superior than N250 (Atleast that's how I felt)
4. Touring ( Iam given to understand N650 is comfortable for long touring unlike N250)
That's my 2 cents
Btw, thanks for sharing the PDF document of the Bonnie accessories. Wish these dealers even quoted the prices in them...Sigh !!!
Mobike008, agreed they are different bikes (said so in my post). However, the N250 (have not ridden this one, have seen it though) and N650 are again different. The N650 is not a crouching position at all, trust me, you have to ride it to experience the comfort, torque, practical nature and power. The seat on the N650 is wider and much more comfortable than the Bonnie stock seat (rider and pillion). The difference in weight between the two bikes is approximately 10 kilos with the Bonnie being heavier. Its a beautiful union of all aspects as well, besides being less expensive by INR 1.30 lacs. N650 is also a bike which you can go to buy milk and eggs

You are welcome regarding the brochure cum accessories list. The approximate pricing for a few products could be as follows:
1. King and Queen seat - approx INR 15,000.00
2. Tacho conversion kit - approx INR 15,000.00
3. Lockable fuel tank cover - approx INR 3,000.00

The above accessories are important for me and mind you the above three points are covered by the N650 from the factory. The seat as already mentioned earlier for the N650 is already perfect (no real need for a change).

Your views in the Harley Davidson versus the Bonnie thread are very much in line with my take, found them very clear and unbiased. Please do ride the N650 and share your perspective.

Cheers
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Old 13th April 2014, 13:53   #274
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

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Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
N650 is also a bike which you can go to buy milk and eggs
Would you like to rethink on this comment? Will you be able to come back home in one piece without getting mobbed or lady owner of that grocery store making passes at you? After all its a good-looking sports bike

With a Bonnie, you can be sure that they wont give you a second look...Hehe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
You are welcome regarding the brochure cum accessories list. The approximate pricing for a few products could be as follows:
1. King and Queen seat - approx INR 15,000.00
2. Tacho conversion kit - approx INR 15,000.00
3. Lockable fuel tank cover - approx INR 3,000.00

The above accessories are important for me and mind you the above three points are covered by the N650 from the factory.
I miss the tachometer badly and agree should have been part of stock feature of the Bonnie. But, I doubt the tacho conversit kit can be as cheap as 15 grand. Internationally its $300 ++

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
The seat as already mentioned earlier for the N650 is already perfect (no real need for a change)
Bonnie seats are extremely comfortable. I have clocked 1600kms till date and did many 300kms total rides and never reached home with my backside on fire.

My wife commented also many times its comfortable (ofcourse, she was comparing it with our Classic 500)

We are riding to Bangalore week after next and that trip will tell me if Bonnie seats are indeed comfortable or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
Your views in the Harley Davidson versus the Bonnie thread are very much in line with my take, found them very clear and unbiased. Please do ride the N650 and share your perspective.
Thanks and glad to know you feel its unbaised.

I hope you may have also noted that I never talked about "Triumph" in my ownership thread but, all merits/demerits related only to model that I bought ("Bonneville") unlike a few Harley owners who usually linger longer than necessary on HD Fraternity, HOG culture, Brotherhood/Sisterhood/Cousinhood, etc than the actual bike itself

Will certainly ride the N650 at the next given opportunity and share my feedback here !!!
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Old 13th April 2014, 14:51   #275
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Would you like to rethink on this comment? Will you be able to come back home in one piece without getting mobbed or lady owner of that grocery store making passes at you? After all its a good-looking sports bike
With a Bonnie, you can be sure that they wont give you a second look...Hehe!

That's a good one Mobike008! Now depends on whether the lady owner of the grocery store is good looking


I miss the tachometer badly and agree should have been part of stock feature of the Bonnie. But, I doubt the tacho conversit kit can be as cheap as 15 grand. Internationally its $300 ++

USD 300.00 is approximately INR 18,000.00. The quote of INR 15,000.00 is a ballpark figure as mentioned earlier.

Bonnie seats are extremely comfortable. I have clocked 1600kms till date and did many 300kms total rides and never reached home with my backside on fire.
My wife commented also many times its comfortable (ofcourse, she was comparing it with our Classic 500)
We are riding to Bangalore week after next and that trip will tell me if Bonnie seats are indeed comfortable or not.

I never said the Bonnie's seat is not comfortable. What I said is the N650's seat is much better comparatively.

Thanks and glad to know you feel its unbaised.
I hope you may have also noted that I never talked about "Triumph" in my ownership thread but, all merits/demerits related only to model that I bought ("Bonneville") unlike a few Harley owners who usually linger longer than necessary on HD Fraternity, HOG culture, Brotherhood/Sisterhood/Cousinhood, etc than the actual bike itself


Will certainly ride the N650 at the next given opportunity and share my feedback here !!!
You do that mate and let us know.

Ride safe.

Cheers

Last edited by Cyborg : 13th April 2014 at 14:53. Reason: Converted replies to bold
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Old 14th April 2014, 11:00   #276
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

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Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
Mobike008, agreed they are different bikes (said so in my post). However, the N250 (have not ridden this one, have seen it though) and N650 are again different. The N650 is not a crouching position at all, trust me, you have to ride it to experience the comfort, torque, practical nature and power. The seat on the N650 is wider and much more comfortable than the Bonnie stock seat (rider and pillion). The difference in weight between the two bikes is approximately 10 kilos with the Bonnie being heavier. Its a beautiful union of all aspects as well, besides being less expensive by INR 1.30 lacs. N650 is also a bike which you can go to buy milk and eggs
I own Ninja 650 which is only 8 months old, clocked 6500 KM on it. And I am moving to Bonneville once I get good price of my Ninja 650, which is on sell on olx pune as well on team-bhp classified

Yesterday 3rd test ride of bonny confirmed that bonny is more comfortable than Ninja 650, back to back ride. Just get down from Ninja and within minute I was riding Bonny.

Bonny's gear shift also sleek and smooth compare to my Ninja.

Ninja's engine is 90 degree twin, means both the cylinder goes up and down together whereas Bonny's engine is 180 degree, one goes up another down which also helps producing that twin cylinder sound. Ninja's supension is very soft, I rode it on every kind of road and no complaint there. But these soft suspension make bikes very unstable while sudden braking. I need to be extra careful when in speed above 120. At this speed I am more confident on my Duke 200 than Ninja.

To handle Ninja you need shoulder power, while bonny you don't. Also Ninja need's more gear shifting compare to bonny. My wife dont like Ninja's pillion seat. On each braking, I have to handle Ninja's weight and my wife's weight on my shoulder. Where as on bonny she felt more comfortable and my shoulder were not complaining.

So what is good in Ninja ? well, when in traffic you can zip it fast by snake riding while in bonny you cant do it. Wind blast is less on Ninja. Ninja is quicker, it has more features than bonny, much cheaper, very good after sales support from Bajaj, recently I got replaced rear disc of my Ninja under warranty.

I also test rode Harley 750, rocket like acceleration, felt quicker than Ninja. good suspension, light in traffic but engine is not smooth. I don't like cruiser bike, otherwise might have thinking of buying it.

Last edited by mobike008 : 14th April 2014 at 13:49. Reason: Please dont quote high speed numbers. Thanks
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Old 14th April 2014, 11:36   #277
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Would you like to rethink on this comment? Will you be able to come back home in one piece without getting mobbed or lady owner of that grocery store making passes at you? After all its a good-looking sports bike

With a Bonnie, you can be sure that they wont give you a second look...Hehe!
I have been neglecting household chores off late. Think I'll start off slow.

Milk and egg runs sound just about ok. And build from there .....
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Old 14th April 2014, 12:07   #278
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

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Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar View Post
Ninja's engine is 90 degree twin, means both the cylinder goes up and down together whereas Bonny's engine is 180 degree, one goes up another down which also helps producing that twin cylinder sound.
Whilst welcoming your bias to Bonney, please note the facts right as well.

Bonney has a 360 deg, firing which means both cylinders rise and fall together with alternate cylinders firing. Its a Parrallel Twin and not a Flat Twin (which fires at 180 degree)

Triumph Scrambler and I think the big bore one - America are firing at 270 degree - again parralle twin though

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram

Last edited by r_nairtvm : 14th April 2014 at 12:15.
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Old 14th April 2014, 12:18   #279
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

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Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar View Post
To handle Ninja you need shoulder power, while bonny you don't. Also Ninja need's more gear shifting compare to bonny. My wife dont like Ninja's pillion seat. On each braking, I have to handle Ninja's weight and my wife's weight on my shoulder. Where as on bonny she felt more comfortable and my shoulder were not complaining.
I am surprised as a tenured rider you allow your pillion to anchor / hold on to your shoulders. Its impossible to ride like that. Grip the waist if need be. Keep away from my shoulders!
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Old 14th April 2014, 12:50   #280
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

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Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
Suggestion: Please take a test ride of the Kawasaki Ninja 650 (different beauties though) and then decide. Its less expensive as well at INR 5.5 lacs approximately versus the Bonnie at INR 6.77 lacs. Both prices on road Bombay. I found the Ninja to be more comfortable and planted on the road.
I actually hired a N650 in Thailand once so rode it for a few days quite extensively. Its a nice enough bike but frankly I didn't like it enough to make me want to buy it. I actually hired it specifically to experience the bike to make a purchase decision - didn't happen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Congratulations on honing down to Bonnie. Myself and atleast a few handful of people I know felt exactly the same when riding the Bonnie and ST back to back which i have done number of times. ST is little too impatient and will work for people looking at being on edge at all times. But, I liked it's sound though.....a typical high revving whine even at idle

Bonnie is practical option in every sense and floors you with its handling and power delivering characteristics.

IMO, its a bike that you can go to your neighbourhood grocery store to buy bread,butter and eggs and also keep up with most superbikes on a highway.

I have not ridden N650 but, rode the N250. Bonnie and Ninja are as different bikes as you can get out there. One's a street bike and another is sports

If someone likes Bonnie, in most probability he will not like Ninja primarily for these reasons :-

1. Riding Posture (Comfortable vs. crouch posture)
2. Instant accelaration vs. High revving machine ( N250 felt powerless in comparison)
3. Handling of Bonnie is superior than N250 (Atleast that's how I felt)
4. Touring ( Iam given to understand N650 is comfortable for long touring unlike N250)
Agree on general notes on Bonnie advantages. To me, I don't want a bike that's so urgent. I prefer something that's happy to be driven more relaxed as that's how I see myself riding it. And like you said, its capable of being ripped when required - enough to be able to generally keep up with sportier bikes (before people start quoting me track timings).

The N650 & N 250 are actually very different riding positions as mentioned by Cyborg. The former is much more upright and street bike like and not sports bike like. But regardless of course, I thought the Bonnie seat was really comfortable enough for me. I'm also pretty short so the lower seat height works well for my comfort - that's very personal of course. Its one of the few bikes where I can appreciate a reasonably wide seat because of the low ride height. In higher bikes I prefer the seat to be narrower just to make the height more manageable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
You are welcome regarding the brochure cum accessories list. The approximate pricing for a few products could be as follows:
1. King and Queen seat - approx INR 15,000.00
2. Tacho conversion kit - approx INR 15,000.00
3. Lockable fuel tank cover - approx INR 3,000.00

Your views in the Harley Davidson versus the Bonnie thread are very much in line with my take, found them very clear and unbiased.
Pts 2. and 3. are the ones I'd want as well as a minimum. The seat I'd really take a call on only later if I'm really uncomfortable and riding long enough distances to warrant the change. Based on my short ride I suspect I'll find it comfortable enough.

Thanks for the accessories prices btw - I also had the brochure but with POA written against accessories.
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Old 14th April 2014, 13:46   #281
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

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Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar View Post
Ninja's supension is very soft, I rode it on every kind of road and no complaint there. But these soft suspension make bikes very unstable while sudden braking. I need to be extra careful when in speed above 120. At this speed I am more confident on my Duke 200 than Ninja.

Pawan, there are seven load adjustments/settings on your rear monoshock, perhaps you could stiffen the load as per your requirements. You should also upgrade your brake lines to steel braided and change the brake pads as well.

To handle Ninja you need shoulder power, while bonny you don't. Also Ninja need's more gear shifting compare to bonny. My wife dont like Ninja's pillion seat. On each braking, I have to handle Ninja's weight and my wife's weight on my shoulder. Where as on bonny she felt more comfortable and my shoulder were not complaining.

Pillion riding is also an art - this needs looking into/amending as things could get dangerous at higher speeds in the way you mention regardless of the bike.


Wind blast is less on Ninja. Ninja is quicker, it has more features than bonny, much cheaper, very good after sales support from Bajaj, recently I got replaced rear disc of my Ninja under warranty.
You say the N650 gets unstable at high speed while sudden braking, yet touch the kind of speed mentioned - dangerous brother, be careful. Also, please do not mention that kind of speed on the forum as you may invoke our moderators ire

The above are my views, its your money and fun - choose wisely and be happy

Cheers

Last edited by mobike008 : 14th April 2014 at 13:51. Reason: Edited the top speed mentioned in Pawan quoted post...Please do not use BOLD quoted replies for every post...Thanks
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Old 14th April 2014, 13:46   #282
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

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Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar View Post
I own Ninja 650 which is only 8 months old, clocked 6500 KM on it. And I am moving to Bonneville once I get good price of my Ninja 650, which is on sell on olx pune as well on team-bhp classified Yesterday 3rd test ride of bonny confirmed that bonny is more comfortable than Ninja 650, back to back ride. Just get down from Ninja and within minute I was riding Bonny.
Wow, Now I remember these points from one PM you sent me not long ago. N650 was never even there as a consideration for me personally as due to their nature of style (sports bikes)

Now iam curious and will certainly take a T/R of N650 and post my views here

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar View Post
Also Ninja need's more gear shifting compare to bonny
+1 to this point. With a pillion at 60kmph onwards, Bonnie just takes off even if in top gear (5th gear) and at 80kmph with a pillion in 5th gear it does almost a wheelie

I tried dropping speeds till 40kmph in 5th gear with no knocking to engine. A little below the knocking starts....

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar View Post
So what is good in Ninja ? well, when in traffic you can zip it fast by snake riding while in bonny you cant do it
Pawan, trust me. Bonnie can do that with equal aplomb. Infact, I fell in love with Bonnie for this very reason.

I can dive between two moving objects on road and come out at great speeds and with utmost precision due to its short rake and brilliant road holding capability

This capability was one of the primary factor in my decision making process

I think you will related to what iam saying after buying the Bonnie..

Quote:
Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
Bonney has a 360 deg, firing which means both cylinders rise and fall together with alternate cylinders firing. Its a Parrallel Twin and not a Flat Twin (which fires at 180 degree)
Ram, just a query. Any idea why did Triumph gave a 360 Degree firing to Bonnie's cyclinders whilst the Thrux fires at 270 degrees?

I know that 270 degrees firing results in better torque thereby better accelaration

Just curious to know why this disparity between these models when the engines are identical

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
And like you said, its capable of being ripped when required - enough to be able to generally keep up with sportier bikes (before people start quoting me track timings)
Nice way to avoid heated debate from Ninja 650 lovers
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Old 14th April 2014, 13:54   #283
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

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Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
Thanks for the accessories prices btw - I also had the brochure but with POA written against accessories.
Axe77, the brochure which I have attached also has POA written
against accessories. Got the pricing of the few interesting things from the Triumph people Vivek and Roald.

Ebonho, your comments are too good

Mods - please excuse as I forgot to multi-quote.

Cheers
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Old 14th April 2014, 15:28   #284
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Default re: Triumph Bonneville: My "Black Bruiser" gets ARROW'ed !!!

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post

Ram, just a query. Any idea why did Triumph gave a 360 Degree firing to Bonnie's cyclinders whilst the Thrux fires at 270 degrees?

I know that 270 degrees firing results in better torque thereby better accelaration

Just curious to know why this disparity between these models when the engines are identical
Avi, I will have to take you to the history of development of the "modern Bonneville" to answer your question.

As you know the Original Bonneville and the T120 was introduced in 1959 (The year I was born as well and many others like Michael Jackson, Madona etc). It had three different production runs 1959 to 1983, 1985 to 1988 and the current run from 2001

One of the parameters that was set for the 2001 run was as follws:

Quote:
From the outset, Triumph's intention with the Bonneville was to produce a machine that combined the old model's timeless appeal with modern technology. From the old machine, we wanted authentic styling, a parallel twin engine and to replicate as much as practically possible the feel and sound that forged the Bonneville legend. This meant using, for example, a 360-degree crankshaft (pistons rising and falling together) and a twin-shock rear suspension system.
Unquote:

The sound of Bonneville is unique partially because, you can hear the firing of both the cylinders seperately and distinctly - its to acheive this audio signature, that modern Classics from Triumph were given the 360 deg firing.

Thruxton is 360 deg firing as well. (Relook at my post, I have edited out Thruxton, which was a mistype)

The quote is from the following link from Triumph Twinpower, which makes interesting reading.

http://www.triumphtwinpower.com/triu...villespecs.php

Though its about the 2001 model which was a Twin Carbed version, nothing much has changed except the EFI and ECU etc.

About the 2008 - the EFI version, the comment

Quote:
The Bonneville's air-cooled, parallel twin cylinder engine offers a cubic capacity of 865cc for excellent midrange torque. Both pistons rise and fall together via a 360 crankshaft firing interval so the classic character of a British twin-cylinder engine is retained, whilst twin balancer shafts provide civility and refinement. 90% of peak torque is maintained from around 2500rpm through to redline providing smooth, effortless acceleration throughout the five gears
Unquote:

Hope I have bored you enough in one post

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram
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Old 14th April 2014, 18:06   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
Whilst welcoming your bias to Bonney, please note the facts right as well.

Bonney has a 360 deg, firing which means both cylinders rise and fall together with alternate cylinders firing. Its a Parrallel Twin and not a Flat Twin (which fires at 180 degree)

Triumph Scrambler and I think the big bore one - America are firing at 270 degree - again parralle twin though

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram
Mistake from my side I mentioned 90 instead 180 and 180 instead 360. But I was always thinking 360 is one up other down, thanks for correction. Than why Ninja sounds like single while bonny makes sweet twin sound ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
You say the N650 gets unstable at high speed while sudden braking, yet touch the kind of speed mentioned - dangerous brother, be careful. Also, please do not mention that kind of speed on the forum as you may invoke our moderators ire

The above are my views, its your money and fun - choose wisely and be happy

Cheers
Problem is with the front suspension, rear are adjustable. 120 is really high speed, where bike with such capacity can't handle? It cruises beautifully without any strain at that speed. I am not arguing but I don't feel it's a high speed. Also me and wife uses full gear when on Ninja, ankle protected shoes, padded pant, padded jacket, gloves, good quality helmet etc. Other speed I mentioned wasn't on highway though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
You say the N650 gets unstable at high speed while sudden braking, yet touch the kind of speed mentioned - dangerous brother, be careful. Also, please do not mention that kind of speed on the forum as you may invoke our moderators ire

The above are my views, its your money and fun - choose wisely and be happy

Cheers
Problem is with the front suspension, rear are adjustable. Really 120 is high speed, where bike with such capacity can't handle? It cruises beautifully without any strain at that speed. I am not arguing but I don't feel it's a high speed. Also me and wife uses full gear when on Ninja, ankle protected shoes, padded pant, padded jacket, gloves, good quality helmet etc. Other speed I mentioned wasn't on highway though.

I think we are going off-topic, we should close this discussion here.

Last edited by mobike008 : 15th April 2014 at 10:32. Reason: Merging back to back posts. Please refrain. Thanks!
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